Average Age

[Injecto]

I want to know a few things, if people have the answers (hopefully with some actual evidence to backup the claims).

1 - What is the average age (lifespan, age of death) of a T1?

2 - What is the average number of years a T1 has before getting any complications related to D?

[lelggren]

On that one I don't think that a person could create an average that holds a lot of merit. Really, there are good type 1's who take excellent care of themselves, but still end up having complications and possible death from those complications. And, on the other hand, there are people who are not in the best control who can sometimes manage to live longer than one of those t1's that took good care of themselves.

So, basically, I am not sure if there really is a black and white number for an average. I think though, that most diabetics take better care of themselves than someone without the condition, so I would imagine that we would live longer :D

[notme]

I think Laura is absolutely correct. There is no average. I have had type 1 for 21 years and ten of those years I had pretty lousy ...... OK, really lousy control. So far, no complications.

Other people can do all the right things and they can have a complication much quicker.

I think you just have to do the best you can with your control and with your over all health and the rest is just up to genetics and fate.

[BlueSky]

... 1 - What is the average age (lifespan, age of death) of a T1?...
You could probably find an answer to that in insurance mortality tables. But it is not very useful. I like to think that, when it comes to treating diabetes, I am a cut above "average". Historical mortality figues also needs to be seen in the context of historical treatment methods. The prognosis for a recently diagnosed T1 diabetic is much better than it was just 30 years ago, before the advent of blood glucose testing, human insulin, analog insulin and insulin pumps. If we use these tools to look after ourselves, there is no reason why we shouldn't die of old age. Having said that, as a males, either cancer or heart disease will most likely get us. But having T1 diabetes doesn't have to have anything to do with it.

[Gary_W]

I don't know the answer to either.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you hoping to achieve if you do find an accurate answer? Such things are useful if you are trying to determine risk for insurance purposes in a particular country, but otherwise I'm not sure what good the figures would be. More than happy to learn, though :)

[PERKDOUG]

The average I found is the life shortened by 15 years. Sorry I can't get the web address to cut and paste.
Google diabetes & "life span" and brouse the results. That is where I found it.

[barbarac]

No proof to this other than a nurse told me at the Dr.'s office. She said most complications start around 15 years. As I said I don't know how true.

[PERKDOUG]

If you want an uplift showing what is possible with good management of diabetes get the book "Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution". Dr. Bernstein has had type 1 for 52 years and is healthy and going strong. He will show how to do it and you will not worry about the averages for this disease. He shows how it is possible to get way down the road without complications. You will run into his name everywhere in the diabetes world.

[Chappo]

There is no book, resource or statistics that will give average ages.

The reason being is that people have to die for an accurate number to be given. People who are passing away now with diabetes have had diabetes through a period of care that will never be nearly as good as the future. So if I said the life expectancy was "Z Years", it would be most probably be Z x 1.5 or whatever. You can't find a current life expectancy of a diabetic.

You can't guage any average age. It's up to how you take care of yourself.

[poodlebone]

I think Laura is absolutely correct. There is no average. I have had type 1 for 21 years and ten of those years I had pretty lousy ...... OK, really lousy control. So far, no complications.

Other people can do all the right things and they can have a complication much quicker.

I think you just have to do the best you can with your control and with your over all health and the rest is just up to genetics and fate.

I have also had Type 1 for 21 years and had awful (no) control for the first 10! I was diagnosed at age 19 and had already aged off my father's insurance despite being a full time student. No insurance, part time job, full time school. I stopped testing my BG within a couple of months of diagnosis, ignored any dietary advice I was give and ate what I always did (loads of junk, fast food) and remained on the same dose of NPH/R for the next 10 years. NPH/R in the morning, NPH only at night.

I often felt like **** but you get used to it. When I finally got insurance and waited out the 1 year pre-existing condition clause I went to a doctor. My A1c was over 15. I immediately started to make changes. I have no complications and am working hard to keep it that way.

[PERKDOUG]

Error in my above post:

DR. Bernstein has been a diabetic since 1942 at the age of 12. Therefore a diabetic for 62 years not 52. Stupid is as stupid does.

[viranth]

I don't think you can ever get an exact number to those questions, because we're all different.

The only thing we know works is exercise and eating good foods.

As I read in the diabetic magazine here in Norway, it said "You will die with diabetes, not from diabetes". I think that pretty much sums it up.

With today's treatment and proper control by the person with diabetes, you can catch potential complications early on.

Being recently diagnosed myself, this is something I think about, because it's quite scary that with poor control I can become very sick in my older years. When you're young your body can take a lot of damage, but as you get older it won't be able to take that same kind of beating.

[HelenM]

For all the reasons mentioned by others any figures cited are not very useful. There are a few long term studies of patients from particular areas or hospitals, other data is dependent upon the info written on death certificates. This varies according to country (probably state to state in the US!)

The JDFR mentions 6-7 years at one point and 12 years reduction on the same website.

