Rice

[techgirl12]

Here's a question
Rice... suppose to be high in carbs and perhaps takes longer than normal to affect blood sugar? That part i'm not quite sure about.

However, when I eat rice, it's NEVER the carbs that the box says. I've tried this 3 times within the past 3 or 4 weeks.

The first time, I went by the box (which is confusing because it's for dried not cooked). I had a pretty good size bowl of rice and I bolused for 90 or so carbs. With in the next two hours I CRASHED and had a hard time keeping my sugar up for the next hour.

The 2nd time, I weighed the rice on a scale and went by the nutrition facts that the scale gave me... however, it said 200g of carbs for what I was eating and I did not go by that... so I only bolused for 60 carbs. I again crashed within the next 2 hours, but it was a little easier to keep my sugar level up.

Today, I had about the same amount of rice and only bolused for 35 carbs. Worked perfectly.

I even checked like 4 hours later and I was at 94 so no after effect.

Perhaps I'm missing something? Or I am reading the box wrong and my scale is just way off?

Any input would be awesome!

[Subby]

Cooked or uncooked nutritional information? These are rough figures pulled from CalorieKing.com.au (http://www.calorieking.com.au) for white rice:

1 cup white rice uncooked: 160g carbs
1 cup white rice cooked: 45g carbs

[matingara]

how much does one bolus for 45g of carbs?

i have never done that before.

according to my calcs i would need an ADDITIONAL 11u of rapid to match just the 45g of carbs.

does that match anyone else's calcs???

:)

-- Joel.

[Subby]

Depends on your I:C ratio, Joel, which does vary wildly. Myself, as someone with a lot of insulin resistance and an I:C of 1:6, I would bolus 6.4 units.

The most "common" I:C ratio for a type 1 is often quoted as 1:15. That would mean 3 units for your typical type 1 without insulin resistance.

[foxl]

But then, rice is also a highly variable grain -- just among white rices, there is a huge difference in glycemic indexes, and that might be why your response is not matching the expected carb grams.

I eat Basmati, typically which is lower GI than many. Not looking forward to rice's interaction with insuin, though ...

[Subby]

But then, rice is also a highly variable grain -- just among white rices, there is a huge difference in glycemic indexes, and that might be why your response is not matching the expected carb grams.

I eat Basmati, typically which is lower GI than many. Not looking forward to rice's interaction with insuin, though ...

If you already eat it, as in it doesn't spike you to high heaven without insulin, you should find it very easy indeed to bolus for.

Rice can be extremely predictable - stick to one low GI strain of rice and one method of cooking (keep away from overcooking and sticky), there's no reason to consider it likely troublesome at all when it comes to bolusing.

Of course, like anything, it might be. Well, that's the diabetic's lot: suspect everything.

And of course, people should decide on your rice eating habits as far as carb consumption and diet goes. If you don't eat much carbs, rice obviously isn't such a great choice of food for a main. I would have maybe two heaped tablespoons, when we eat out at indian etc or have rice as a side at home, and it's barely worth bolusing for.

[CJS]

why not just eat brown rice if you eat rice at all? Isn't that supposed to be a lot better glycemically?
:)
I'm new to this whole thing but I am under the impression that it is not only carbs we are to watch but we need to choose low glycemic carbs as much as possible.

[rak1978]

I eat brown rice occasionally, and I end up low almost every time if I bolus according to how many carbs I am eating. It's interesting how different foods/carbs work with the I:C ratio. My ratio pretty much only works for non-cupboard carbs like veggies or fruit. If I eat anything else, the ratio goes out the window and it's all about guessing.

[CJS]

we're all in different boats I think. My sugar levels are never low. They're always somewhat high but tend to be stable enough. I'm all about watching sugar/carb intake and getting down to a more proper weight. I guess my situation at this point is stable and I just need to lose some weight and see if I can't keep it that way for as long as possible.

I am on metformin 850 x 2 and with that my levels are fine almost always UNLESS I don't watch what I consume. I never eat white bread or rice or anything with straight sugar anymore.

I'm sure many others here have much different challenges.
:)

[foxl]

why not just eat brown rice if you eat rice at all? Isn't that supposed to be a lot better glycemically?
:)
I'm new to this whole thing but I am under the impression that it is not only carbs we are to watch but we need to choose low glycemic carbs as much as possible.

Brown rice is not that much better, there is more inter-variety variation than brown-to-white I think!

Subby I am not eating rice, right now. A couple experiments were enough -- not worth cooking it by the half cup for family!

[Subby]

why not just eat brown rice if you eat rice at all? Isn't that supposed to be a lot better glycemically?
:)

No, not necessarily. Here are some GI values for different rices, ripped from the GI list on Mendosa's site (websearch for it).

Glutinous rice, white, cooked in rice cooker 98±7
Brown rice (China) 87±2
Sunbrown QuickTM (Rice Growers Co-op, Australia) 80±7
Jasmine Fragrant rice, white (SunRice brand, 89±4
Arborio, risotto rice, boiled (SunRice brand, 69±7
Long grain, white (Uncle Bens, Auckland, 56±7
Premium long grain, white (SunRice brand, 59±7

Some of the best choices:

Doongara, white, cooked in rice cooker 48±4
Basmati, white, boiled (Sainsbury's, UK) 43±8


I'm new to this whole thing but I am under the impression that it is not only carbs we are to watch but we need to choose low glycemic carbs as much as possible.

