Butter or Margarine? Lard or Vegetable/Corn/Seed Oil?

[fgummett]

There have been some interesting points raised concerning the use of different fats/oils in this thread: http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/type-2-diabetes/41940-does-cooking-food-raise.html

It seems that many take it as a confirmed fact that corn/vegetable/seed oils are "better for you"... using words like "good fats", "the right oils" etc...

I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into existence with the dawn of factory processing -- recent decades.

So it begs the question... which do you use... butter or margarine?

[dbaratta]

I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into existence with the dawn of factory processing -- recent decades.

So it begs the question... which do you use... butter or margarine?[/QUOTE]

Butter because it is real with no dehydrinated oils (can't spell) and olive oil.

[Granny Shanny]

Butter

(the message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 15 characters)

[yannah]

I use butter.

I can eat .5 peice of bread without much consquence if it is slathered in butter. (14 carbs a slice, whole grain)

in my simple mind, anything that helps me in this way, wins.
and is called, "good food"

and butter tastes good.

shrimp sauteed in butter, yum.

see what I mean?

[NoraWI]

Butter is definitely better!

[MCS]

Never liked anything other than butter. Sometimes Butter that has been diluted with Olive oil at my wifes request, but never Oleo, Marg, always leave them on the shelf at the grocery store. If I am not mistaken the fake butters were created as a high calorie food alternative for the impoverished population.


There have been some interesting points raised concerning the use of different fats/oils in this thread: http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/type-2-diabetes/41940-does-cooking-food-raise.html

It seems that many take it as a confirmed fact that corn/vegetable/seed oils are "better for you"... using words like "good fats", "the right oils" etc...

I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into existence with the dawn of factory processing -- recent decades.

So it begs the question... which do you use... butter or margarine?

[foxl]

No lard, as it is not vegetarian.

I switched from tedious old tub margarine bakc to butter (after DECADES!) for the whole fmaily, after diagnosis. I try to use FLAVORFUL oils ... olive, peanut, in judicious amounts (but sometimes fail ;) ) in cooking.

I also use flax oil cold (like for part of my salad oil) and to coat my (Dreamfields) pasta after cooking.

I try to get the natural peanut and almond butters too ... but my kids like Peter Pan, still :T

No recent lipid profiles, but my weight is still coming down ...

[MCS]

If you really want to get it up in flavor with oil, I have used Sesame Seed oil for frying veggies and coating (FOXL close your eyes) meat before grilling.

[foxl]

If you really want to get it up in flavor with oil, I have used Sesame Seed oil for frying veggies and coating (FOXL close your eyes) meat before grilling.

Oh yeah! I LOVE sesame oil.

My husband is a carnivore, by the way, MCS, and so are my four CATS!

[fgummett]

I'm relieved to see some many folks using a variety of fats/oils. Maybe it is a stretch but I could see how taking low-fat to an extreme and only selecting lean cuts, someone could find that they were getting the majority of their fat intake from a single -- and to my thinking questionable -- source like corn-oil.

If you read authors like Michael Pollan you learn that much of our food is coming from an ever-shrinking base of nutrients as agriculture/agribusiness becomes ever more industrialised: corn and soy loom large in much of what we eat, and not just from obvious sources like soy-milk and corn-oil... feedlot cattle, chickens and even farmed fish are fed on these two staples (all too often GMOs) so we are definitely losing out on variety all along our food chain and potentially losing out on vital nutrients.

While the jury is still out on much of this, I prefer to hedge my bets by eating from as many real whole food sources as possible -- true to my omnivore roots :)

[foxl]

I would love to get hold of milk -- er CREAM, BUTTER, and CHEESE, from grass-fed cattle! I bet it'd be a lot more costly, even if that one VT farm found it is actually cheaper for them to manage ....

Hey Frank you forgot the COCONUT OIL!

[MCS]

Oh yeah! I LOVE sesame oil.