Over the world the variability in the reduction of life expectancy is large :a child developing type 1 in parts of Africa has a life expectancy of less than a year on the other hand the Joslin Centre in the US has been giving out medals to people who have had type 1 for 75 years.

Another poster suggest you take a look at Dr Bernstein, he lives a very specific type of life style.
How about less controversial figures:
Monica Winn, was diagnosed in 1927, 4 years after the first use of insulin in the UK. Her parents were told that she wouldn't live beyond 14. She worked as a Red cross nurse in the war,helping in the aftermath of the bombing. She married at 24 and was told she couldn't have a child. In 1945 she had a daughter. At the age of 86 she was still looking after herself and enjoying life.
How about Francis Andrews, diagnosed in 1939. Became a consultant rheumatologist, had 6 children, 15 grandchildren and then became a priest. Another very full life.
lots of other life stories here :Welcome to Diabetes Stories (http://www.diabetes-stories.co.uk/index.asp)
(I've given this a couple of times before but it might be new to some people)

[SueM]

The same rule aplies to diabetics and none diabetics.
You live until you die.
The secret of a long life is to keep breathing :D
All you are doing injecto is worrying yourself into an early grave.
Stop worrying and enjoy life.
Look at Richard, how long has he been type 1 for?
There are many people who have been on insulin for over 70 years with no complications as an added bonus.
I'm only a beginner as only been type 1 for 43 years with no complications.
Now my uncle he is way over 70 years of age he is type 1 too and he has no complications either. He has been type 1 for nearer 50 years.

Next question.
How long is a piece of string?

[Jan B]

The average I found is the life shortened by 15 years. Sorry I can't get the web address to cut and paste.
Google diabetes & "life span" and brouse the results. That is where I found it.

This would have been my answer too.

Regarding time before complications -- I was told (soon after diagnosis) that at about the 15 year mark, complications would start. In my case, I started taking synthroid about then. Not sure if it was really diabetes related; a daily pill takes care of that for me. I don't consider it a complication, really.
At about the 20 year mark, I got high blood pressure -- again regulated. You have to consider I was an off and on smoker since age 15.
At the 25 year mark (a little over 40 yrs old), I started getting arthritis . . . but I have a grandpa and mom who have it (grandpa - osteo at at age 45, and mom with RA beginning at age 65; neither of which have diabetes).

Now at the 29 year mark, my quality of life is good and I don't think my "complications" are entirely diabetes related.

I also agree with what the others who posted have said. I like to say I have a hardy system to take care of the other part of my system that went haywire w/Type 1.

The way you take care of yourself matters a LOT, but it's not always the determining factor. Life just isn't that easy. For example, some smokers live into their 90s, and others don't. Some people survive cancer and some don't.

[Jan B]

P.S.
Attitude, relaxation techniques, balance in life (friends, family, work, alone time, spiritual time) ALL contribute to longevity, whether diabetic or not.

[shiftzor]

P.S.
Attitude, relaxation techniques, balance in life (friends, family, work, alone time, spiritual time) ALL contribute to longevity, whether diabetic or not.

Personally I think environmental factors have a big effect as well. It’s difficult as well because diabetes is diagnosed at different ages, a man who’s 90 diagnosed with diabetes is going to have a shorter life span than a person diagnosed at 2 years old. The only variable you have any control over is your blood glucose level. Don’t worry death comes to us all, some sooner than others ;).

[Lloyd]

Richard157 has had it for 62 years, and they knew very little about it when he was young. "Don't eat sugar" was all he was told.

-Lloyd

[PERKDOUG]

I think we are missing the point of why Injecto asked the question about life expectancy. He wants to know how serious diabetes is to make a value judgement regarding how much to change his lifestyle. Giving up 15 years should focus the mind. If the average was say 2 years, he might elect to trade the 2 years for low effort in diabetes control in exchange for the great pleasure of unrestricted food consumption. Which means eat all you want and cover with insulin, as many diabetics do.

[shiftzor]

I think we are missing the point of why Injecto asked the question about life expectancy. He wants to know how serious diabetes is to make a value judgement regarding how much to change his lifestyle. Giving up 15 years should focus the mind. If the average was say 2 years, he might elect to trade the 2 years for low effort in diabetes control in exchange for the great pleasure of unrestricted food consumption. Which means eat all you want and cover with insulin, as many diabetics do.

I fully believe that you can eat all you want and still have a good standard deviation and A1c. There are many examples of them here and have led long lives. Type1s aren’t all that restricted assuming they can remain in control; there are obvious foods that we avoid simply because we cannot stay in control while eating them such as eating fatty foods like fish and chips.

[Gary_W]

I think we are missing the point of why Injecto asked the question about life expectancy. He wants to know how serious diabetes is to make a value judgement regarding how much to change his lifestyle. Giving up 15 years should focus the mind. If the average was say 2 years, he might elect to trade the 2 years for low effort in diabetes control in exchange for the great pleasure of unrestricted food consumption. Which means eat all you want and cover with insulin, as many diabetics do.

