Alkaline diet anyone??

[shabbie]

has anyone tried adopting an alkaline diet for good health?

[DeusXM]

No, but there's no science behind it. You can't alter your body's pH through what you eat and drink. It's just another scam that's out there that will promise magic health benefits without needing to exercise.

[shabbie]

hi Deus :)

my brother-in-law suggested making the body more alkaline, he practises as a naturopath here in the uk. his clients with even advanced cancer have been to him and beaten the cancer by making their own bodies pH neutral 7.3.

based on this evidence i recently altered my own diet to alkaline and in 4 days have changed my oral pH level from 5.0 to 6.75.

btw i'm not here to sell anything, i was just curious if anyone else had tried it ;)

[DeusXM]

he practises as a naturopath here in the uk

Doctor who couldn't qualify from medical school. No offence but there's absolutely no regulation of naturopathy in the UK which means your brother-in-law could be as qualified as in medical treatment as the kid flipping burgers in McDonalds.

There is absolutely no scientific evidence that you can alter the pH of your body through diet or that the pH of your body even has any meaningful effect, even if you could change it. Saliva samples (from which I'm assuming you are evaluating your oral pH levels) will fluctuate depending on what you've recently eaten or drunk from the residue left in your mouth but this won't have any effect on the rest of your body.

If it was physically possible to alter your pH level and beat cancer I guarantee that it wouldn't be the sole preserve of naturopaths and pharmaceutical companies would be falling over themselves to make expensive pills that would change your body's pH level.

[shabbie]

pity about the negative response here Deus :(
now i remember why i dont post here too often. :(

my brother-in-law is a very respected man in his field. i respect his advice and his experience.

ive adopted an alkaline diet and seen a 30% drop in my basal insulin in less than a week.

[Subby]

Sharon, tell us about what dietary changes lead to such a basal req drop? I really don't have an opinion on the idea of an alkaline diet, but results like that are always worth talking about, whatever the cause.

[shabbie]

thanks for your reply subby ;)

today looks like i may have to reduce my basal by a further 10%.

i started eating alkaline only foods and drinks a week ago. to get the best out of it you should eat as many foods uncooked as possible.

meat products and dairy products are prohibited due to their very acidic process (not to mention all of the stuff that goes into it during the animals life)

no root vegetables or grains.

no alcohol, coffee, chocolate, soda drinks or fermented products ie vinegar


heres what you can eat:

lots and lots of green leafy vegetables, broccoli, cabbage, spinach, watercress etc etc

lemons,limes,grapefruit
avocados
nuts but not peanuts
fresh tomatoes
bell peppers ~ all colours
fish
oils, olive, coconut, linseed, flax etc etc
sprouted grains/seed/nuts


not sure if ive forgotten anything in this list, but thats the general guidelines for now.

i also take bicarbonate of soda at bedtime (at least 4 hours after last meal), half a teaspoon in a little water and swish it around your mouth before swallowing.

the bicarb took about ten days before i noticed any difference in my pH levels, but as i was pretty acidic it would take time to neutralize.

hope that helps :)

[steamfan261]

No science, no facts, bogus tests, quackery.

[shabbie]

what a pity you won't look outside the box.

read pH miracle diet for diabetes and see for yourself.

im not selling anything here, so quit the spam sentiment please!

[GretchO]

It's very difficult to change the pH of your body through diet.

Can You Make Your pH More Alkaline?

Your body has a complex system of checks and balances to keep its pH in a normal and healthy range: 7.35 to 7.45. When your pH shifts outside this range and becomes too acidic or too alkaline, your body automatically corrects itself to bring things back to normal by:

- Increasing or decreasing respiration - When you breathe more rapidly, you blow out more carbon dioxide. This raises your pH so it becomes more alkaline and less acidic. Conversely, slowing down your breathing causes you to release less carbon dioxide, which lowers your pH making it less alkaline.
- "Mopping up" excess hydrogen ions - Neutralizing substances in the blood such as bicarbonate and hemoglobin, mop up excess hydrogen ions and prevent pH from becoming too acidic.
- Eliminating the excess - Your kidneys excrete excess acidic substances into urine to prevent pH from becoming too low. Conversely, if your pH starts to become too high or alkaline, the body uses similar tools in reverse to bring down the pH.

