Fat is good for us

[DanG]

I was reading some pages from a book a friend scanned and emailed to me. It is part of an Eat Fat, Lose Fat diet program. Reading along, I find many interesting items, and then all of a sudden - glycemic index is mentioned. We all know what glycemic index is here in diabetes-land.

Here is a paragraph I found quite interesting - perhaps some others here will find this interesting also:
"Diets based on low-glycemic index foods usually overlook one important point: fats lower the glycemic index! Putting butter on a high-glycemic food like bread will lower its glycemic index, meaning that the food is absorbed more slowly into the bloodstream rather than in one quick burst. In fact, when testing foods for glycemic index, researchers found that a sugar-laden Mars bar had a lower glycemic index than cornflakes or potatoes...because the Mars bar contains lots of fat. That's why using butter as a spread, or including coconut oil in every meal, can further lower the glycemic effect of both high-glycemic foods, like potatoes, and low-glycemic foods like vegetables."

I like butter - I think I'm gonna put a stick of butter into my pepsi so I can drink more pepsi :eek:

[Subby]

Glycemic index rating is no where near the be all and end all of defining "healthy" food/carbs. Not even slightly, remotely, close. The fact that fat can slow down carb absorption and so might have an impact on GI rating, is not at all a good argument for a blanket statement to say that fat is good for us.

It might seem I am naysaying or nitpicking on your post, but I'm saying this for you too. So fat may have one unexpected benefit amongst many issues. It's just not a good justification to go promote lard based meals all day.

[DanG]

So fat may have one unexpected benefit amongst many issues. It's just not a good justification to go promote lard based meals all day.

I agree.
However, there is a bit of an over-reaction against fats. There are many many fats that are quite critical for life. Our brains primarily use fat to carry on much of the cellular communication. Our kidney and liver require fats to communicate and function well. Fats are quite instrumental in disease prevention. Much health is being compromised by the elimination of fats in our diets. A stick of butter for breakfast? - No. But certainly use butter and not margarine. Use coconut oil rather than olestra.

[ant hill]

Glycemic index rating is no where near the be all and end all of defining "healthy" food/carbs. Not even slightly, remotely, close. The fact that fat can slow down carb absorption and so might have an impact on GI rating, is not at all a good argument for a blanket statement to say that fat is good for us.

Why on this earth do health professionals promote such rubbish, If anything that they should be promoting is the heathy message. There is one thing that I know too well that fat that you eat or on yourself will slow down the other food like if you take sugar and add the fat then you have the "fast component sugar" and "the slow fat" you would have the long lasting high BG, Chocolate is a fine example. ;)

I cannot see this is healthy promotion.

[CountYourselfIn]

Putting butter on a high-glycemic food like bread will lower its glycemic index"

So replacing the cream filling in an Oreo with butter makes it a healthy snack?
:beer:
I love this forum!

[Lizzie G]

I agree.
However, there is a bit of an over-reaction against fats. There are many many fats that are quite critical for life. Our brains primarily use fat to carry on much of the cellular communication. Our kidney and liver require fats to communicate and function well. Fats are quite instrumental in disease prevention. Much health is being compromised by the elimination of fats in our diets. A stick of butter for breakfast? - No. But certainly use butter and not margarine. Use coconut oil rather than olestra.

I agree with Dan, to an extent....we do need fat in our diets, and as a diabetic with a well balanced healthy diet I do find that cooking with olive oil, or a bit of cream here and there, nuts, seeds, avocados, all tasty and nutritious sources of fats, or whatever, can totally elimintate post prandial spikes....but like anything else with diabetes is a balancing act. i dont have a taste for fast food, fries, things like that. im lucky that i love salad, i love fat free unsweetened yogurt and bananas, so i think can afford to have a fattier evening meal. i take plenty of exercise so fingers crossed that helps keep my heart healthy too; but thats me, and we're all different.

i know my mother in law and her friend who both have type 2 struggle immensely with their weight and lifestyle choices, and to tell her that a higher fat diet would be good for her would be massively counterproductive, we wouldnt be talking olive oil and avocados, we would be talking large trays of donuts, pizza, cookies, the works. now this isnt me having a dig, i adore this lady but every day is a fight for her to have the self control to make good choices and she just hates salad and basically loves anything naughty..it is really really tough for people with that palate who are overweight and have diabetes; as i have said before and will no doubt say again i think there should be a lot more psychological support available.

anyhow, bottom line, great for some people, terrible for others; i sit rigidly on the fence!!!