My husband is a carnivore, by the way, MCS, and so are my four CATS!

This was an attempt at some early morning humor. Brain doesn't really kick in until 11:00 am though. My two cats are very fond of meat. I try to save the bones from the steaks for them to knaw on, it is good for thier teeth. The family of opossums, Mother and 3 babys living beside my clothes dryer I think it meat as well. I talk to them oftened. This is the second litter she has had there. In some way I feel privledged she has choosen our garage. We use to feed the racoons cheetos thru the back door, but had to stop when I noticed 12 of them at the same time sitting on thier butts with thier paws out strectched for a cheeto.

[fgummett]

I bet it'd be a lot more costly...You know, I have found that when I spend a little more and buy the grass-fed local-grown and organic it tastes better AND I don't need to eat so much. I have a pet theory that with industrial food lower in nutrients we need to eat greater volumes to gain the required nutrients but with richer food, our needs are satisfied sooner... so it may end up the same or even less co$t. Then if you add on the environmental savings in chemical pesticides, fertilizers and by not having to ship the food hundreds of miles, plus face-time with the local farmer so you know what you are really eating, and supporting your local economy... </soapbox>

I have heard great things about coconuts but you don't see so many here in Nova Scotia ;)

[foxl]

This was an attempt at some early morning humor. Brain doesn't really kick in until 11:00 am though. We had 3 cats, down to two, ran one over in the drive way. I BOO HOOED for 2 days, did it late at night, crushed her hip (she was 20 yrs old), feed her two lortabs, hoping this would put her down. She crawled out of the box I put her in and was laying in the drive way the next morning purring, The BOO HOOING started all over again. Had to take her to the vet to get her put down. The receptionist could hardly understand what I was saying I was BOO HOOING so bad. It was quite emotional for me. I thinking why am I writing this here?

Oh, that is SO SAD. I am a total cat devotee ... but I keep mine in. Actually built a gorgeous screened-in porch for mine ... then lost the one it was really intended for.

Back on topic ... I LIKE your sensayuma! I did feel that was what it was.

[foxl]

You know, I have found that when I spend a little more and buy the grass-fed local-grown and organic it tastes better AND I don't need to eat so much. I have a pet theory that with industrial food lower in nutrients we need to eat greater volumes to gain the required nutrients but with richer food, our needs are satisfied sooner... so it may end up the same or even less co$t. Then if you add on the environmental savings in chemical pesticides, fertilizers and by not having to ship the food hundreds of miles, plus face-time with the local farmer so you know what you are really eating, and supporting your local economy... </soapbox>

I have heard great things about coconuts but you don't see so many here in Nova Scotia ;)


I agree on the nutrients ... and Frank, you need to get some of those African Swallows to BRING you coconuts!

[Dis-N-Dat]

Butter and Olive oil here too.

[Subby]

I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into existence with the dawn of factory processing -- recent decades.


Records of the use of oils such as olive and canola (rapeseed) oil have stretched back thousands of years. Right back to ancient Roman, even Egyptian, times. Who knows how much earlier the practise went on undocumented.

I think the issue of the impact of modern day food manufacturing (including dairy and meat, as well) deserves being treated in an up front manner, rather than in this... other, way.

If it is known for a fact that grapeseed oil today is completely different to grapeseed oil in antiquity (or different in ways that matter), then please let it be known.

Now, what do people think of studies like this?

From Dietary fat, insulin sensitivity and the metabolic...[Clin Nutr. 2004] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15297079)

"Insulin sensitivity is also affected by the quality of dietary fat, independently of its effects on body weight. Epidemiological evidence and intervention studies clearly show that in humans saturated fat significantly worsen insulin-resistance, while monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids improve it through modifications in the composition of cell membranes which reflect at least in part dietary fat composition. A recent multicenter study (KANWU) has shown that shifting from a diet rich in saturated fatty acids to one rich in monounsaturated fat improves insulin sensitivity in healthy people while a moderate alpha-3 fatty acids supplementation does not affect insulin sensitivity."