The bottom line: The body fights hard to keep your pH balanced. It's nearly impossible to achieve and maintain a high-alkaline pH for a prolonged period of time.

Are Urine and Saliva pH Test Strips a Good Way to measure the Body's pH?

The only way to directly measure the body's pH is by testing your blood. Testing your urine only tells the pH of your urine. Urine is naturally more acidic and has a lower pH (~6.0). Similarly, saliva test strips only measure the pH of your saliva, not the pH of your blood.

...this is the full article (it's not terribly in depth but gives an overview) Alkaline Diets and Cancer: Fact or Fiction? (http://www.brighamandwomens.org/healtheweightforwomen/special_topics/intelihealth0506.aspx?subID=submenu10)

...here's another brief article Beware of claims that you can change your blood pH (http://missourifamilies.org/features/healtharticles/health70.htm)

[shabbie]

i agree with your quote gretchen, however that article only applies to a healthy body doesnt it? when a body is continually put through stress either emotional/psychological or dietry then the body finds it cannot keep up and finally internal organs become acidic. having said that, actually its the fluid that surrounds the organs that makes us sick when it is too acidic.

today i have reduced my basal insulin another 10%, so now i am taking 40% less insulin than i was one week ago before i started this diet. bizarre? yes, but it is completely true. i shall continue to do what i do, you no doubt will continue to do what you feel works for you, and that is how it should be ;)

[Subby]

I'm putting the alkaline issue aside myself, just thinking about your basal drop. It's interesting that this diet is a change to much lower in refined carbs. And, to my eyes, looks pretty healthy in a veggie way, alkaline issue claims again aside (I just don't have the time/inclination to look into that right now).

The reason I say that is interesting is that I find really low carbing tends to put my basals up a bit (and my boluses down of course). Sharon, I hope you don't take all these comments the wrong way, I'm not trying to shoot anything down, just curious with people's experience. Do you feel that your bassal insulin might have been covering some of your food and diet in general, like the more generalised approach to insulin use commonly seen in type 2?

By the generalised approach I mean relying heavily on a basal insulin to provide general across board BG improvement, rather than fine tuning basal to cover just biological needs, and bolus to cover all food needs.

[MCS]

Alkaline diet or not if I just ate what was on the list I don't think I would need any meds. Leafy greens ok now again, but steady whoo.

They had a article about a small research group that were feed only raw veggies and nuts. In fact they were to eat 10lbs of raw veggies a day. Lots of trips to the bathroom. In any case they all saw a lowering of thier BG, Choles, and most lost weight in a short period of time.

[GretchO]

i agree with your quote gretchen, however that article only applies to a healthy body doesnt it? when a body is continually put through stress either emotional/psychological or dietry then the body finds it cannot keep up and finally internal organs become acidic. having said that, actually its the fluid that surrounds the organs that makes us sick when it is too acidic.

today i have reduced my basal insulin another 10%, so now i am taking 40% less insulin than i was one week ago before i started this diet. bizarre? yes, but it is completely true. i shall continue to do what i do, you no doubt will continue to do what you feel works for you, and that is how it should be ;)

right on to your last comment...but i'd just like to add that you're not likely changing the pH of your body by the diet you're on regardless of diabetes.

were you very low carb prior to this diet? could it be, as Subby suggests, that your basal requirement pre-diet was covering some of your dietary needs?

i'm not trying to shoot this alkaline diet down for insulin requirement issues, but I do know that scientifically it's extremely difficult to change a body's pH through diet alone, whether or not the body is healthy. the diet is clearly lowering your basal requirements but does that in turn mean it's changing the pH of your body too? i can buy the diet/basal insulin relationship, but w/out blood results showing the body's pH pre and post diet, i can't be convinced that you've changed the pH of your body and thus your insulin requirements have changed. or have i missed the point entirely?

