The Real World

[Hopenopus]

A recent thread about Work and Diabetes stirs me to try to get my brain working long enough to put this into words. I don't know if this is meant to be answer, opinion or just ranting. I do know something about this subject and that's the first time I've been able to say that since joining this Forum.
Perry Mason does not exist in the real world. Miracle cures and miracle doctors don't either. What I read here lately goes from those who have control of their Diabetes to the point of celebration to others who are looking for a closet big enough for all of us to hide in. Are we included in the " Don't ask Don't tell " rule? I have'nt even got to what I wanted to say and I'm not going to. Once again I must end a post with " I hate this."

Jim

[LancetChick]

I actually love it when people celebrate or get excited on this board, because it means they've accomplished something, however small it may be in the grand scheme of things. I don't see why you shouldn't be celebrating your own achievements..... I'd love to hear about those too! And if you haven't achieved anything lately, I hope you'll suck it up and ask for help anyway, since I'm pretty sure your frustration is skewing your perception of people. I have good control of my diabetes, and I got it from boards like this, despite "knowing it all" before reading the boards. Give me one good reason why you shouldn't have your own triumphs to celebrate.

[LancetChick]

Oops, I just read the thread you were referring to, and I think I may have totally misinterpreted your post. I don't feel at all like I need to keep my disease under wraps, but then I've never encountered any problems with making it known. Explaining things to people who don't understand this disease has worked for me every single time. Maybe I'm just very lucky.

[Hopenopus]

I am too dumb to have Diabetes. You don't know how long it took me to see that BS stood for blood sugar and not something else. We must hide our candy. Perhaps as a show of solidarity we should hide our candy together. We can trade candy with each other in a exchange of culture. Your closet or mine? Jim

[shiftzor]

While diabetes management may require intelligence, I don’t see you as lacking any ;) Firstly you are smart enough to post on this forum and secondly I personally don't define intelligence as knowing acronyms. If your bg is getting you down, ask for ideas on how to improve it, as you will feel soo much better when your bg is in range. There is no shame in that, I ask for help as much as the next person. I didn't magically wake up one day with an A1c of 6.2. If not then read these books, if I can understand them then you can. We should face our fears and problems, no sense in hiding as an untamed D will only come back to bite you.

Using Insulin by John Walsh

Think like a pancreas – A Practical Guide to Managing Diabetes with Insulin by Gary Scheiner

[DanG]

Perry Mason does not exist in the real world. Miracle cures and miracle doctors don't either. What I read here lately goes from those who have control of their Diabetes to the point of celebration to others who are looking for a closet big enough for all of us to hide in. Are we included in the " Don't ask Don't tell " rule? I have'nt even got to what I wanted to say and I'm not going to. Once again I must end a post with " I hate this."

Hey, JIm - I'm with you on this.
I have found a closet big enough for me to hide in - not to celebrate.
I was recently speaking to another person at work who said her brothers and father were both diabetic. I am curious to know about what she knows/thinks about diabetes - but I ain't goin' there. Diabetes is not a topic of discussion for me in the work place. It is a closet issue, pure and simple. If I am blind, I cannot work there. I don't want to find out that if I am diabetic I don't have a job there. So, I keep in the closet about this stuff. The boss' wife may know and probably the boss as well, maybe - as they manage the health care stuff and perhaps have read the insurance claims and application forms - I don't know, I won't ask. The closest I came to telling my friend who got me into the company was when one late afternoon he was standing behind me telling me what to do on the computer and I was so low and zoned, I couldn't even click the mouse button. Go grab a juice and was 100% 10 minutes later. He came back the next day and said I should check things out - I merely referred to it as low blood suger - I'm still in the closet... sorta...

Go ahead Jim - I wanna hear what you wanna say - whatever it was that you didn't get to say the other day when you started this post.

As to Perry Mason - the last post in the Work and Diabetes thread was posted by pegasus, I believe. He was making the point that we must stand for our "rights" but I don't think I ever can or ever will - Perry Mason is for people with money. While I do not complain about money, I certainly don't have money to pay for someone to do something for me in a court of law. Courts of law are for people with money to take more money for themselves - no thanks Perry Mason. The closet for me is just fine.

