Dentist observation on carbs ... article!

[foxl]

Tooth decay, bleeding gums may herald chronic ills
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NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Our modern dental woes have a lot do to with modern whole-body ills like heart disease and diabetes, according to the author of a review of decades' worth of studies on diet and health.

The culprit in both cases? The so-called fermentable carbohydrates forming the foundation of the modern diet, says Dr. Philippe P. Hujoel of the University of Washington School of Dentistry in Seattle. These include sugars and starchy foods that break down into sugars in the mouth, as well as tropical fruits and dried fruits.

Hujoel argues in the Journal of Dental Research that gum disease and tooth decay should be seen as "alarm bells" that signal a person is at risk of heart disease, diabetes and other chronic health problems.

In recent years, Hujoel argues, fat has replaced fermentable carbohydrates as the enemy, which has led to the promotion of heavy carbohydrate consumption-and in turn the need for dental interventions like sealant and fluoride to prevent tooth decay.

Studies have shown development of gum disease within days of a person upping their sugar intake, which then improves within weeks of a person cutting out carbs. If such high-fermentable carbohydrate diets continue, Hujoel argues, their associated chronic illnesses take hold.

"Clearly, the dental alarm bell has an extremely low threshold for activation; the response occurs in days, weeks or, at most, years, as opposed to the decades it takes for systemic (diseases) to become clinically apparent," he writes.

Hujoel calls for research to investigate the question of whether diets that are good for our teeth are also good for our overall health. If the answer is yes, he adds, "dental diseases could become increasingly regarded as the early marker of adverse lifestyle choices," and could also offer clues to understanding other systemic illnesses such as Alzheimer's disease.

SOURCE: Journal of Dental Research, July 1, 2009.

[fgummett]

Have you heard of Weston Price? Weston Price: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration; Table of Contents (http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html) He was a dentist who travelled to many indigenous communities before and while they became "Westernised"... his observations of effectively 100% healthy teeth and gums on the traditional diet followed by a descent into dental decay after adopting the "Western" diet, suggests that this is the "Canary in the Coal mine" of many chronic "Western" diseases -- including obesity, diabetes, Alzheimers etc.. which take many more years to develop.

A warning that his attitude to traditional peoples can be patronising bordering on racist at times -- a reflection of the age in which he lived more than his sincerity or professionalism -- I'd suggest.

[DeusXM]

Funny, I've never eaten low-carb in my life.

I'm 25. I've not had a single filling in my entire life. Or gum disease. Or tartar. Or toothache.

Oddly enough though, I also brush twice a day.

[DeusXM]

Oh, and you're not the only ones who can post spurious pieces of research to support your points.

The China Study - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study)

[foxl]

Funny, I've never eaten low-carb in my life.

I'm 25. I've not had a single filling in my entire life. Or gum disease. Or tartar. Or toothache.

Oddly enough though, I also brush twice a day.

"Spurious?" I do not think so! Archeologists use the presence of dental caries as evidence of grain consumption and thus of sedentary farming practices.

Genetics and prenatal nutrition also play roles in the development of caries and periodontal disease. I am glad you use good dental hygiene, but it is not the whole story, either.

[foxl]

"Spurious?" I do not think so! Archeologists use the presence of dental caries as evidence of grain consumption and thus of sedentary farming practices.

Genetics and prenatal nutrition also play roles in the development of caries and periodontal disease. I am glad you use good dental hygiene, but it is not the whole story, either.


And by the way ... this was from a peer-reviewed, high-impact journal:

The Journal of Dental Research (JDR) is a peer-reviewed scientific journal dedicated to the dissemination of new knowledge and information on all sciences relevant to dentistry and to the oral cavity and associated structures in health and disease.

HIGHLY RANKED

The JDR holds the highest Impact Factor of all dental journals publishing original research at 3.496 with a cited half-life >10 years, reflecting the influential nature of the Journal’s content. The entire archive back to 1919 is available online (available free online one year after official publication). It also has the highest Eigenfactor Score of 0.02381 in the field.

[fgummett]

Funny, I've never eaten low-carb in my life.

I'm 25. I've not had a single filling in my entire life. Or gum disease. Or tartar. Or toothache.

Oddly enough though, I also brush twice a day.I know I'll regret this -- I do already -- as you are clearly spoiling for a fight... again... first with the sarcasm then the use of emotive words like "spurious" :heeeellll

First off there is no mention of "low-carb" in this thread until your post.

Secondly... "my entire life"... you are 25! Call me in 20 years and maybe we'll talk.

Thirdly... yes! it has been well established by dentists that good oral hygiene will prevent dental caries! What I find telling is that folks on traditional diet also did not have any dental caries -- all without the benefit of tooth-brushes, paste, mouth-wash and dental floss! While we may argue about what prehistoric people ate, the fossil record is clear that there was no caries... wear yes, from eating unrefined/unprocessed food, but not decay.