Bolds mine, just to pull out the points in the typically gobbledyspeak abstract.

Just a lot of rubbish concocted by men in white suits? Erroneous? Why? Why not?

As for oils (and foods), I like a variety, and find that suits my physiology remarkably well.

[foxl]

Records of the use of oils such as olive and canola (rapeseed) oil have stretched back thousands of years. Right back to ancient Roman, even Egyptian, times. Who knows how much earlier the practise went on undocumented.

I think the issue of the impact of modern day food manufacturing (including dairy and meat, as well) deserves being treated in an up front manner, rather than in this... other, way.

If it is known for a fact that grapeseed oil today is completely different to grapeseed oil in antiquity (or different in ways that matter), then please let it be known.

Now, what do people think of studies like this?

From Dietary fat, insulin sensitivity and the metabolic...[Clin Nutr. 2004] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15297079)


Bolds mine, just to pull out the points in the typically gobbledyspeak abstract.

Just a lot of rubbish concocted by men in white suits? Erroneous? Why? Why not?

As for oils (and foods), I like a variety, and find that suits my physiology remarkably well.

Men in white suits, or women in hairnets (LOL)?

I would have to look at the methodology of the study, but having worked in a lab run by a nutritionist ... (and I am hoping it was one of the poorer ones), and knowing a convert from a PhD in nutrition, to one in biochemistry, all I can say is, well ... agendas tend to feed applied research more than basic research, and their background in methodology tends to be poorer.

[fgummett]

I think the issue of the impact of modern day food manufacturing (including dairy and meat, as well) deserves being treated in an up front manner, rather than in this... other, way.What exactly are you implying Subby..? My OP presented two sides of an argument and asked a question. Am I not entitled to an opinion? :confused:

It seems that many take it as a confirmed fact that corn/vegetable/seed oils are "better for you"... using words like "good fats", "the right oils" etc...

I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into existence with the dawn of factory processing -- recent decades.

[Subby]

I would have to look at the methodology of the study, but having worked in a lab run by a nutritionist ... (and I am hoping it was one of the poorer ones), and knowing a convert from a PhD in nutrition, to one in biochemistry, all I can say is, well ... agendas tend to feed applied research more than basic research, and their background in methodology tends to be poorer.

So you dismiss without looking further? Surprising to me.

[foxl]

So you dismiss without looking further? Surprising to me.

Not at all -- I was saying, I need to read the article!

But ... I always put up that hmmmm ... methodology? ... with applied disciplines, now.

[Subby]

What exactly are you implying Subby..? My OP presented two sides of an argument and asked a question. Am I not entitled to an opinion? :confused:

Your opinion is that these oils came into existence within recent decades?

OK then. Some people just don't stick to reality, I guess... :D

[fgummett]

Can we please not sidetrack this discussion into the relative merits of saturated vs unsaturated etc... as I'm sure you already know, it is not as straightforward as it is often portrayed: many fats/oil contain more than one of these... for example and as I've posted before, a large proportion of the fat in a steak is oleic acid -- the same as found in olive oil... yet many people associate steak with saturated fats only.

[Subby]

Not at all -- I was saying, I need to read the article!

But ... I always put up that hmmmm ... methodology? ... with applied disciplines, now.

OK, that's fair enough. In fact, I would look forward to your input on this kind of study (and similar ones). Many long words hurt my head.

An interesting thing I found about it, was that it made distinction between weight gain issues, and separate insulin resistance. As such, the usual dismissing of such studies as just carb paradigm centric (with the usual assumptions of low fat diets etc), might be sidestepped... maybe not.

[Subby]

Can we please not sidetrack this discussion into the relative merits of saturated vs unsaturated etc... as I'm sure you already know, it is not as straightforward as it is often portrayed: many fats/oil contain more than one of these... for example and as I've posted before, a large proportion of the fat in a steak is oleic acid -- the same as found in olive oil... yet many people associate steak with saturated fats only.