From this thread so far, we actually don't know why Injecto asked the question; your assumption as to his reasons may or may not be correct.

And, as many others have pointed out, putting a figure of 15 years (or any other) on this is meaningless as the treatment / monitoring / potential education level are all much higher these days.

Finally, there is a big difference between injecting to cover the carbs you eat and eating all you want. As long as you know your body and are sensible with portion sizes, using insulin in this way makes sense as far as I can see.

Gary

[Tiger Lily]

I want to know a few things, if people have the answers (hopefully with some actual evidence to backup the claims).

1 - What is the average age (lifespan, age of death) of a T1?

2 - What is the average number of years a T1 has before getting any complications related to D?


Even when insulin is injected regularly, type 1 diabetes usually results in a drastic reduction in the quality of life and shortens the average life span by 15 years.
Diabetes in Canada - Chapter 1: Diabetes (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/dic-dac2/english/11chap1_e.html)

having seen that statement, my next question is WHICH type 1 diabetics are they referring to? those who were diagnosed before bg testing and the analogue insulin's were available??

Long-term complications of type 1 diabetes develop gradually. The earlier you develop diabetes — and the less controlled your blood sugar — the higher the risk of complications. Eventually, diabetes complications may be disabling or even life-threatening.

Type 1 diabetes: Complications - MayoClinic.com (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/type-1-diabetes/DS00329/DSECTION=complications)

at least this link is honest enough to indicate that the risk of complications depends on the bg control.

[IrishJoe]

How long is a piece of string?

very small, string theroy leads us to belive that everything is made of little strings that vibrate. So if they are inside the bits that make up sub atomic particle they must be tiny!!!

[BlueSky]

... 2 - What is the average number of years a T1 has before getting any complications related to D?
A previous endo of mine (this is going back 10 years) maintains that it is all about getting into good habits. After I had been T1 for 20 years (with no complcations) he told me that in his experience, if people can get through the first 20 years without complications, they most probably won't be a problem. Suitable habits are have been formed, and you will will most likely live to a ripe old age without complications being much of an issue.

Thinking about the endgame so early in life is not fun. So make getting through the first 20 years without complications your goal. It is very achievable. ;)

[Dewey]

Attitude, relaxation techniques, balance in life (friends, family, work, alone time, spiritual time) ALL contribute to longevity, whether diabetic or not.
Honestly, I think this is a large part of why folks do or don't do well in life. Though we can't control some aspects (i.e. outside stresses, illnesses, etc.), we CAN control how we care for ourselves, how we view things & how we deal with the cards handed to us. If we lead a life where the outlook is negative, I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that we'll be way worse off than those who view things in a more positive light (i.e. those who view illnesses as a "bump in the road," etc.).

Personally I think environmental factors have a big effect as well. It’s difficult as well because diabetes is diagnosed at different ages, a man who’s 90 diagnosed with diabetes is going to have a shorter life span than a person diagnosed at 2 years old. The only variable you have any control over is your blood glucose level. Don’t worry death comes to us all, some sooner than others ;).
Environmental factors definitely do play a role in multiple ways...but I believe this also rings true for anyone and their quality of life & of health, regardless of what affliction they may or may not have.

I just don't think there's a clear, definitive answer for the questions asked. We're so different & individual, and there are NO guarantees one way or the other. We could live clean, healthy lives & get hit by a bus tomorrow - we're just Not promised anything, but all we can do is try our best.

[Ailsa]

I agree with the outlook of the others above.
42 years for me with no complications.
Iwas told a year after diagnosis that complications could be expected after 15 years. Keep in mind that was in 1967!
We had no meters & no idea what our bgs were then.
If they are still saying 15 years they are way out if date given the improvements in treatment
Also a lot of statistics are not done for T1s only. They lump us all together with T2 s many of whom are non compliant or have complicatiosn at diagnosis.

[Nifr]

Injecto - This is a question that I have struggled with since I was diagnosed with diabetes. How long can I expect to live a normal life? It's also a question that made me very depressed for months and months.

I still don't know the answer, and as I read through the responses, my own conclusions are verified - it all depends. For me, this leads to more depressing thoughts because my "luck", in general, is not good. I'll likely be one of those people who works diligently to control my bg and end up with a litany of complications in 10 or 15 years.

These thoughts can eat me alive if I let them. I have a 7 year old son, and I want to make it so that I can see what becomes of his life. The thought that I won't scares the living daylights out of me, but I've learned (finally) to stay away from that place. I hope we all stay away from that place.

[Jan B]

From Jennifer: For me, this leads to more depressing thoughts because my "luck", in general, is not good. I'll likely be one of those people who works diligently to control my bg and end up with a litany of complications in 10 or 15 years.

Jennifer,

You could say I have "complications", but even so, my life is still very good. I have a bit of heart disease, low functioning thyroid (no big deal), and RA in my hands and wrists, for which I have found a good treatment, and way to manage it. When I first heard about potential complications years ago, it sounded much worse than what I actually experience.