[mazea]

I don't know about others, but I have noticed things about fat. Small amounts of fat (31g) doesn't effect the uptake of my food. For every 10g of fat over 30g fat my food carbohydrates uptakes progressively slower. It takes me five hours of insulin to get through a 40g fat meal than the 2 hours for a normal meal. The carbohydrates releases half as much but twice as long. I try to avoid the over 31g fat meals now. It's a similar effect to alcohol.

[HelenM]

I was reading some pages from a book a friend scanned and emailed to me. It is part of an Eat Fat, Lose Fat diet program. Reading along, I find many interesting items, and then all of a sudden - glycemic index is mentioned. We all know what glycemic index is here in diabetes-land.

Here is a paragraph I found quite interesting - perhaps some others here will find this interesting also:
"Diets based on low-glycemic index foods usually overlook one important point: fats lower the glycemic index! Putting butter on a high-glycemic food like bread will lower its glycemic index, meaning that the food is absorbed more slowly into the bloodstream rather than in one quick burst. In fact, when testing foods for glycemic index, researchers found that a sugar-laden Mars bar had a lower glycemic index than cornflakes or potatoes...because the Mars bar contains lots of fat. That's why using butter as a spread, or including coconut oil in every meal, can further lower the glycemic effect of both high-glycemic foods, like potatoes, and low-glycemic foods like vegetables."

I like butter - I think I'm gonna put a stick of butter into my pepsi so I can drink more pepsi :eek:

Your book wants to push its diet so it puts up a false argument. You just have to read the FAQs from the GI index to realise that they do not recommennd the use of high saturated fat foods, whatever their GI.


Some high fat foods have a low GI. Doesn't this give a falsely favourable impression of that food?

A: Yes it does, especially if the fat is saturated fat. The GI value of potato chips or french fries is lowerthan baked potatoes. Large amounts of fat in foods tends to slow the rate of stomach emptying and therefore the rate at which foods are digested. Yet the saturated fat in these foods will contribute to a much increased risk of heart disease. It is important to look at the type of fat in foods rather than avoid it completely. Good fats are found in foods such as avocadoes, nuts and legumes while saturated fats are found in dairy products, cakes and biscuits. We'd all be better off if we left the cakes and biscuits for special occasions
FAQ (http://www.glycemicindex.com/faqprint.htm)

Some people (following Taubes) argue that fat is not a culprit in cardiovascular disease. I'm sitting here watching an operation on someone with cloggged up arteries, personally I'd rather follow the conventional medical advice on this.

[xMenace]

I'm sitting here watching an operation on someone with cloggged up arteries, personally I'd rather follow the conventional medical advice on this.

i know my mother in law and her friend who both have type 2 struggle immensely with their weight and lifestyle choices, and to tell her that a higher fat diet would be good for her would be massively counterproductive, we wouldnt be talking olive oil and avocados, we would be talking large trays of donuts, pizza, cookies, the works. now this isnt me having a dig, i adore this lady but every day is a fight for her to have the self control to make good choices and she just hates salad and basically loves anything naughty..it is really really tough for people with that palate who are overweight and have diabetes; as i have said before and will no doubt say again i think there should be a lot more psychological support available.


There's no direct evidence that fat is bad; there's only corollary evidence. Donuts, pizza, and cookies (DPC). I find this the typical situation. Fat is bad, so I eat DPC instead. But if you switched that to lettuce, carrots, and peas (LCP), they'd say they were healthy because they ate less fat. Pfft. Processed carbs are bad. Period.

[ant hill]

Pfft. Processed carbs are bad. Period.

Yes John, But for those who are fat already, Need I say any more. Good carbs and exercise will move fat. ;)

[Lizzie G]

There's no direct evidence that fat is bad; there's only corollary evidence. Donuts, pizza, and cookies (DPC). I find this the typical situation. Fat is bad, so I eat DPC instead. But if you switched that to lettuce, carrots, and peas (LCP), they'd say they were healthy because they ate less fat. Pfft. Processed carbs are bad. Period.

You are too funny. couldnt agree more. I try to stick to things that resemble what they were when they were growing in the ground or running in the hills...

[DanG]

Yes John, But for those who are fat already, Need I say any more. Good carbs and exercise will move fat. ;)

The name of the book or diet - I haven't figured out what it is, a pamplet, a book, a diet plan, I don't know - is Eat Fat, Lose Fat. I would think taking their entire argument might work.

They really like coconut oil and tropical fats. You are correct - no highly processed foods or fats - but good whole food fats are essential for living and I think the plan is trying to point that out. Therefore, some further research for those who are fat already may be warranted.