Yes the GI might help you pick better choices, but you need to go off the GI rating, not any assumptions about wholemeal, or brown, or anything like that. That's part of the point of GI, to cut across older assumptions about how carbs and food break down in the body and the resulting "energy release", which just turned out to be plain incorrect in many cases.

Also, the GI rating may not reflect your body at all. These figures have been arrived at by testing a (usually small) sample of non diabetics, and reducing their variety of responses, down to an average. It is very inexact. Only to be used for ideas and suggestions, in my opinion. Let your tester make the final judgement.

[Subby]

I eat brown rice occasionally, and I end up low almost every time if I bolus according to how many carbs I am eating. It's interesting how different foods/carbs work with the I:C ratio. My ratio pretty much only works for non-cupboard carbs like veggies or fruit. If I eat anything else, the ratio goes out the window and it's all about guessing.

That's pretty similar for me: but I consider myself lucky, I have a terrible memory normally - but - I seem to remember adjustments for certain foods, from my ratio. For example, I usually remember automatically to bolus about 20% less for the rice I cook, if that was the case. Or, just 4 units to this serve, or something like that.

[matingara]

*sigh* this is too hard for me. hence why i do not eat any rice in any quantity ever...

:)

[GeishaGirl]

Gods, I eat sticky rice all the time! If I use carbohydrate factoring, I never have an issue at all.

[Subby]

*sigh* this is too hard for me. hence why i do not eat any rice in any quantity ever...

:)

What's too hard? Reducing or increasing your dose ratio to different foods based on some testing experience? It's hardly rocket science, you just need to approach it the way that makes sense to you. It's nothing at all specific to rice, unless you go and buy a whole range of rice types and cook them different ways (who does that? If you do and it causes troubles - stop). Anyone might find the same need to tweak the amount they bolus, with absolutely any food on the planet that needs a bolus.

I:C ratios and carb counting is a great "base line" to start with, that you can modify when the situation requires. Set doses that are modified on the fly are just outright "in the dark" guessing, painful to try and get results with (except for a few I have heard using set doses for many, many years, who somehow have a "knack" for it).

[Cluck]

If I eat white rice and bolus for the carbs then I'll crash at 1.5 hours and be high at 4-5 hours. On the other hand, basimati rice matches well with Humalog's activity profile for me and I can bolus for carbs, not crash and not worry about a spike 4-5hours after eating.

As a Type I I tend to prefer higher GI foods as my rapid insulin works better for those. For Type IIs those low GI foods are probably better.

I think different kinds of rice will affect everyone in slightly different ways and it's important to work out how they work for you.

[RWright]

how much does one bolus for 45g of carbs?

i have never done that before.

according to my calcs i would need an ADDITIONAL 11u of rapid to match just the 45g of carbs.

does that match anyone else's calcs???

:)

-- Joel.

I would have to bolus 7.5 for 45 carbs.

[Subby]

As a Type I I tend to prefer higher GI foods as my rapid insulin works better for those. For Type IIs those low GI foods are probably better.


There's even huge variety with this, within type 1 and insulin use: you seem to be on the very fast side of things. For me, all rapids (Novo, Huma, Apridra) take quite a long time to work for me, (at 1.5 hours the action is just starting to ramp up). My bigger challenges with food is to avoid initial spikes, both from food choices (low GI, moderate to low carb and whatever my tester tells me), and from using tricks like prebolusing. Basmati works well for me too.


I think different kinds of rice will affect everyone in slightly different ways and it's important to work out how they work for you.

That's pretty much hitting the nail on the head.

[matingara]

What's too hard? Reducing or increasing your dose ratio to different foods based on some testing experience?

at the moment i am working by the "law of small numbers". i.e. small carb inputs = small bolus. if i make a % error than the % error will apply to a smaller factor - therefore leading to a smaller rise/fall in blood sugar.

i have only been using insulin for 8 months now and i have gotten to the stage where i can keep my bgl between 3.5 and 6.0 most of the time.

now, i even allow myself small indulgences, such as eating a hamburger on a piece of bread cut in half (one half on top the other on the bottom).

eating 45g of rice and bolusing 8-11u for it may be an experiment i will try one day. but i am not realy sure it is worth it.

:)

-- Joel.

[Subby]

Well, that's fair enough, and obviously your call when it comes to your life, diet, body. But what we are talking about here as far as approaches to finding a good dose, isn't "tied in" to eating 45g of rice: it can apply to any food you bolus for at all.

[Subby]

If I eat white rice and bolus for the carbs then I'll crash at 1.5 hours and be high at 4-5 hours. On the other hand, basimati rice matches well with Humalog's activity profile for me and I can bolus for carbs, not crash and not worry about a spike 4-5hours after eating.

Just one thing this makes me think of Cluck, the rice may very well be giving you a delayed reaction for the 4-5 hour mark.

But, there is the second possibility, that your crash sets off a liver dump. If it's a strong hypo you are talking about with the "crash", then that chance is pretty high. On registering low BG, your liver will then pump out glucogen, which is the equivalent to eating fast acting carbs. And often leading to a nasty spike in the next few hours.