[pegasus]

There are all kinds of closets. Hi Jim, Dan.

Jim--I am completely sympathetic to how difficult writing your thoughts and feelings seems to be. Being on this site is the first time in 40 years living with diabetes that I can "talk" to fellow diabetics--and the only way I could start doing it was anonymously. While I've become more "public" with friends in the last dozen years, I could never imagine going into a room--a "support group"--where I'd have a real name and face and talk about the kind of stuff I've talked about here. And even listen without squirming to some of the stuff I've read here, because it'd be so frightening. With the encouragement of friends I've gradually been doing things like testing and (prepump) injecting in public, but it took a looooooonnnngg time.

So I for one would really really be interested in your response to the other thread--or with whatever else you're trying to say. However you want to say it--opinion, rant, stream of consciousness ... doesn't matter how, just that maybe you can give it a shot.

To reply to some of what I think you were suggesting: When you say "Perry Mason does not exist in the real world" in response to the thread about work--and Dan, I see your support for what Jim seems to be starting to say--I am also completely sympathetic. In that thread about work and diabetes, someone had a question about her specific circumstances; she asked what her rights were.

Then we got into the question of trying to actually make use of those rights. Two *very* different things.

I work freelance for the most part, sometimes in my clients' offices, sometimes in my own, and I've worked for labor rights organizations, so I've seen what employers are capable of. I am the *last* person in the world to suggest that anyone should routinely or readily make visible private information for their employer's--or supervisor's, or co-workers (even friends')--eyes. There's no way of knowing how it might be used.

That said ...

We have a 40-hour workweek, with time and a half for overtime, and generally have weekends as a result. Women got the vote. We have occupational safety and health laws. We have a (woefully inadequate) minimum wage. We have civil rights laws that make discrimination based on race a whole lot harder.

And many people have lived better and more fulfilled lives because of these things.

These things weren't accomplished by "Perry Mason"s with money. A lot of individuals who had been hurt got together. Black people faced hoses; workers faced armed guards; women were divorced without property or rights--or sometimes their children. And as a result there is help out there to try and enforce these things--and the ADA we were discussing on the other thread. "Perry Mason" may not exist, but there actually are knowledgeable people in organizations designed for that purpose. (Clearly some of them are here on this forum, given all the deep and thorough information Jenn got.)

Is every attempt successful? Is any of it risk free? Of course not. Never has been. Never will be. This is not PollyannaLand, and believe me, I've never been mistaken for someone living there (more like Alice through the Looking Glass!). But people have taken risks to get these things, and others have taken risks to make them work, and others work with and for unions and nonprofits every day to keep them alive.

I'm lucky enough to know some of them. I've done a bit of it myself.

Each of us decides what risks we're able to take. I know that the steps I've taken out of my diabetes closet were some of the hardest for me. While I haven't challenged an employer around my diabetes (haven't had to), I've fought with them to get the fees we've agreed on. And that's also a risk; if I fight, I may not get more work. And they may tell others, who might not want to hire a trouble maker ;). More often than not, I've gotten some or all of what I'm owed. So far (that I know) I haven't been blacklisted anywhere. Whether I've been lucky or smart, or a bit of both, hard to know.

I've been on this forum only a few months, but I've read around a bunch of threads, and I've been so struck by the risks people take here. That some feel there's enough room for them to rant, or cry, or yeah, celebrate their latest A1c is, to me, pretty miraculous. That they know they'll get support--or debate and challenge and hopefully respect for their opinions. The longtimers here have created a remarkable place.

You started to make connections between self-exposure at work, and here, and what it all means to you. I hope you can come to feel comfortable enough here to say more about that, of what you need to. I'll bet--like Dan--there's lots of people who agree, and others who'll just want to be supportive.

