lantus & humalog

[DanG]

Has anyone tried this by accident or on purpose?
Live with humalog and no lantus.

I don't know what insulin an insulin pump uses, but my impression is that it is humalog?
Am I incorrect in thinking that a pump uses humalog, provided to the body via numerous very low-dose drips? If so, can a person without a pump mimic this function via numerous very small humalog injections? i.e. load a 30 unit syringe with 30 units and use it numerous times injecting 1 or 2 units every hour.

The other morning, my newly opened lantus vial broke as it fell into the sink - it drops into the sink often but this time the angle of attack was such that it broke and wasted a 90% full vial. Okay, I can cry. But I gotta move along, also. As I use both humalog and lantus until they are empty - about 40 days - I now have a 90% full humalog that I will need to waste, if an experiment such as I contemplate is not healthy. But, I am thinking it may not be bad health at all - wake a few times each night for a few units and manage during the day with humalog only. Any inputs?

[xMenace]

One of the protocols for covering basals when a pump fails is to inject Humalog every four hours for the next four hours' basals.

[Subby]

But, I am thinking it may not be bad health at all - wake a few times each night for a few units and manage during the day with humalog only. Any inputs?

Here's my reaction - lots of injections through the day, increasing your overall total dependency to within a few hours at a time, waking multiple times during the night and risking major instability if you miss a shot... none of the fine tuning benefit of a pump unless you basal test the scenario thoroughly... it all adds up to a pain in the backside proposition to me, very little benefit, with a fair whack of possible danger attached (those night time periods a particular worry. Sleeping with no more than a couple of hours basal in me? Personally, no way, no thanks, if avoidable).

[poodlebone]

I don't know what insulin an insulin pump uses, but my impression is that it is humalog?
Am I incorrect in thinking that a pump uses humalog, provided to the body via numerous very low-dose drips? If so, can a person without a pump mimic this function via numerous very small humalog injections? i.e. load a 30 unit syringe with 30 units and use it numerous times injecting 1 or 2 units every hour.

Pumps do use only short acting insulin: Humalog, Novolog or Apidra (and in cases of people with severe insulin resistance, U500 Regular insulin). But, the pumps deliver the insulin in tiny amounts multiple times per hour. You could do small injections every couple of hours but that routine will get tiring very fast. I know I'd never last a month doing it.

The other morning, my newly opened lantus vial broke as it fell into the sink - it drops into the sink often but this time the angle of attack was such that it broke and wasted a 90% full vial. Okay, I can cry. But I gotta move along, also. As I use both humalog and lantus until they are empty - about 40 days - I now have a 90% full humalog that I will need to waste, if an experiment such as I contemplate is not healthy. But, I am thinking it may not be bad health at all - wake a few times each night for a few units and manage during the day with humalog only. Any inputs?

Why would you have to waste your Humalog just because the Lantus is gone? If you get another vial of Lantus, just keep using the already open vial of Humalog. I know they say to toss it after 30 days but I have always used a vial of insulin (all kinds) until they were empty.

[owlyn]

Get yourself the disposable pens. They don't break when you drop them. Practically indestructible.

[DanG]

Get yourself the disposable pens. They don't break when you drop them. Practically indestructible.

Yes, the pen is practically indestructible, I will bet - never tried them.
However, I bet the pen system is about 3 times more expensive than the standard vial, plus I must purchase needles for the pens, or whatever. Therefore, much more destructive to my billfold. One of the manufacturers gave out a pen (no insulin) about 15 years ago and I think I finally threw it away about 2 years ago because of the small amount of important stuff - insulin in each pen vial for the cost, plus I think you needed to purchase needle tips.
Can you tell - I am a cheapskate?:o

[owlyn]

Don't know about the price. the insurance co-pays are the same, and they approve both, so the cost can't be too different or they wouldn't approve it. Regarding the tips- think of them as syringes. I bet the overall cost is the same.

[Nicci]

I know USA is different to Australia in terms of things, but my disposable pens are the same price to normal insulin vials (or so I was told, I'm on a health care card that gives me all my prescriptions at $5.20)

[poodlebone]

If you pay cash, pens/cartridges do cost a lot more. A vial is 10ml and with pens/cartridges you usually get 15ml total but it costs at least twice as much as a vial. Before I had insurance I really liked the convenience of pens but had to pay OOP. I'd buy one box of the cartridges (they were only 1.5ml/150units each cartridge at the time) and then I buy vials and use a syringe to refill the cartridges. Don't remember how many times I refilled each one but I got a lot of use out them.

[Shubert]

I've been in your situation before. I had broken a lantus vial on accident and had only the humalog left. In my case though, I only had about a week before my prescription refilled for the lantus, so I decided to just simply use the humalog and see how it went.

Overall, my BS readings were usually a little high. Not terrible, but definitely higher since the basal wasn't there. I understand your situation on the money, but avoid this situation if you can. It's doable and should only be done as a temporary solution, but doing it for a long time will eventually get at you I think.

If you are paying out of your own pocket, then yes, the pens cost more than the vials. If I remember right, the humalog pens are about 2x the cost of the humalog vials ($50 Vials & $100/box of pens), and the lantus pens are also 2x the cost of the lantus vials, but higher priced ($75 Vials & $150/box of pens). This may have changed though, so ask around.

[Subby]

It's doable and should only be done as a temporary solution, but doing it for a long time will eventually get at you I think.

I'm not trying to discount your or anyone's experience in the slightest, but the level it is "doable" is going to wildly vary between people. Such influences as residue insulin production to level of insulin resistance, could vary the practical outcome from "quite doable" to "a &$^%$ nightmare" leading to some danger.

The reason I say so is not so much for Dan because I believe he is an old hand at the game and being careful in his own way anyway, but anyone else reading and thinking about it. I'm not saying "don't do it", I'm saying be very careful and cautious as your experience may vary wildy from the next insulin dependent person, depending on various factors. This setup makes it very easy to be suddenly without insulin in the system, it's always possible for distractions and emergencies sidetrack us for awhile, as an example. For some that sudden deficiency could be extremely bad news.

[misha09]

Hi Dan,
I use both lantus and humalog. I would check out the prices, you might be surprised and the pens are great; easy, nonbreakable and (just between me and you, i reuse my needles) I'm in Chicago for the weekend and forgot my lantus (long lasting) and talked to my Dr about maybe taking multiple shots of humalog throughout the day to mimick the lantus, it's possible, just kind of a pain. Decided to have my Dr call in a script for my lantus.