Nextly you claim "I've never eaten low-carb in my life" and yet at 25 you have been a Type 1 D for 10 years -- according to your profile. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you eat freely of "sugars and starchy foods that break down into sugars in the mouth, as well as tropical fruits and dried fruits" and simply "cover" the carb gram amounts with insulin... no regard for the carb count or type of carbs you eat... just like the majority of 25 year olds out there? I put it to you that your diet is lower-carb than many of your peers... certainly lower in refined carbohydrates.

Hey... do you think maybe we can get this thread back on topic?

[fgummett]

As this thread seems to be big on post-scripts I'll add this:

OR I could take the other tack and accept what you say... that you -- one of the most vocal opponents of low-carb (here on DF) AND a Type 1 D for 10 years -- has NEVER even tried to see if cutting back on carbohydrates could have any effect -- positive or negative -- on your BG profile.

[notme]

I think it has been established that cutting back on carbs will have an impact on BG profiles. I have tried and it definitely helps keep my blood sugar on track. However, I think the high fat diet is the component that is troubling to many as it "could" lead to heart disease, weight gain (in my case this was a fact) and high cholesterol. We all have to make our own choices on higher fat diets. My endo advises against a high fat diet and has been a great advocate in letting me make choices on how to get my cholesterol down without taking medication. My choice is to avoid high fat.

The word "spurious" was not an argumentative word in my opinion. It was a descriptive word of studies in general. "spurious: outwardly similar or corresponding to something without having its genuine qualities" I think we can all agree that there are so many studies about every subject under the sun, we are all skeptical of the validity of most of them. All we can do is read the studies and apply what we believe to be true.

My husband is 59 years old. He has never low carbed a day in his life. He does not have diabetes and does not have a filling. He is only one person, but his genetics is far better than mine, when it comes to teeth. ;)

We can take every post that is made and somehow turn it into an argument about low carb vs. eating carbs, high fat vs. low fat. But, at the end of the day it is personal choice. I do believe the posts that discuss the subjects are important and give people things to think about and try along the way. Please lets keep it friendly, helpful and informative without the jabbing and arguing. People tend to not read the posts that become personal battles rather than informative.

Thank you Linda for posting this study. I tend to believe that diabetes and especially high blood sugar will bathe your teeth in sugar and ultimately cause tooth decay.

[foxl]

Nancy, I posted this because it was in line wth my (and my hygienist's, frankly HORRIFED) personal observations in recent months.

However I do not think this article was spurious, by any means.

I work adjacent to a dental school and use them for my dental care. And, I do believe in general dental medicine should be more integrated into the rest of medical practice. My dentist there always performs a complete head and neck exam ... and I am grateful!

[notme]

However I do not think this article was spurious, by any means.


I tend to agree with you Linda. However, some people will agree and some will not. We have SO many studies they become overwhelming at times. I think Deus was only using a descriptive word.

I also think we should look into dental health as a way of avoiding over-all health issues. I think it plays a big part.

[fgummett]

Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary states:

Spurious

Function: adjective

Etymology: Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin spurius false, from Latin, of illegitimate birth, from spurius, noun, bastard

1: of illegitimate birth : bastard
2: outwardly similar or corresponding to something without having its genuine qualities : false <the spurious eminence of the pop celebrity>
3 a: of falsified or erroneously attributed origin : forged b: of a deceitful nature or quality <spurious excuses>

[foxl]

spu⋅ri⋅ous  /ˈspyʊəriəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spyoor-ee-uhs] Show IPA
Use spurious in a Sentence
[/B]–adjective 1. not genuine, authentic, or true; not from the claimed, pretended, or proper source; counterfeit. [/B]

I think I provided evidence for my source.

And I do feel the use of the term was not appropriate. It was a put-down of my article, for whatever reason, Nancy.

[notme]

Seriously folks? We are going to battle a word?

I think it is time to go back to the original post and forget all of the stuff in between. ;)

[fgummett]

I also think we should look into dental health as a way of avoiding over-all health issues. I think it plays a big part.I agree 100% but would take this thought further and suggest that any food which tends to cause decay at the start of the alimentary canal may be suspected of having detrimental effects inside the body as well.

[fgummett]

Seriously folks? We are going to battle a word?

I think it is time to go back to the original post and forget all of the stuff in between. ;)Seriously Nancy... of course this is not about just the word... read Deus's post again and tell me seriously that he is not goading -- looking for a reaction Oh, and you're not the only ones who can post spurious pieces of research to support your points.... notably his post was early this morning and yet you -- as a Mod -- took no action until after I responded this afternoon -- call me paranoid if you like but you are being very defensive of his post which clearly Linda and I both took the same way.