(Oh, and Dan, like Jenn I'm a girl :) )

[Hopenopus]

Realities Fist used to land heavy on my door. I put a stop to that by leaving the door open. Now it lands heavy on my head. I hope there is still room in the closet. I was working for a city in North Carolina as a mechanic in a waste water treatment plant. I had my right arm inside a pump casing when a sharp edge cut me on my elbow. It became infected over night. It was bad. My arm was as big as my legs. I was scared. I'm not a wimp. I fear nothing, except spiders and bees and women. I could'nt get rid of the thought that they were going to cut my arm off. I had never known fear at that level. I would have done anything to save my arm. Modern medicine healed my arm, but I still felt bad. Next thing I know the doctor is asking me how long have I had diabetes. I don't have diabetes Doc. You do now. It has been there waiting for something to get it going and the infection in your arm was that something. So now I get to keep the arm and as a bonus they throw in a case of Finger Prickin Good Type 1 Diabetes. Now I'm being told, the infection was from a cut you got at work. Sue those suckers! I don't think that's something you can prove and I would'nt want to if I could. If I did'nt know a cut on my arm could set all of this in motion, how in the world could my employer know. Things happen that are not anyones fault. And little things that can be done to improve the quality of someones life should not have to be in writing.
Jim

[Subby]

Now I'm being told, the infection was from a cut you got at work. Sue those suckers! I don't think that's something you can prove and I would'nt want to if I could. If I did'nt know a cut on my arm could set all of this in motion, how in the world could my employer know. Things happen that are not anyones fault. And little things that can be done to improve the quality of someones life should not have to be in writing.
Jim

I'm not sure I'm following this whole issue, who told you to sue work for your cut on the arm? Are you talking about a thread here that I missed? I am interested.

Why do you think a closet is good in any way in any case? Being out of it doesn't mean getting litigation happy. Just keeping people around you in the loop and informed of your condition so that not only are YOU safer, they are safer too.

Litigation aside, sometimes being an active advocate for your needs and requesting an appropriate environment to work in, likewise is the responsible thing to do for any and all around you.

This "keep it under wraps" ideology is completely irresponsible and the sort of thing more expected of a teenager in the throes of denial, not of grown adults (which I take it you are?).

I know that sounds tough but I'm not seeing a sugar coating way to say that. It's wrong by yourself and wrong by others, period.

[Hopenopus]

" I'm not sure I'm following this whole issue " That would have been a good place to stop. To continue to comment and criticize when you don't know what is being discussed is the sort of thing more expected of a teenager and not a grown adult ( which I'm sure you wish you were ). You remind me of what I enjoyed most on my last trip to Australia, I was in Perth and you were not.

[xMenace]

People discriminate but Mr. D doesn't. He mercilessly leads you into a life of status quo only to pull the rug out from under you and laugh as you lay writhing on the floor. I cruised just fine for 19 years. Problems were something old people had to deal with. I was doing fine. I needed no help. *wham* "You need to get a whole bunch of laser. We need to kill most of the perpheral vision in your eyes so you won't go blind. Now please sit still so I can get to my next victim." *wham* "Do you know where you are? What's your name? What date is it? Do you like cherries?" *wham* "I'd like to attach a $7k computer to you." ? "No it won't make any decisions. You need to learn how to use it. You'll need to test at least 6 times a day. Insulin can kill you you know." *wham* "I can't see well enough to drive. Can you please come and get us?"

At some point in the journey the walls fall down and the path becomes clear. You become battle-hardened and you really don't give a **** about who's watching or what they are saying. The minefield remains.

[Subby]

" I'm not sure I'm following this whole issue " That would have been a good place to stop. To continue to comment and criticize when you don't know what is being discussed is the sort of thing more expected of a teenager and not a grown adult ( which I'm sure you wish you were ). You remind me of what I enjoyed most on my last trip to Australia, I was in Perth and you were not.

I'm sorry I obviously offended you, but even so, that's a bizarre response.

[Gangrel]

I'm sorry I obviously offended you, but even so, that's a bizarre response.

I agree. It seems someone is trying to wax poetic with every post.........



To get back to the subject, I don't see why anyone feels the need to "hide in the closet". As others have said, I'd rather people know I'm diabetic, so if I, say, passed out from having a hypo they might perhaps save me?? rather then have them assume I'm just sleeping at my desk...........

[Jan B]

I don't have any qualms with others knowing I have diabetes. I don't remember ever feeling uncomfortable about it. It's simply a part of me and if others can't accept it, I don't want them in my life . . . period.

I think a lot of the reasons for people feeling they need to hide has to do with the way they were reared, and the life experiences behind them. I believe some people are embarrased to be sick, or to have health issues. Personally, I don't see having a medical condition as something to be ashamed of. I also don't believe I should be flaunting it, or ask for anything special, other than what is needed for my safety.

