Do you guys ever experiment on yourselves?

[mhall812]

Since I have been working out hard I need less Novalog than I used to, and I still get lows. I am really curious to see what my sugar does if I dont take any at all.

I take 34 units of levimir twice a day, so its not like my system would be without insulin...just without the bolus.

[jenb]

I have to laugh! My BG/insulin/food log is entitled "My Life as a Lab Rat". Every day seems like a big science project...so far I'd give myself a pretty good grade :D

[mhall812]

I dont even keep a log anymore. The sad thing is I have only been doing this for 2 months. I have never had a problem with high sugar yet. It is only the lows. I just check my level before and adjust according to that, not the amount of carbs I'm about to eat.

Say I work out and come home and my BG is 70. I just go ahead and eat without taking any insulin.

[Subby]

Since I have been working out hard I need less Novalog than I used to, and I still get lows. I am really curious to see what my sugar does if I dont take any at all.

I take 34 units of levimir twice a day, so its not like my system would be without insulin...just without the bolus.


I find that keeping my BGs at as reasonable levels as I can, requires that I am almost always experimenting to some degree. That said:

- I find that insulin is *all* about fine degrees for me. In your case, I'd work my bolus down, going from bolus to none is foolhardly to me, as it goes against the fact that I *am* type 1 and my body creates *no* insulin. If I was suffering really strong post meal lows that I was convinced was a conbination of radically new activity and very much too much bolus, I might go to half and observe carefully, also reducing basal.

- I find that my basal is almost *more* influential than boluses, when it comes to differing exercise levels. If I was to suddenly start working out a lot more, I'd be onto adjusting my basals in the event of lows, either away from meals or even ones with meals (too much basal will compound the bolus, whether it is under, just right, or over). If I suddenly found that my insulin therapy was just not working with a new situation, in fact the first thing to be done would be to basal test again to find a correct basal.

Something to consider is this. The lowering effect of exercise is through utilising insulin (both basal and bolus, basal obviously always present and having an effect) that is already in your system, more effectively. So yes boluses can obviously play a part, but basal insulin can respond just as much, and incorrect doses leading to lows. If you were to cut out your boluses, and keep your basals as are, and work with your food to aim for even BGs in that scenario, this is what you would be doing: feeding your now exacerbated basal insulin. It would likely be a scenario of keeping yourself "propped up" some of the day, and the theory seeming to work as you eat enough to counteract the effect of the exercise and extra action of your present basal insulin, then blowing it right out the other way through lack of bolus, when the insulin has been satiated, and the carbs suddenly become extremely excessive for the slow action of the basal.

The exception might be, if you are a very low carb eater, in which case your boluses may go from small to next to nothing, given a big overall influence on your metabolism/absorption, through the effect of repeat exercise.

My suggestion would be: reduce both basal and bolus a certain amount, observe the effect, rinse and repeat the process until you see some basic stabilisation. Then you might like to consider basal testing.

[Subby]

I dont even keep a log anymore. The sad thing is I have only been doing this for 2 months. I have never had a problem with high sugar yet. It is only the lows. I just check my level before and adjust according to that, not the amount of carbs I'm about to eat.

Say I work out and come home and my BG is 70. I just go ahead and eat without taking any insulin.

Assuming you didn't bolus just before or a few hours before your workout, this is an example where you are basically feeding just your now-working-more-than-normal basal. If you eat carbs, and don't go up at all, you are basically staving off an oncoming low. (and you are doing the right thing, in this instance)

There is nothing wrong with this in itself, it's likely to happen to some degree even if you adjust your basal dosage downwards to a "best case" scenario where you see better stability in general, slightly away from the exercise. Taking such a snack to keep your BG up during and after exercise is a tactic that often needs to be used, when taking long acting insulin (as opposed to the pump). It's just that, again, if your workouts are represent a substantial change in your overall metabolism and insulin absorption, and you are seeing lots of lows, you need to concentrate on the possible need to adjust your basal dosage, as much as your boluses.

[foxl]

I don't think of it as experimenting ... I think of it as self-management!

But yeah I definitely test for individual foods and situations. Spend a LOT on test strips ... but it is money well-invested.

[TommyC1]

Since I have been working out hard I need less Novalog than I used to, and I still get lows. I am really curious to see what my sugar does if I dont take any at all.

I take 34 units of levimir twice a day, so its not like my system would be without insulin...just without the bolus.


I find that when I'm exercising hard I need to cut back on my basal else I'm feeding the insulin all day long to keep from going low. If I cut back enough, I can bolus normaly.

And yeah, it's all one big experiment, what we do with the D.

Tommy

[Mick]

43 years of experimentation on myself and I STILL haven't gotten it right!

[notme]

That is one long experiment Mick!

I feel like an experiment daily. I feel like I never learn from my mistakes. Guess it was good that I was in the tv industry and not a scientist. I would be broke!

[lorilei]

I'm not sure if i'm relieved or terrified that I may never get it right!

[Gordonm]

Experiment all the time. I just never seem to come to the same conclusion. I ride a lot and on days where I do 50+ miles I will leave the basal at normal rates and just 1/2 bolus or sometimes not at all. I then have to eat every 30 to 40 minutes and not bolus. The CGMS has been helpful on these days. It just never seems to repeat the same. Every day is an experiment.

[cwathne]

you're all correct when you say that every day is different, however there are definitely general trends, such as more exercise = less need for insulin. I have real workouts (2+hrs) 3-5 days a week and on those days i take less insulin knowing that the regular amount will cause me to need to eat more than i would like to.

[xMenace]

43 years of experimentation on myself and I STILL haven't gotten it right!


Every day's an experiment. Today I had a lunch of only protein and fat, actually quite a rare meal. I always seem to have a few carbs in fruit and/or veggies and/or yogurt. I was 4.3mmol before eating, but I took 2 units of Novarapid anyway. I was 4.6 two hours later. It seems I need about 2 units a meal plus my carb ratio. More experimentation and detailed testing needed. Of course there's always sunspots developing or unusually high tides on days I do these things which buggers everything up :(

[AngelKitty]

I can relate to all the comments made on this thread.

Yesterday I was the Lab Rat, today I'm the Guinea Pig!

Just when you think you've got your exercise / carb ratio down pat the "proverbial spanner in the works" rears its ugly head with a surprise hypo / liver dump / spike !!!!