I was also called "snakebit" (bad luck) as a young woman. One little example -- I had a motorcycle accident that tore up my foot, but today I just have a nice scar and can walk fine. Today, I don't feel unlucky or snakebit. I really believe that if you keep positive, everything is better all the way around. I know it's been said a lot, but there are a lot worse diseases we could be dealing with.

[Cormac_Doyle]

Although there are no guarantees ... The likelyhood of suffering any medical complications of Diabetes corresponds directly with how good your BG control is.

There are many steps you can take, on your own and in conjunction with your Endo/GP to control your BG.

1. Diet & Exercise work wonders (this comming from a very sedentary desk jockey who eats all sorts of **** when I'm in a blue funk)

2. medications can really help ... if you are on insulin, MDI or a pump are both eminently preferably to one or two basal doses of Lantus or similar. If you do not need insulin, then treatment with Metformin and/or "Lizard Juice" (Byetta) can be very successful at maintaining good BGs.

Remember that the most important point is that YOU are in control ... not your doctor.

If you test often enough (get a CGMS if possible), you should aim to keep your Average (24hr / 48hr) bg level between 5.0 and 5.5mmol/dl (multiply those numbers by 18 to get g/dl) - if you are only using finger prick ... test 30 minutes before eating and 2 hours after eating (at least 6 readings per day) for one week and average the figures to determine your basal BG.

this level of tight control is best ... your doctor may actually try to suggest that you should keep this figure between 6-7 to avoid the possiblity of having a hypo ... but be aware that this approach WILL shorten your lifespan.

[RobiJo]

I had my first complications after 22 years of D. The first 10-12 years my control was great. My complications were my eyes. One year the eye doc said, all looks good, the next year "it looks like a train wreck back there." After a TON of laser and a vitrectomy in each my eyes are now "stable." There has been no further damage or leaking during the last year. Not sure if that means I can claim "no complications" or not.

Really though, given the technology and knowledge available now days to arm yourself with it would be hard to come up with a good answer for either of your questions. It's really in your own hands for the most part, and maintaining records and appointments (eyes, protein in urine, etc.) to catch early what may just be inevitable. How long can your good control keep that at bay? I doubt really anyone knows.

[SunniD]

I believe the question was what is the average lifespan of a T1
person with diabetes. In my training for an Advanced Diabetes Educator in Canada, it lists all people with diabetes together.

An average person's lifespan is approximately 82 yrs. With our modern day treatments and longer living people with diabetes, we have now climbed to approximately 72 yrs. There are people breaking that age as well so that's great to hear. Perhaps it will climb higher yet. I plan on living at least that long<smile>.

SunniD

[Nifr]

Jan B - Thanks for your comments, I admittedly struggle with keeping myself in a good place. I'm learning to keep things in perspective and I'm much better off than I was even a year ago.

Maybe Injecto isn't struggling with the issues I had, but that question leads me to a bad place. And I hope he's not there or anyone else. Didn't mean to take the thread off track...

[Injecto]

Thanks for so many thoughtful responses. I've read every one and obviously I know the many basics, eat well, test often, inject insulin, and live your life....but as a great worrier and constant thinker (I just can NOT shut off my mind ever), scenarios and predictions are always bouncing around in my head, and play about a 75% roll in how I am on a daily basis (I know, not good).

Two lines however struck me instantly.

Injecto - This is a question that I have struggled with since I was diagnosed with diabetes. How long can I expect to live a normal life? It's also a question that made me very depressed for months and months.

This is main thought that goes through my mind daily (I'd bet more than once an hour, even in my sleep, while watching movies, etc....). You hit the nail on the head with what I think.

....Though we can't control some aspects (i.e. outside stresses, illnesses, etc.), we CAN control how we care for ourselves, how we view things & how we deal with the cards handed to us..

If only I could believe the highlited part. Some people are blessed with the amazing ability to alter/control how they view things but there are many who can't, and I just can not change how I view things (hence lots of my trouble). I wish it would be that easy. The worst part is that during the summer months I'm better because I can "do" outdoor things I like and keep my mind better.

[Gary_W]

Thanks for so many thoughtful responses. I've read every one and obviously I know the many basics, eat well, test often, inject insulin, and live your life....but as a great worrier and constant thinker (I just can NOT shut off my mind ever), scenarios and predictions are always bouncing around in my head, and play about a 75% roll in how I am on a daily basis (I know, not good).

Two lines however struck me instantly.



This is main thought that goes through my mind daily (I'd bet more than once an hour, even in my sleep, while watching movies, etc....). You hit the nail on the head with what I think.



If only I could believe the highlited part. Some people are blessed with the amazing ability to alter/control how they view things but there are many who can't, and I just can not change how I view things (hence lots of my trouble). I wish it would be that easy. The worst part is that during the summer months I'm better because I can "do" outdoor things I like and keep my mind better.

Getting your mind in the right place so as not to worry is difficult. Especially as the mood-enhancing effects of hyperglycemia will bring out the 'glass half empty' side of most people.