In the case of diabetes, "don't ask, don't tell" is dangerous. I'd rather keep my health and dignity rather than work where I am not accepted or appreciated.

There are always going to be people who don't accept or like us. It's their problem, not ours.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

We can't change having diabetes. The easy part stops there, because some things can't be changed even if they should be changed. However, if you believe you are right in what you are/are not trying to change, then move onward and try to make a difference.

[fgummett]

I though it went more like this:
God grant me the courage to change the things I cannot accept; the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the strength to bury the bodies of those I was forced to kill today; and the wisdom to avoid stepping on toes which may be connected to asses I may have to kiss tomorrow

[davef]

I'm sorry I obviously offended you, but even so, that's a bizarre response.

Subby,

I don't think you having anything to apologise for, you were up front about not be completetly clear as to what the issue was and asked for more information, when you said you were interested. It is a slightly cryptic post that started the thread.

In relation to being open about being diabetic, I'd be like Jan, I'm open about it, in that I neither try make a point of mentioning it or hiding it either. The people I work and socialise with know I have diabetes, I think it is safer for me and only fair to them. I think it is sad that in today's supposedly enlightened world that people feel it is necessary to hide the diabetes for fear of losing their job. It is strange that when in most societies people (rightly) accomodate people with disabilities (blindness, deafness etc.) yet it appears that people fear for their job because of having diabetes.

If people want to know about diabetes, I'll share what I have learned with DX, if they don't want to know, fine, just so long as they don't think I'm less of a person becuase of it.

[Hopenopus]

Sorry everybody. This was my screw up. Instead of entering a reply I stole someones thread and now you must go to three different places just to follow it. Subby, your response to my attack on you shows that you are more adult than I will ever be. I did'nt used to be so mean. I wonder how many carbs are in " Mad at the World. "

Jim

[Jan B]

I wonder how many carbs are in " Mad at the World. "

Jim

Now that's funny Jim! In my experience, there are no literal carbs . . . . but it could very well mess with your bg!

I'm still very curious about your feelings and experiences, and I hope you keep posting. We could all practice our skills in getting along and arguing, and explaining, etc.

I also pray for the day you can flow along w/the world instead of being mad. Friends sometimes help tremendously.

[xMenace]

I wonder how many carbs are in " Mad at the World. "

I'm nodding my head with a wry smile. I've let loose on unsuspecting members, of real and virtual families, a few times over the years. My ranting periods typically last about a month. I'm guessing about 180,000 carbs (200 per day for a month for 30 years). Periods of remorse and regret over many years or decades is an aspect of the disease that few others in this world get to experience. Don't ever expect anyone else to appreciate what we go through.

[DanG]

If people want to know about diabetes, I'll share what I have learned with DX, if they don't want to know, fine, just so long as they don't think I'm less of a person becuase of it.

davef - thanks for your informative reply under this thread - I can see a lot of my type response in what you say. I guess my response about hiding in the closet is more along lines of not broadcasting it. Plus, I don't want people to know, because it means I need to control them in their questions about my condition - do you need something to drink? endlessly when all I mean to be is silly for a moment, or something. To educate others in the nuances of diabetes is hard to accomplish, so I stay quiet about the condition that is the "disability" of my life. What's the difference? - I ask as I hear another guy at work speak about some medication he takes to keep him from being chemically imbalanced and uptight/angry more often than not - I've never seen him uptight - he is my favorite guy to yack with about whatever crudity that guys in an office can sometimes be too free to speak about. He is upfront, I can't do anything about his situation. Whereas, if I speak like that about diabetes, the questions will come on - like - did you eat too much? - do you need something to eat? - are you eating too much? - - so, I don't tell. Plus, I'm not asked. I'd rather speak about the politics du jour than some arcane medical trivia about caring for some dead pancreas.

I hope to hear more about what Jim meant to say - as you alluded to in your opening to this thread, Jim.