[shabbie]

hi subby, mcs and gretchen ;)

if i was reading this thread i would wonder just those questions too :)
prior to taking up this diet i followed what i called a watchful eye on my carb intake, usually around 130 - 175g per day of what i would term low GI food choices. i have never ever subscribed to any particular food fads/diets. i always ate sensibly.
if i didnt eat anything at all my basals would remain flat with hardly any movement at all. I pump, so its easier for me to do that.
i would agree that the food i eat on this diet is much less carbs, virtually no carbs actually lol as its mostly water based! so my mealtime bolus have ceased completely.

i wish i could understand the techno stuff regarding whats happening to me, all i know is that something is happening, something that is reducing my basal insulin requirements by 40% as of today. oh and i lost 4 pounds this last week too (not toilet dashing though lol)

my brother-in-law (JB) reads a daily log of my progress and is a great support, he hasnt suggested this diet as a way to get famous or anything, he is a quiet unassumiing man, and quite 'on the ball' regarding the more holistic approaches to good health. he says there are a lot of parallels here with chinese medicine.

:)

[shabbie]

.......
i'm not trying to shoot this alkaline diet down for insulin requirement issues, but I do know that scientifically it's extremely difficult to change a body's pH through diet alone, whether or not the body is healthy. the diet is clearly lowering your basal requirements but does that in turn mean it's changing the pH of your body too? i can buy the diet/basal insulin relationship, but w/out blood results showing the body's pH pre and post diet, i can't be convinced that you've changed the pH of your body and thus your insulin requirements have changed. or have i missed the point entirely?

just realised i hadnt answered some of your question ;)

apparently the way it works is that in a normal body operates at pH neutral 7.3.
the cells of the body are surrounded by fluid which supports them and will be whatever pH is natural for that cell/organ.

the pancreas for instance is naturally an alkaline organ, it should be surrounded by alkaline fluid. but because we have become diabetic our pancreas is surrounded by acidic fluid which means the organ is unable to function efficently.

just suppose that if by adopting a more alkaline input (food/drinks) we are able to alter that balance and the fluid becomes alkaline again, could there be the possiblity of the islets becoming active again??

the jury is still out on whether this is happening to me ;) all i know is i'm using less insulin.

[genie86333]

Ok, I'm not shooting down your ideas because I don't know what is going on inside your body...but what I want to know is why you think that this is due to changing the Ph balance & not from the lowering of carbs? (because as you said you were eating 130-175 grams/day - which, although it's a lot less than much of society today eats, it's more than some of us eat in a week & now you're eating things that are "mostly water.")

[DCaplinger]

Wow. I'm not even sure I should jump in on this. I can't believe how negative some of the replies have been on this, however there are logical reasons why her pH has increased because of this diet. It's actually very simple... she's detoxifying.

If she's stopped eating meat and processed foods, then the load of junk that is in our average diet has been removed as well. She's eating green leafy veggies, which are high in phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals, and are much better for the body than processed foods. Her diet DID cause her pH to raise, but not because it's an alkaline diet. It raised her pH because her overall wellness has increased. This is also evident in the lowering need for insulin, which is also because of her wellness and diet.

Our bodies are constantly trying to reach a state of neutral homeostasis. An acidic body cannot do so, and is prone to infection and disease. pH is effected by many factors. There are ways to naturally turn your pH more alkaline, but I will agree, it's not possible through diet alone. However, changing your diet is a good place to begin.

Do not be so quick to criticize someone who comes here to make a comment or seek suggestions. While some of you are so dead set against the idea of raising your pH as a way of being healthier, there are some of us, including myself, who do believe it can be done naturally. My doctors agree with me on that.

In the United States, naturopathy is an area of science. The doctors that practice it locally here are MD's. They are required to be MD's or DO's by state law. They are not quacks. They have the same medical training as any other medical doctor. The biggest difference between them, is that a Naturopath will not typically prescribe medications as a part of their treatment plan.

[GretchO]

sorry for being skeptical but no evidence (beyond anecdotal) has been offered yet. so, if your body is constantly aiming to keep its pH betwen 7.35 and 7.45 (otherwise you'd get very ill very fast and then you'd die) how much are you actually changing your pH? i'm seriously asking because it's interesting to me. do you know what your body's pH was when it was "acidic" and what it is now (via blood test as saliva and urine tests aren't adequate)?

i'm not saying naturopathy is bad or wrong, i'd just like to see some data on this pH thing.