Have you ever read any books on NLP (Neuro-linguistic programming)? You may find them interesting and potentially useful to you. Whilst (IMO) NLP has claims put by it that cannot all be backed up there are certainly aspects of it that can be highly beneficial in terms of communication, confidence and general outlook on the world. It crosses the odd boundry with cognitive behaviour therapy, which may also be worth looking into if your thoughts are turning to long-term outcomes on an hourly basis.

One of the central points of NLP is that everything you think / know is only a construction in your head; a model of the world as opposed to actual reality. Our behaviour is controlled by reference to this model, and if the model is distorted or unhelpful in a particular way then it can obviously cause problems. Part of NLP is learning how to re-make certain models so as you can change behaviour that is limiting or destructive. It is a concious choice to think differently about certain things.

My own personal experience with NLP hasn't gone that far; I have just stolen the bits relating to communication and rapport and I use them daily. They work. I found the behaviour changing techniques interesting in principal, but haven't done them in anger so cannot vouch for their effectiveness. As they are similar techniques to those used to treat many phobias then there may well be something in it :) I found it quite liberating just to read theories on how we construct our thoughts and view the world through filters of our own construction. Everything is tainted by our own pre-conceived ideas and ditching those that are unhelpful is one thing that may be of use to you?

Gary

[Subby]

I like to be very practical about these things.

I know that if I take care of myself and my BG I have a good chance to hit the "normal" diabetic lifespan of maybe a few years shorter than normal (but, getting better all the time, and I aim to be above the norm in my control).

I'm not a greedy person and the chances I have for a good life are pretty generous, in my book.

I also know that I might be hit by a bus tomorrow.

I also know that people are struggling with diseases that may well take them out next month/next year. I could get one of those diseases anytime.

How should I try and feel about all three scenarios? In each case, worrying about "how long I have" is the most impractical thing to do - in the sense that it's anti-living at all. Imagine spending the next five years worrying about only living to seventy, and then getting spattered by a bus! - Or worse, living to a ripe old age, but a miserable, ungrateful b4stard all the way!

That's not living, whether you live til tomorrow or live til your 90. Fears are understandable but of you feel worrying about something exerts some positive influence or control over it, if your fears tell you they are valid, it's a masochistic lie. You need to challenge those thoughts and feelings. Overly worrying will just make you miserable and die quicker from the complication of stress.

[Jan B]

I like to be very practical about these things.

I know that if I take care of myself and my BG I have a good chance to hit the "normal" diabetic lifespan of maybe a few years shorter than normal (but, getting better all the time, and I aim to be above the norm in my control).

I'm not a greedy person and the chances I have for a good life are pretty generous, in my book.

I also know that I might be hit by a bus tomorrow.

I also know that people are struggling with diseases that may well take them out next month/next year. I could get one of those diseases anytime.

How should I try and feel about all three scenarios? In each case, worrying about "how long I have" is the most impractical thing to do - in the sense that it's anti-living at all. Imagine spending the next five years worrying about only living to seventy, and then getting spattered by a bus! - Or worse, living to a ripe old age, but a miserable, ungrateful b4stard all the way!

That's not living, whether you live til tomorrow or live til your 90. Fears are understandable but of you feel worrying about something exerts some positive influence or control over it, if your fears tell you they are valid, it's a masochistic lie. You need to challenge those thoughts and feelings. Overly worrying will just make you miserable and die quicker from the complication of stress.

Very well said Subby. This is the kind of talk that is most encouraging to me, and hopefully many others.

[Subby]

I should say, too, that it's not that I havn't been there, I have struggled with feeling morbid over "how long I have" at times myself. The main reason it got that bad for me during my twenties was I went some years without getting properly checked up. When I started getting aches and pains in my kidneys I thought "this is it", I'm stuffed. I couldn't even face going to the GP, I was sure that it was going to be the real D day.

When I got up the guts and dragged myself to the local GP, then got tests, it turned out they were just dehydrated because I wasn't drinking enough water! (really painful, that).

I felt cheated because I didn't feel much relief because I had felt so fatalistic for so long. I was numb. I remember feeling cheated of feeling relieved, cheated of some instant happiness for my guts in facing finally it, for some months afterwards, even though from then on I've pretty much stayed up to date with my blood tests etc.

But you know, looking back a few years now and I can see it did relieve me, just slowly and behind my back. Those negative voices need to be allowed to fade away: we need to fight them for sure, but in the end they just need to become irrelevant with the actions of your life. I'm trying to say you probably won't win an "Argument" with this voice/feeling. You are better off doing the things to prove it wrong (ie, living, facing your fears, etc) until the negative voice becomes a forgotten sound in the background.

[Nifr]

Gary, Subby, Jan B - Thank you for your outlooks on this subject. I agree with most everything you have said. Getting to those places, I've found, is quite difficult.