[pegasus]

Realities Fist used to land heavy on my door. I put a stop to that by leaving the door open. Now it lands heavy on my head. I hope there is still room in the closet. I was working for a city in North Carolina as a mechanic in a waste water treatment plant. I had my right arm inside a pump casing when a sharp edge cut me on my elbow. It became infected over night. It was bad. My arm was as big as my legs. I was scared. I'm not a wimp. I fear nothing, except spiders and bees and women. I could'nt get rid of the thought that they were going to cut my arm off. I had never known fear at that level. I would have done anything to save my arm. Modern medicine healed my arm, but I still felt bad. Next thing I know the doctor is asking me how long have I had diabetes. I don't have diabetes Doc. You do now. It has been there waiting for something to get it going and the infection in your arm was that something. So now I get to keep the arm and as a bonus they throw in a case of Finger Prickin Good Type 1 Diabetes. Now I'm being told, the infection was from a cut you got at work. Sue those suckers! I don't think that's something you can prove and I would'nt want to if I could. If I did'nt know a cut on my arm could set all of this in motion, how in the world could my employer know. Things happen that are not anyones fault. And little things that can be done to improve the quality of someones life should not have to be in writing.
Jim


God, Jim--what a ***ed up stream of events! What a pile of ^&*!@ to have happen all at once!

How long ago did all this happen? Are you still working at that place? (My uncle ran a wastewater treatment plant here in NYC, and one of my cousins is in the same industry.)

As far as what your doc said, about the infection bringing out your diabetes ... That's possible. But it's not certain.

Actually, this may be hard to hear, but ... The infection may have done you a favor. You may have been diagnosably diabetic for a long time, but not seriously symptomatic. Getting the infection got you checked out in more ways than you might otherwise. And led the docs to *discover* the diabetes that was already there. And that would have done *a lot more* damage to you if left unchecked--like with millions of Americans now. If you *had* to have it--which none of us has any choice about--better to know and have a shot at caring for yourself than to let it go until you wind up walking along one minumte and in an emergency room the next, because you passed out on the street.

My only question about the place you work is not whether your employer could forsee an infection, but whether the equipment you were working with was maintained well, and in good working order. There's no question that accidents happen, and it's honorable of you to look for what you might be responsibile for. But if the equipment wasn't up to code, in good working order, then your employer *could* have some responsibility also. Keeping equipment in good enough shape that employees aren't hurt is part of their job. And that is something that should be looked into--both for compensating you for your losses, in time and pain, and to make sure it doesn't happen to others.

And little things that can be done to improve the quality of someones life should not have to be in writing.

I think yes and no. What seem little to some aren't little to others. 10 cents an hour more sounds like a "little thing" to someone making $75 an hour, but it's *huge* to someone making $7.50 an hour. In some cultures, shaking hands when you meet someone is a sign of respect; in others it's too familiar. Should we legislate hand shaking? I don't think so--it would be good for each of us to learn social skills, how to cross cultures. But to have a safe working place? Yeah, I think some things have to be in writing.

I realize I'm going on and on in these posts ... guess you've hit a soft spot, Jim!

[davef]

davef - thanks for your informative reply under this thread - I can see a lot of my type response in what you say.

Thanks Dan. I have acutally found that a simple yet very intelligent sentence I got here on the forums goes a long way in actually helping/dealing with people who ask what to us are silly questions, but to them are concern. When asked if I can eat something, I simply reply with "I can eat anything I want, I just choose not to eat somethings". I have certainly found that having the people around me knowing I'm diabetic and has helped me, they see I'm in control and so they don't really act as diabetic police. When they are unsure about something they ask, but they now pretty much know what I do and don't eat (which is a distinction from what I can and can't eat). For example I was collecting a friend last Friday morning to go play golf, when I arrived he was making some breakfast and offered me some, he asked would you prefer brown (wholemeal) bread, rather than just assuming I couldn't eat white, not a big thing but it's was (too me) a nice way of phrasing it.

Jim,

I think it is good that you can come here to vent, talk. It is easy to feel the world is out to get you and so it's easy to be mad at the world. The important thing about the forums is that we are all in the same boat, we face similar challenges and can understand where each other is coming from, and this is why some of us (me included) choose to share our test results - the people here often understand more completely than the other people in our lives, what it takes to get a good result and how frustrating it is to have a bad result.

Do keep coming here, share the good times and the bad, there's no need for a closet when you are on the forums ;)