But that's the entire premise of your introductory post - pitting types of fats against the other! They are all going to share similarities or have differences - how do you discuss something if you can't discuss its attributes?

Why not just let us know where those overlaps occur, in this conversation here? It seems most useful information...

First, you go wildly off topic on other people's threads... then you won't allow on topic discussion in your own.

[fgummett]

Your opinion is that these oils came into existence within recent decades?

OK then. Some people just don't stick to reality, I guess... :DI specifically and consciously did NOT mention Olive Oil in this thread?
Can you please provide an unambiguous reference to Corn-Oil or Canola in use back thousands of years? Preferably one made with Genetically Modified rapeseed.

[foxl]

Subby, not sure if you have access to the full text of that article but they have many interesting things to say ...

"The main studies evaluating the effects of dietary saturated fat versus unsaturated fat on insulin sensitivity in healthy and type 2 diabetic individuals utilizing an intervention trial design are listed in Table 4.[39., 40., 41., 42., 43., 44. and 45.] In most studies, changes in dietary fat quality had no effect on insulin sensitivity; [39., 40., 41., 42. and 45. Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Champagne CM, et al. Effects of diets enriched in saturated (palmitic), monounsaturated (oleic) or trans (elaidic) fatty acids on insulin sensitivity and substrate oxidation in healthy adults. Diabetes Care 2002; 1283–88.45.] however, it is important to underline that these studies were performed in vary small groups of subjects and, generally, for a short period of time. Instead, two studies, [43. and 44.] one performed in healthy subjects and the other one in type 2 diabetic patients, obese and healthy people, show that a moderate substitution in the diet of saturated fat with unsaturated fat (monounsaturated in the study on healthy subjects and ω-6 polyunsaturated in the one on diabetic patients) is able to improve significantly insulin sensitivity."

This appears to contradict the anecdotal information of several of our posters, here. I will need to read the entire article though -- looks like it is a review or metaanalysis. It also acknowledges that weight loss positively affects IR ... which, to my thinking, if caused by eating a high-SF diet, might offset the effects of the high SF?

Lemme get back to you!

ETA: most of the studies described herein are human feeding studies, there is no actual biochemical analysis to substantiate what they are saying. They do cite some animal studies though .... need to read those too.

[jenb]

I generally use olive oil and butter, but also canola, sesame, walnut and hazelnut oil when I'm feeling creative.

Jen

[fgummett]

I apologise that this is only Wiki but anyhoo... Canola is one of two cultivars of rapeseed or Brassica campestris (Brassica napus L. and B. campestris L.). Their seeds are used to produce edible oil that is fit for human consumption because it has lower levels of erucic acid than traditional rapeseed oils and to produce livestock feed because it has reduced levels of the toxin glucosinolates. Canola was originally naturally bred from rapeseed in Canada by Keith Downey and Baldur R. Stefansson in the early 1970s, but it has a very different nutritional profile in addition to much less erucic acid. The name "canola" was derived from "Canadian oil, low acid" in 1978. A product known as LEAR (for low erucic acid rapeseed) derived from cross-breeding of multiple lines of Brassica juncea is also referred to as canola oil and is considered safe for consumption Canola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola)

Perhaps a better wording for my OP would have been "I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into much more widespread use with the dawn of factory processing" although I could suggest that was already implied by the "relying to such a great extent".

Still that hardly seems to matter when it now seems acceptable to make Ad Hominem attacks on this forum.

---

Again Corn oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_oil) The first commercial corn oil for cooking purposes was extracted in 1898 and 1899 by machinery invented by Theodore Hudnut and Benjamin Hudnut of the Hudnut Hominy Company of Terre Haute, Indiana, and called "mazoil."

[Subby]

I specifically and consciously did NOT mention Olive Oil in this thread?
Can you please provide an unambiguous reference to Corn-Oil or Canola in use back thousands of years? Preferably one made with Genetically Modified rapeseed.