Gary, I am particularly interested in your NLP approach. I've read some about positive "self-talk" - I'm sure there is some better term for it, but it seems similar to what you're talking about. And while I find these concepts interesting, I've never quite figured out how to actually do it. I'm not saying any of this to be argumentative, but how do you conciously decide to think one way or another? Because as far as I'm concerned, I'm not "choosing" to worry or be depressed about "how long I have" - I have no clue how or where these thoughts are generated. Do the books you refer to go into any detail about this?

I'd like to think I live my life in reality, so attempting to paint a rosy picture of something that is not or might not be true seems like I'm being untrue to myself. Is the positive self-talk process similar to the DLP you're referring to? And if so, how does one get past the thought of basically lying to yourself?

Injecto, I appreciate your honesty as I thought I might be the only person who had these thoughts. Right now, I find myself in an okay place with the whole thing. How I got here? I so wish I could tell you.

[Gangrel]

It's all about personality. There are many folks on here with anxiety problems. Whether they were present before they got diabetes, or they developed afterwards, it's a hard combo to deal with.

There are those who sometimes worry, but don't spend much time worrying about lifespan, etc.

And there are those of us (I put myself in this camp) who's natural personality is to be pretty laid back aboug ALL things, not just diabetes. I don't worry about how long I will live, or if I may get complications when I'm 70. I mostly worry about the beer in front of me, or if I'm going to make the next catch in centrefield......

How do I get this way? I have no idea. Same as people who tend to worry more.

We are all different, and sadly mostly none of us will, or can change nature. I have come to realize through here, and other facets of my life that I cannot "force" someone to releax and smell the roses..... I can only be there when they start freaking out about the roses, and try to guide them back to some kind of middle ground.

[Subby]

Gary, I am particularly interested in your NLP approach. I've read some about positive "self-talk" - I'm sure there is some better term for it, but it seems similar to what you're talking about. And while I find these concepts interesting, I've never quite figured out how to actually do it.
---
I'd like to think I live my life in reality, so attempting to paint a rosy picture of something that is not or might not be true seems like I'm being untrue to myself. Is the positive self-talk process similar to the DLP you're referring to? And if so, how does one get past the thought of basically lying to yourself?


I have this problem with NLP, Positive Thinking, etc myself. I think it does depend on personality to a degree as to whether you will be happy consciously modifying your beliefs by effort of wrote or effort of will.

I am someone who is always searching for the truth and very uncomfortable with the idea of "lying" to myself (although I see forced positive thinking not so much a lie as a different, less natural interpreation of reality - if I am thinking other things).

If I am trying to get out of the dumps, my path is more to be ruthlessly truthful with myself, admit I feel this way and that, and then be truthful as to how realistic it is in the wider context. Being absolutely pragmatic you will see the uselessness of overly worrying, now THAT is a truth that is hard to argue with. Reminding yourself of this doesn't solve things, but it is a catalyst to get on with other more positive activities that will flow on to your mental state, if sustained.

We are all different, and sadly mostly none of us will, or can change nature. I have come to realize through here, and other facets of my life that I cannot "force" someone to releax and smell the roses..... I can only be there when they start freaking out about the roses, and try to guide them back to some kind of middle ground.

Gangrel, I agree with most of your sentiment, except this idea of someone's "nature" being unchangeable and being that which makes us fearful or brave, accepting or rejecting. Sure we have strengths and weaknesses that are unlikely to significantly change. But people are completely capable of adapting better to their situation than they have before - even if there's a precedent of years of denial or fearfulness. There are many paths and possible ways to do so.


Going to extremes now: action is a powerful way to force the hand of your existential angst. I would challenge anyone who is morbidly depressed about getting a few years knocked off their life expectancy, to spend a week visiting the terminal cancer ward of your local hospital, or go to a third world country with famine, disease and hardship a part of everyday life. Or any number of other activities that may make you start thinking you're not that badly off and really should start enjoying the half that is in your glass. Shake yourself out of your comfort zone with some good hard "reality" of what really going on out there for many people, and it is very likely you'll get an attitude adjustment.

[MJM]

There's only one way to live life in my opinion, and that is to always have a positive attitude. I think if you do, it will extend your life by a good number of years. No one knows what path life will lay down for us, whether diabetic or not. I see you have learned to avoid negative thoughts which is brilliant. Life is generally difficult for everyone, diabetic or non diabetic. It's up to us to make our own 'luck' and being positive will go a long way in seeing it's 'good' luck. I wish you well Jenifer and if you need help people here will see you through with lots of support.

[Eddy]

I like to be very practical about these things.


Hear, hear.


worrying about "how long I have" is the most impractical thing to do - in the sense that it's anti-living at all. Imagine spending the next five years worrying about only living to seventy, and then getting spattered by a bus! - Or worse, living to a ripe old age, but a miserable, ungrateful b4stard all the way!

That's not living, whether you live til tomorrow or live til your 90.


Indeed. Interestingly, for the longest time, I couldn't imagine life past thirty. I just felt that I'd never make it that far. (We'll know for certain in late December. ;))

I was diagnosed a bit shy of 28.5. Could it be that, deep down, I somehow knew that things had to change?