[DCaplinger]

Gretchen:

I don't know where you got your information regarding the usefulness of urine pH testing, but I'm afraid it isn't correct.

What Abnormal Results Mean

A high urine pH may be due to:

* Gastric suction
* Kidney failure
* Kidney tubular acidosis
* Urinary tract infection
* Vomiting

A low urine pH may be due to:

* Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (such as emphysema)
* Diabetic ketoacidosis
* Diarrhea
* Starvation

The test also may be performed to investigate:

* Alkalosis
* Interstitial nephritis
* Kidney tubular acidosis - distal
* Sepsis

Review Date: 10/22/2007
Reviewed By: Robert Mushnick, M.D., Clinical Assistant Professor, Department of Nephrology, SUNY Downstate Health Center, Brooklyn, NY. Review provided by VeriMed Healthcare Network.

Metabolic abnormalities can be tracked. As I've already said, there really isn't much to the idea of an "alkaline diet", however the benefits of healthier eating and wellness help the body reach homeostasis, which would mean the pH would be within "normal" or more alkaline numbers. You and I cannot normally test our blood pH, however labs can.

I can't offer any studies or further scientific evidence to the subject, as this isn't my argument to defend. I only jumped in to lend support to the fact that keeping our bodies more alkaline is better for our wellness. Of course, there are dangers in being too alkaline, just as there are with being too acidic, hence the constant balancing act by the body to stay neutral.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a health nut. Wait, yeah I am, but I don't take it to the extreme. I am very skeptical (as should we all be) of snakeoil remedies.

Regards,

D

[shabbie]

many thanks to all of you for posting :)
also thanks to Darian for sticking your neck out here, your intervention has been very much appreciated ;)

i have not had my blood pH levels measured at all, (british doctors wouldnt entertain spending money on non-essential tests) only home test kits for testing urine and saliva have been used.
saliva tests before dietry changes were 5.0 - 5.5
and are now 6.8 (7.3 being neutral)

i've been eating alkaline foods for the last ten days now and in the wee hours of last night i had to reduce my basals for the 3rd time in 2 days, im now pumping on a temp basal rate of 40%.

all that change in just 10 days!

i take bicarbonate soda at bedtime
lots and lots of alkaline fruits and veggies
chromium picolate
fish oils
vitamin b complex
kelp
glucosamine sulphate
vinpocitine
magnesium
zinc


magnesium zinc and chromium have been started a week ago.

i tried chromium about a year ago and didnt notice nay difference in bg's at all, but decided to take it again now to support the pancreas.

[Jonathan_R]

Actually, there have been clinical studies on this. One of which is in endojouranls.org. I have also seen the ph levels as the blood sugar rises. It would make sence then, that an alkaline diet would help fight acidosis, which is a major concern among us diabetics. If you look, you will find the science.

Here is a list of foods and there approximate ph. US FDA/CFSAN - Approximate pH of Foods and Food Products (http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/lacf-phs.html) The goal with the diet is 80/20. 80% alkaline and 20% acid. I would caution though, not to go to far and end up with alkadosis.

[tiny]

Hello all, I am new to this forum thing. A little infor about me is I was diagnosed pre diabetic 3 years ago. My doctor put me on the low glycemic index diet nearly 3 years ago and I have followed it as close as I can (with some cheats here and there) I have not had an eppisode in almost 2.5 years, were my blood surgar drops drastically, fast and I would pass out. These eppisodes would put me in bed for a day or two.

I have been reading up on this alkaline diet, and as far as I can understand it doesn't follow the low glycemic index, and it tells us to greatly reduce meat and dairy intake. Correct???

The low glycemic allows several things the alkaline does not, so if I were to change my diet to alkaline wouldn't the increase in fruits that are not on the low glycemic index mess with my surgar levels??

BTW I am not looking for weight loss either, the low glycemic diet had already been helping me lose weight.

[Jonathan_R]

The alkaline diet is more complex than that. It can be low glycemic if you want it to be. The main thing is the ph. 80% alkaline, 20% acid.

Read this: pHbalance - The pH Theory (http://phbalance.wikispaces.com/The+pH+Theory) and pHbalance - Misunderstandings (http://phbalance.wikispaces.com/Misunderstandings)

See if that helps.