[princesslinda]

Nancy wasn't here until just recently...I on the other hand left the thread alone, hoping against hope that maybe, just once, a thread dealing with carbs wouldn't continue to deteriorate and helpful information could be shared.

Perhaps in the future reporting a post instead of engaging in public battle of words and wills would be a better way to handle the issue. As it is, anyone interested in any of the information has to muddle through all the angry posts as well.

[notme]

Seriously Nancy... of course this is not about just the word... read Deus's post again and tell me seriously that he is not goading -- looking for a reaction ... notably his post was early this morning and yet you -- as a Mod -- took no action until after I responded this afternoon -- call me paranoid if you like but you are being very defensive of his post which clearly Linda and I both took the same way.


I, "as a Mod" try not to alter or change any post. I did not take the post that Deus made the same way you and Linda took it. I read it as an opposing post to the idea of research in general. I don't believe he was "goading" Linda, but the idea of more research that we all are subjected to daily.

Lets get back to the subject, Frank. This clearly is something that should go private between Linda and Deus and yourself, if you like. What is being posted now is of no use to the rest of the forum.

[fgummett]

Nancy wasn't here until just recently...I on the other hand left the thread alone, hoping against hope that maybe, just once, a thread dealing with carbs wouldn't continue to deteriorate and helpful information could be shared.Linda... it WAS NOT about carbs until Deus jumped in with his sarcasm and goading. I was tempted to report his posts and in hindsight maybe that would have been the better approach. I really don't want to argue here all day.

[foxl]

Perhaps in the future reporting a post instead of engaging in public battle of words and wills would be a better way to handle the issue.

And how does one do this, since there is not a report this post button, and we do not know who the mod on duty is?

Sincere question -- and thanks for leaving the thread be. I was offering info, not meaning to start something, at all!

ETA: OH nevermind -- just saw it under contact zione on the right! now I know!

[fgummett]

From my perspective the original purpose of this thread is less about "low-carb" than it is yet another indictment of the deleterious effects of our exposure to such large amounts of refined/concentrated carbohydrates over the last few decades.

I suggest that any food which tends to cause decay at the start of the alimentary canal may be suspected of having detrimental effects inside the body as well.

This is not a "low-carb" message but an "eat real whole foods" message -- unfortunately for some of us, the damage may already have been done.

[foxl]

True, Frank. That was my understanding of what the author was saying.

[Da Dog]

So being diabetic will make me "hyper-sensitive" to words related to sugar?.. who'd a thunk!

[DeusXM]

it WAS NOT about carbs until Deus jumped in with his sarcasm and goading.

This does sort of beg the question why it was posted in the carbohydrates and calories subforum. And the title, 'Dentist observation on carbs'.

Oh, and isn't this the second line in the story?

The culprit in both cases? The so-called fermentable carbohydrates forming the foundation of the modern diet, says Dr. Philippe P. Hujoel of the University of Washington School of Dentistry in Seattle. These include sugars and starchy foods that break down into sugars in the mouth, as well as tropical fruits and dried fruits.

The point I'm making is that we can all post studies and surveys done by quite reputable sources that manage to come up with massively conflicting results. You can post a survey from some big name saying that carbs are bad, I can post one from an equally big name saying that they're not a problem.

To be honest, I'm not spoiling for a fight, I'm seriously done with dealing with the low-carb issue. For some people it works, great. All I'm saying is it's not the be-all and end-all and face it, this thread is classic low-carb modus operandi, post a survey that has some involvement with carbs in an attempt to subtly push the idea that low-carb is the only way.

This is not a "low-carb" message but an "eat real whole foods" message -- unfortunately for some of us, the damage may already have been done.

No it's not, it singles out starchy carbohydrates and tropical fruits, so unless rice, potatoes, and pineapples have been reclassified, it's actually focusing on carbs. Otherwise, the real message is 'sugar causes tooth decay', a message that has been around for decades.

I don't think anyone believes eating sweets is a good diet for the body or teeth - but I guess then the real story is that something as obvious as this is now apparently newsworthy.

[foxl]

Deus, I do not understand why you are even reading and responding to my thread. For one thing, you are a Type one, and have a different condition than type 2s, that responds to different therapy. We all know YMMV.

We also all know from here and elsewhere that people respond to articles and threads that corroborate their own experiences and worldview.

Are you afriad that successful low-carbers will somehow "propagandize the world" with low-carbing, doing harm?

I even explained WHY I posted this thread, very candidly, and I still am being accused of pushing an agenda. Well ... so are you. Why do you even read stuff on low-carbing, if you are so opposed to it? Why not just skip reading it, instead of attacking the article source and the poster?

[princesslinda]

This thread is being closed at the request of the original poster.