I should say, too, that it's not that I havn't been there, I have struggled with feeling morbid over "how long I have" at times myself. The main reason it got that bad for me during my twenties was I went some years without getting properly checked up. When I started getting aches and pains in my kidneys I thought "this is it", I'm stuffed. I couldn't even face going to the GP, I was sure that it was going to be the real D day.


Deja vu.


I am someone who is always searching for the truth and very uncomfortable with the idea of "lying" to myself (although I see forced positive thinking not so much a lie as a different, less natural interpreation of reality - if I am thinking other things).


Good call.


I would challenge anyone who is morbidly depressed about getting a few years knocked off their life expectancy, to spend a week visiting the terminal cancer ward of your local hospital, or go to a third world country with famine, disease and hardship a part of everyday life. Or any number of other activities that may make you start thinking you're not that badly off and really should start enjoying the half that is in your glass. Shake yourself out of your comfort zone with some good hard "reality" of what really going on out there for many people, and it is very likely you'll get an attitude adjustment.


Bang on.

Finally, as long as we're on the death topic, I'll ramble a bit:

I'm not keen on having a funeral. Anyone who cares about me will show it while I'm alive. I don't want to be any more burden when I'm gone. Dispose of the body responsibly, do whatever one needs to do to adjust, and savor the good times...

...which necessarily means having some good times along the way. :D

Whatever the quantity may end up being, why not try for the best quality possible? Sitting around with a thumb up a place where a thumb doesn't belong just doesn't buy too many cookies.

Yes, I admit that I was a bit freaked when first diagnosed. Already showing signs of potential complications, I was worried. My first sub-20 plunge -- which was a year and a few days ago -- right scared the you-know-what out of me. But some good labs, improved health, and pontification have helped.

And sometimes a "close call" tells one something about oneself: I didn't know if I'd make it through that first wicked drop. I had to fight to stay awake. As I had my doubts, I didn't regret anything that I had -- or had not -- done. My thoughts were: "I'd sure miss an awful lot of people. I'm not ready yet."

I told some friends and family members afterward that I wasn't ready to die yet. The response? "Then you won't." It's working so far...

...and I'm having some <insert expletive of choice> good times along the way. :D

If life is as precious as many people like to claim, let's make the most of it.

[Gary_W]

I have this problem with NLP, Positive Thinking, etc myself. I think it does depend on personality to a degree as to whether you will be happy consciously modifying your beliefs by effort of wrote or effort of will.

I am someone who is always searching for the truth and very uncomfortable with the idea of "lying" to myself (although I see forced positive thinking not so much a lie as a different, less natural interpreation of reality - if I am thinking other things).

If I am trying to get out of the dumps, my path is more to be ruthlessly truthful with myself, admit I feel this way and that, and then be truthful as to how realistic it is in the wider context. Being absolutely pragmatic you will see the uselessness of overly worrying, now THAT is a truth that is hard to argue with. Reminding yourself of this doesn't solve things, but it is a catalyst to get on with other more positive activities that will flow on to your mental state, if sustained.





I agree that lying to yourself is not useful, and trying to tell yourself something that you don't believe is also not going to help. Neither is burying your head in the sand.

As stated earlier, the bits I've used most of NLP have been the communication styles as opposed to the behaviour modification so I'm ill qualified to flesh out the bones of this too much. The behaviour change parts that I have read have been helpful insomuch as they point out that our perception of the world is created entirely in our own heads and that you can choose to change that perception. When we get a stimulous from the outside world, we don't typically think through every aspect of what has just happened. If we trully thought through absolutely everything without prejudice and prior knowledge we would get nothing done and we would constantly re-invent the wheel. So we take the stimulous, refer it to our mental map and decide how we feel about it based upon what we already believe to be true. We just compare, digest, feel / act and move on (or not). The NLP techniques / Cognitive behavioural therapy techniques seem to be based around altering the bit that you 'already know', because what you 'already know' may be incorrect and / or unhelpful. But as you 'know' it, you react and your perspective is skewed.

It is just like a phobia. A phobia is just an inappropriate response to an outside stimulous. NLP etc aim to modify 'what you know' so that you learn a different automatic response to the stimulous that is more helpful.

Jeniffer - There are loads of books on the subject, and you could do worse than spending a few dollars to see if the concepts sound feasable to you.

My own perspective on the 'age of death' thing is this.... Before I had diabetes, I was unaware of when I will die. I know that I will, but I did not spend any time worrying about it. It is hopefully a long way off, and concern for this moment is unhelpful. Research shows that stress is a factor in many diseases that will increase the chance that this event is sooner rather than later, so worrying about death is actually counter-productive.