[DeusXM]

I have also seen the ph levels as the blood sugar rises. It would make sence then, that an alkaline diet would help fight acidosis, which is a major concern among us diabetics.

I think you're confusing cause and symptom here.

It's a well-known fact that if the body lacks the insulin required to supply glucose to anywhere that requires energy, the body enters a metabolic state called diabetic ketoacedosis, where the body literally consumes itself.

The side-effect of this is that the blood becomes more acidic - it is not acidic blood that causes DKA.

pH levels will rise if BG rises provided of course that the BG levels are rising because of a lack of insulin.

Acedosis is NOT a concern for anyone with diabetes if they are treating their diabetes correctly. Furthermore, an alkaline diet would do nothing to prevent DKA. DKA is a metabolic problem caused by a lack of insulin, not a lack of a neutralising pH. The best case scenario you could hope for by treating DKA with an alkaline diet would be that instead of the acid overwhelming your body, you'd simply starve to death over a week or so, instead of a few days.

You really, really need to get your head around the idea that your body needs insulin and that a T1 simply cannot survive without it. I've seen your post elsewhere where you're looking into treating T1 with diet and exercise. It is not possible.

Glucose is the fuel. The muscles are the engine. Insulin is the fuel line. If you don't have insulin, you can't fuel the engine. It's basic biology. It doesn't matter what you eat, whether it's no-carb or alkaline. If you're a T1, if you don't take insulin, you WILL die, and it'll happen pretty quickly too - we're talking within 48 hours in some cases.

[AliB]

Hi Sharon. I haven't posted on here for ages but picked up your thread after searching for Alkalizing and Diabetes links.

I have followed the Diet before, but didn't stay on it. However, during the few weeks I was on it, all my Candida symptoms went away, my IBS cleared up, I lost weight and my BG levels stabilised.

I only stopped because my stomach got a bit sore, but as gut bugs don't like an alkaline environment I suspect they were getting a bit narky.

I don't subscribe to the idea that the body pH is not affected by what we eat. When body pH is mentioned, what is really being alluded to is the pH of the blood. The body will do whatever it can to maintain the right level - even leaching minerals out from other areas of the body in order to do so.

A comment was made that if the body didn't maintain its pH balance people would get very sick and die. Well, I have news for them - they do. What are most of our modern, and not so modern diseases caused by if not deficiencies?

Ok, so sometimes deficiencies are caused through gut damage and malabsorption issues (more than people realise methinks), but also through malnutrition (and believe it or not even within our trash food-laden Western diet there is plenty of that too) and if the body can't get the minerals it needs from its diet then where the heck else is it going to get them from?

Itself.

What is multiple organ failure if not the body consuming itself from the inside out?

Yes, the low carbohydrate element of the diet will undoubtedly help reduce the sugar load, but rejuvenation of Islet cells? We'll have to wait and see on that one.

It seems that many people have been able to dump their medication - and not just type 2's. Victoria Boutenko managed to reverse her 10 year-old sons' type 1 on an all-raw diet and he has never had to go on insulin. Not never.

I'm a type 1.5 on insulin and Metformin. I have been low-carbing for a while with good results. Now I am revisiting the alkalizing diet to see if I can make it work this time. There is a lot of very logical scientific argument behind it. I like logic. Give me logic and reason and common sense over the idiotic nonsensical stupidity of 'The Establishment' anytime.

My adage for anything that is out there - don't knock it till you've tried it..........if we can walk on the moon, anything is possible...........

[isis_rainbow]

Yeah, sorry, I agree...even the oxygen we breathe in and the carbon dioxide we exhale have an effect on our pH levels. I think it's more of what you're eating.

[tealas]

Certainly, it is worth a $10 roll of pH tape to check it out. We are all the ultimate evidenced based researchers here, day in and day out with all the testing we do. We are so used to checking our blood sugar levels, it is very easy to try testing your first morning urine and saliva pH levels too.

See for yourself what the relationships are between pH levels, the foods you eat, and your average blood sugar levels. You might not find anything stunning, but you also might find another aspect of diet that is as powerful as "low-carbing".