Yes, I was incorrect in mentioning grapeseed, it's been a long day, a basic typo. Olive oil is most definitely a vegetable oil (along with all the other vegetable oils and seed oils you failed to mention SPECIFICALLY but used the general category).

Do you need references to that fact?

[foxl]

When you consider the length of human existence, 150,000 years? -- any historical references are probably not appropriate.

Agriculture, while prehistoric, has only been around for 8 - 10,000 years. So the oils consumed prior to that might safely be assumed to have been, for the most part, not extracted from foods.

[fgummett]

Yes, I was incorrect in mentioning grapeseed, it's been a long day, a basic typo. Olive oil is most definitely a vegetable oil (along with all the other vegetable oils and seed oils you failed to mention SPECIFICALLY but used the general category).

Do you need references to that fact?You have implied that I am being deceitful or dishonest in this thread Subby... please provide proof or back off with the personal attacks.

Of course Olive Oil has been in use for thousand of years but the fact that A vegetable oil has been in long-term use does not alter the premise of my post: asking if we are possibly now relying too exclusively on these oils as our main source of fat... MANY of which are new kids on the block.

[Subby]

I apologise that this is only Wiki but anyhoo... Canola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canola)

Perhaps a better wording for my OP would have been "I maintain that we have not evolved relying to such a great extent on these oils which only seem to have come into much more widespread use with the dawn of factory processing" although I could suggest that was already implied by the "relying to such a great extent".


That makes more sense if you had just picked out those oils that did start being used only within the last centrury or so. I am more than happy for you to clear that up! You have to remember we are not mind readers.... if you make wideranging comments, expect them to be read as such!


Still that hardly seems to matter when it now seems acceptable to make Ad Hominem attacks on this forum.

Come again? Consider your words more carefully, and you'll be more clearly understood... you're as guilty as me in not clearing this up sooner. This "ad hominem" business is as tired as last month's stale bread.

... instead of this stuff, why not educate us of this overlap of saturated and non saturated fats between the old and the new, it's in everyone's interest to know more about these things. OR, provide some reasoning behind your opinion apart from what you've said. If we've been eating olive and other pressed oils for a very long time, would that not have prepared us for more modern oils?

Are there any studies that have actually jumped out as demonstrating some evil of mono or modern oils? These are genuine questions. I am interested in your opinion, and what is behind it.

[Subby]

You have implied that I am being deceitful or dishonest in this thread Subby... please provide proof or back off with the personal attacks.

Of course Olive Oil has been in use for thousand of years but the fact that A vegetable oil has been in long-term use does not alter the premise of my post.. asking if we are possibly now relying too exclusively on these oils as our main source of fat... MANY of which are new kids on the block.

You can't have it both ways... either I am mortally attacking you, justifying your shouted remarks... or I have something of a point, that olive oil has been used for a long time and does not belong in your "last few decades" oil category.

Choose. And move on, if you can.

[fgummett]

Let me try and put this in really simple terms:

* How many people were using corn-oil as their main source of fat a century ago?
* How many are using it as their main source of fat now?
* and Where is the proof that it is healthier for us?


Subby but you have as good as called me a liar, called me peculiar, implied I am not living in reality... how much more personal does this need to get? And yes I have already reported these posts but seemingly to no avail.

Thank you for destroying this thread's credibility... was that really your intention?

[Subby]

Where did I "good as" call you a liar? My "inference" was that you were glossing over earlier uses of vegetable oils. I was, to be honest, a bit short for words that would not "set you off" seeing that you respond this way. Guess what, I failed anyway.

Peculiar, well I'm peculiar, many of my friends are peculiar... is seemed a nice way to say "inconsistent". So, I misfired there. I don't think the intent comes out to strip your soul... does it?

As for living in reality, someone who thinks olive oil was created a few decades ago, despite discussion, is not! You've changed your tune now, (by modifying your statement to "MANY" of these oils) so I'm happy to consider your opinions quite sane!