They also made the point that butter is wonderful as a fat, plus it has all sort of trace elements essential for life - I like butter.

I am thinking that the processed foods against fat are bad, the over-use of any fat is bad, the balance (as has been mentioned) is essential. Let's face it - without processing, life proceeds on the planet. When we try to make things easy, we mess things up. Eat fat.

btw, try the whole milk yoghurt, mmm wonderful. That milkfat is what makes butter and as has been said, the butter is a good fat, Lizzie. And, I shall end this post with: "Pfft. Processed carbs are bad. Period." - I love it.

[Lizzie G]

The name of the book or diet - I haven't figured out what it is, a pamplet, a book, a diet plan, I don't know - is Eat Fat, Lose Fat. I would think taking their entire argument might work.

They really like coconut oil and tropical fats. You are correct - no highly processed foods or fats - but good whole food fats are essential for living and I think the plan is trying to point that out. Therefore, some further research for those who are fat already may be warranted.

They also made the point that butter is wonderful as a fat, plus it has all sort of trace elements essential for life - I like butter.

I am thinking that the processed foods against fat are bad, the over-use of any fat is bad, the balance (as has been mentioned) is essential. Let's face it - without processing, life proceeds on the planet. When we try to make things easy, we mess things up. Eat fat.

btw, try the whole milk yoghurt, mmm wonderful. That milkfat is what makes butter and as has been said, the butter is a good fat, Lizzie. And, I shall end this post with: "Pfft. Processed carbs are bad. Period." - I love it.

i LOVE the full fat greek yogurt but only as a treat....i dont like milk so i try to get my calcium fix by using plenty of the low fat one (2% generally) where someone might normally have milk, eg in the morning with banana and raspberries - yummmmmmmmm im hungry yet again.....

[fgummett]

Some people (following Taubes) argue that fat is not a culprit in cardiovascular disease. I'm sitting here watching an operation on someone with clogged up arteries, personally I'd rather follow the conventional medical advice on this.Guilty by association is NOT the scientific method... or at least it shouldn't be! Where is the proof that the clogged arteries you are viewing are a direct result of eating fat? What kind of fat?

[CountYourselfIn]

I try to stick to things that resemble what they were when they were growing in the ground or running in the hills...

http://www.geocities.com/ladymami/mescamoose1.jpg

A rare specimen, seen in captivity in Canada's great northwest.

[Lizzie G]

http://www.geocities.com/ladymami/mescamoose1.jpg

A rare specimen, seen in captivity in Canada's great northwest.

EXACTLY. a natural specimen such as this beautiful chocolate moose is both tasty and nutritious, YUM. my brother is in BC at the moment, I will ask him to bring some back i think :D

[matingara]

i know my mother in law and her friend who both have type 2 struggle immensely with their weight and lifestyle choices, and to tell her that a higher fat diet would be good for her would be massively counterproductive, we wouldnt be talking olive oil and avocados, we would be talking large trays of donuts, pizza, cookies, the works. now this isnt me having a dig,

ummm. Donuts, pizza and cookies are not just high fat. they are industrial strength carbohydrates as well.

i think a lot of the obesity that has appeared in the last 20 years has more to do with the industrial strength doses of carbs that come in pizza and donuts and hamburgers and french fries and wraps and soft drink and chips etc etc etc.

i think Taubes talks about high fat/low carb. he certainly is not recommending high fat/high carb!!!

:)

-- Joel.

[xMenace]

Yes John, But for those who are fat already, Need I say any more. Good carbs and exercise will move fat. ;)


Peter you are not reading the posts on this forum. Those that low carb not only lose weight but their lipid panels improve and their BGs improve. And apparently all their energy and brain functionality is not sucked dry. Carbs trigger insulin and insulin triggers fat storage.

[matingara]

Peter you are not reading the posts on this forum. Those that low carb not only lose weight but their lipid panels improve and their BGs improve. And apparently all their energy and brain functionality is not sucked dry. Carbs trigger insulin and insulin triggers fat storage.

John, i know it works for me. it works for many others too. i wonder if it works for all people?

that is a big unknown to me. i suspect it would work for those of us with the feast/famine gene.

my weight has been more or less constant for over 18 months now. 76 kilos (167 pounds). 5'10". My lipids have been superb in that period for the first time since i was 30 years old. blood pressure etc great.

people at work look at me askew. they'll be sitting there chowing down on a huge salad sandwich (with NO BUTTER OF COURSE) while i will be eating half of a roast chicken. they look at me and say "how come you are only half my size when you eat like that?". it has happened. really.

:)

-- Joel.