Now I have diabetes, I am in exactly the same state. Statistics are meaningless as there is no data based upon current trends. I eat better these days and control my weight far better than I would have without diabetes. It is likely that one cancels out the other. If it doesn't, worrying about the fact will only make it worse and as the thing I'm hoping for is a long and happy life then worrying will only make it shorter and less happy as worry is not compatible with happiness. Logic alone dictates that I should not worry about this as I can do nothing to change my life expectancy beyond taking care of myself (which I do) and I know that worry shortens this timescale.

So that's me :)

Gary

[cheryl]

I have been diabetic for 17 years. First time I was told at about 14 years old when I was already 2 years into diabetes if I kept up with the rate I was going by the time I was 25 I would have retinopathy, and all that, by the time I hit my 30's my kidneys would start failing and forget having children. If i kept up with the rate I was going at 14 years old (a1c's in the 12's), I would never be able to carry full term or even ruin my reproductive organs....

Here is a news flash about my life. Did I take her seriously at 14 NO. I remained rebellious. Oh yea I was also gonna be in and out of the hospital from severe lows to DKA. Never did I ever go to the hospital for neither. Remained between 9-12 a1c wise as a teenager.

The one thing that did happen was my first pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage. But after that I had four very healthy boys. NO complications, all went very or pretty much smoothly mind you the first three good pregnancies the a1cs' were up there....

I got to the age of 25 no retinopathy. But then again after having the kids the a1c's were in the 8's so lower then the first 7 years.

Now I am 29, kidneys are functioning like i never even had diabetes, nor abused the body, nothing. I am not 30 yet, I don't know. I know I heard from someone on another forum if you make it the first 25 years without severe complications, then you probably won't have any severe one's.......

Can't answer that one, hadn't had it 25 years yet. Don't know what the future holds for me. But I heeded to my warning of making this a big part of my life when I was wickwacking back in 06 from bg's ranging from 40-500.....knew I had to change.

So I became my own advocate. Or my own doctor. I take care of me. I learned and reaserched on my own. I am now with an a1c of 6.4, I refuse to go to low, just to have the perfect a1c, right now, I am figuring out how to stay level. With all that I have been thru I aim for level, once I can fine tune being level, I will focus on lower a1c's but not at the rate that it consumes me like it used to. I have a family and a lot of other responsibility....

So all and all, I think diabetes is a YMMV thing, it might or might not kill ya, and it might or might not cause complications....

I think the main goal is avoid stress....I am trying very hard not to get too stressed, I am failing misearably....which I know will be the death of me....

Lead a less stressful life, but that for some is easier said then done.

cheryl

[mcgriff]

At my most recent visit I too heard the average life expectancy is reduced by 12 years. I feel we are in a new generation of treatment and education so someone that tends to their D as well as possible...who knows? All we can do is do our best and not worry about checking out early. To a degree my life span is not in m control.

[Mich]

When I was diagnosed in January of 1960, I was unfortunate enough (kid ears hear a lot) to overhear the doctor telling my mom I would probably live to be about 40. At the time I thought that stunk. In addition to getting used to being a diabetic and a teenager, I fretted about never seeing grandchildren, etc.

When I was in my early 40's, a friend of mine who is a doc was tired of hearing me discuss the issue (Was I almost out of time? I didn't feel like it.) and sent me to his old endocrinology professor, Peter Forsham at the University of California, San Francisco. At the time, Dr Forsham was about 65. He had been diagnosed in 1921, just as insulin became available and was one of the first to use it. For the first 50 years of his diabetes, he had NO METER! He guessed.

He had made his life business to find out about diabetes and with a twinkle in his eye, explained that I was nowhere near the end of my life. He taught me some good ways to handle daily diabetes, and a few that made me laugh, like injecting through my clothes in a pinch. I ended up visiting him about every six months for years, just to talk about how we each viewed our lives with diabetes. Though he is now gone, he was my hero. By example, he removed my doubts about having a shortened life and taught me to laugh at the predicament of being diabetic.

I think this board, and groups where you can talk to other diabetics of all ages will do the same for anyone who has doubts. It's well worth it to find a way to talk about your fears with others and learn to use a little "gallows humor" to lighten things up. It's an attitude adjustment that is available if you seek it. In my opinion, that alone will add years to your life. The other thing of course, is WE NOW HAVE METERS :T

I've enjoyed reading this group of posts. There have been some excellent suggestions.

Mich

[Nifr]

Being absolutely pragmatic you will see the uselessness of overly worrying, now THAT is a truth that is hard to argue with.

This really hit me smack on the head. I'm not sure I've ever heard this so eloquently stated. Since I suck so bad at it, I've now made it my goal to work on being more pragmatic. Thank you for this. :)

[Joanne Stawicki]

I want to know a few things, if people have the answers (hopefully with some actual evidence to backup the claims).

1 - What is the average age (lifespan, age of death) of a T1?

2 - What is the average number of years a T1 has before getting any complications related to D?
I can't reply on #1. But #2 has EVERYTHING to do with your control. The more your BGs are in the "normal" range, generally the longer you will stave off complications or avoid them altogether until the #'s of years that I don't know comes up.
You should consider a subscription to Diabetes Forecast. It's a great resource for info...