I consider you continued shying away of discussing the topic and focusing back on me, complete with these wild accusations, as much a problem as anything here. How about you stop it and use the forum for what it is intended, discussions and exchange of ideas on interesting topics. I'm the one inviting you to stay on topic on your own topic! Talk about acting a bit.... (see I can't say anything, because you'll go crying again... you really think this jump up and down stuff is worth our time?)

[fgummett]

Once again I ask that you explain I think the issue of the impact of modern day food manufacturing (including dairy and meat, as well) deserves being treated in an up front manner, rather than in this... other, way. in a way other than calling me deceitful?

[foxl]

guys .................................................. ..... :(

Can we get back on topic? It is an interesting and worthwhile poll and you gonna scare voters off!

[fgummett]

How can it be worthwhile if the premise is based on a falsehood?

[Subby]

Yep, that's a good idea, Linda. I've already convered your quoted bit in my post above Frank, so I'm just going to leave it there. I am interested in all these questions about oils, and I would like to learn more about them.

[Subby]

I guess one reason olive oil stands out for me, is that I cook a great deal with it. I'm not sure if that's a local thing or not... but it's generally either olive oil, or a bit of butter, or natural fats from meat, although I don't go out of my way to get fatty meat.

I did find that animal fats, when I increased them to a really large part of my diet, appeared to cause cravings and a tendency to over-eat those animal products - overeat is a word I use, because they seemed to create cravings, I felt like I was gorging myself, (and I was) and I was putting on weight. I've since reduced that again with better results, and find that variety is a key... but yes, mostly olive oil. I really like the flavour and quality of it.

So where olive oil fits in, with the premise of the poll, is intriguing - is it still relatively foreign or ???? (useless? damaging? taking away from "better" fats?) to the body compared to animal fats, the premise as I read it?

[fgummett]

Where did I "good as" call you a liar? My "inference" was that you were glossing over earlier uses of vegetable oils. I was, to be honest, a bit short for words that would not "set you off" seeing that you respond this way. Guess what, I failed anyway.If your intention was just to point out an error in my logic why not just say that instead of implying that I was consciously trying to mislead... seriously what would you suggest is the opposite of "an up front manner"? That is what I object to. If you offer a reasoned argument I will respond in kind but if you offer an emotive, personal characterisation of my motives expect a similar response... that is why there are supposed to be forum rules about personal attacks.

As to the overlap, the link that I provided in an earlier post states that Refined corn oil is 99% triglyceride, with proportions of approximately 59% polyunsaturated fatty acid, 24% monounsaturated fatty acid, and 13% saturated fatty acid. with bold used for emphasis.

[MCS]

I am not sure if this has any relevance to the topic. If you look into it, the reason humans are living longer and have a higher quality of life than those in the past is thru nutrition, not medical advancement. We live longer because we eat better thru research and scientific studies. Although most are not perfect we are all benefiting from this research in some manner.

[fgummett]

...the reason humans are living longer and have a higher quality of life than those in the past is thru nutrition, not medical advancement...I'd be very interested in reading an article that shows this relationship.

[MCS]

I will see what I can do. Of course I saw this on one of the many Discovery channels and again on Science channel. If I have time I will lokk

[fgummett]

There are some scientists like like Jared Diamond who maintain that in many respects we are worse off since the advent of agriculture and "civilisation".

[Subby]

If your intention was just to point out an error in my logic why not just say that instead of implying that I was consciously trying to mislead... seriously what would you suggest is the opposite of "an up front manner"?

Gosh, you are truly childish, in going on and on in this self injured, pious, monotonous way. Your interests are clearly not returning to the subject. Complain to the mods in triplicate about me calling you "childish", get it deleted, I really don't care.

YOU are the one now repeatedly accusing me of calling you a liar. YOU are the one making character attacks, NOT me. Now, seeing as you are pushing and pushing about that one particular quote, how about we use some words of your own from another thread that you used to describe your obtuse style.

They quite nicely to explain the kind of thing I meant:

I guess I was being subversive and subtly suggesting

It seems to be something you do often, with big, sweeping, generalised quotes, or inferences, or obtuse, cryptic comments. Do you think that is calling you a liar? So be it. I didn't think that myself. I don't particularly like these kinds of things at times, but I don't consider them a crime.

Now for god's sake, get over your own sense of self importance. Although I suspect you will just continue to harp on, in the aim of self destructing the thread or the line of conversation of the rather quite basic issue we were discussing.

[foxl]

There are some scientists like like Jared Diamond who maintain that in many respects we are worse off since the advent of agriculture and "civilisation".

I love Jared Diamond! He is a terrific writer.

[ShottleBop]

Subby, not sure if you have access to the full text of that article but they have many interesting things to say ...

"The main studies evaluating the effects of dietary saturated fat versus unsaturated fat on insulin sensitivity in healthy and type 2 diabetic individuals utilizing an intervention trial design are listed in Table 4.[39., 40., 41., 42., 43., 44. and 45.] In most studies, changes in dietary fat quality had no effect on insulin sensitivity; [39., 40., 41., 42. and 45. Lovejoy JC, Smith SR, Champagne CM, et al. Effects of diets enriched in saturated (palmitic), monounsaturated (oleic) or trans (elaidic) fatty acids on insulin sensitivity and substrate oxidation in healthy adults. Diabetes Care 2002; 1283–88.45.] however, it is important to underline that these studies were performed in vary small groups of subjects and, generally, for a short period of time. Instead, two studies, [43. and 44.] one performed in healthy subjects and the other one in type 2 diabetic patients, obese and healthy people, show that a moderate substitution in the diet of saturated fat with unsaturated fat (monounsaturated in the study on healthy subjects and ω-6 polyunsaturated in the one on diabetic patients) is able to improve significantly insulin sensitivity."

This appears to contradict the anecdotal information of several of our posters, here. I will need to read the entire article though -- looks like it is a review or metaanalysis. It also acknowledges that weight loss positively affects IR ... which, to my thinking, if caused by eating a high-SF diet, might offset the effects of the high SF?

Lemme get back to you!

ETA: most of the studies described herein are human feeding studies, there is no actual biochemical analysis to substantiate what they are saying. They do cite some animal studies though .... need to read those too.

When the studies refer to saturated fats, are they making any distinction between artificially saturated (i.e., hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated) fats and naturally-occurring saturated fats?

[Dis-N-Dat]

I know I don't know the two of you, but please:
Please stop fighting!

Come-on, take a deep breath...and look around. There are some terrible things going on in the world. Horrific violence, pestilence, war, starvation and cruelty.

It seems a vitriolic argument about edible oils is a little silly and beneath both of you.

I mean no disrespect to either of you, please understand that.

[foxl]

When the studies refer to saturated fats, are they making any distinction between artificially saturated (i.e., hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated) fats and naturally-occurring saturated fats?

Shottle while they do not distinguish between the two in the study, I assumed they are referring to naturally-SF. Most people cal lthe other sorts Trans-fats now ... but, Idon;t really know!

[fairyblood]

The poll doesn't fit me but I use Olive Oil and butter. I would never use lard and I would never use margarine or corn oil. That's the way I eat and I feel good about it for me.

[Dis-N-Dat]

Me too Fairyblood

[genie86333]

Butter *used to* upset my stomach - most dairy products did, but butter was the worst, for as long as I can remember! A dietician said I was mildly lactose intolerant, but not to stop using dairy because then it would get worse. Suddenly, starting a few months before my diabetes was diagnosed, I can eat any type of dairy without a problem. **shrug**

So, now I occasionally use butter, but usually use margarine just because it costs less & because I'm used to it.

[RWright]

What about "light" margarine?