High Cholesterol anyone?

[Kosmo29]

Hi all, just got a call from the dr. They told me my Zocor I have been on from two months brought my chol down from 260 to 181 and my trig from 179 to 158. Are the trig still too high, esp if I am pre-diabetic?

[foxl]

Yes.

But you might try eating fewer carbs and see if that brings your trigs down -- it seems like it typically DOES!

[ShottleBop]

Trigs should be lower. Carb cvontrol can really help in that regard, since they are what your body uses to produce trigs.

Regarding statis: they can cause neuropathy in and of themselves. Dr. Duane Graveline, in his newest book, The Statin Damage Crisis, questions their use by diabetics, who are already at increased risk of neuropathy.

[fgummett]

The article below suggests that Triglycerides below 70mg/dl (0.8mmol/l) is optimal. I agree with Linda's suggestion that low-carb is the best way -- I know of -- to achieve this.

Beyond Routine Cholesterol Testing: The Role of LDL Particle Size Assessment... (http://www.centerforpreventivemedicine.com/04114med_messenger.pdf)

As to the term "high cholesterol" that needs to be tossed out with the garbage :D Most Doctors suggest that you WANT your HDL to be high so is "high cholesterol" necessarily a bad thing? :cool:

[Kosmo29]

good point, but my HDL is only like 35, it's my LDL that is high. So in my case it's not so good.

[fgummett]

If you read the PDF I linked above you will see that LDL volume can be misleading... the size of the LDL particles seems to be more significant -- small and dense is considered 300% more of a risk than large and fluffy.

Consider the implications of that: it is possible to have a low LDL volume (which would make your Doctor very happy), but if it is made up of small dense particles it could be more damaging than an high LDL volume (which the Doctor says is "bad") made up of large fluffy particles. And remember that large fluffy particles take up much more room so they will cause a greater volume of LDL which is all that most labs currently measure ;)

This is even accepting that there is any truth to the cholesterol<->Heart Disease connection which is another debate all its own.

[Larry H.]

Yes I think many of us get here with high readings, I did.
After changing my diet and exercising more, loosing 35 pounds I got the best reading ever in Nov. 2008, which was my last full test.

Trigycerides, 37
Cholesterol 143, up from 132 the six months before, maybe
because my good number was higher.
HDL 68
LDL 67

my cholesterol ratio was 2.1 which they said was very good.

I used to have cholesterol over 257 and trigycerides near 300.

So I would say the changes in eating and exercise and taking lovastatin have made quite a difference.

[Ronin]

Hi Kosmo!

I'll join the chorus and say that your Triglycerides are too high and your cholesterol numbers are poor.

Diet has a large role to play regarding both. However, exercise changes the equation. I've noted this with my own body. As I increase exercise amounts and duration my BG and Triglycerides go down, and my HDL cholesterol goes up in relation to my LDL cholesterol.

I'm never going to say that this is an easy solution. Being retired really changed things for me because I now have lots of that precious time to devote to exercise as well as cooking my own meals.

However, there is no excuse for not walking when you can instead of driving or eating the more healthy options when they are available.

[notme]

I read the article, but am a bit concerned by the date of this article (2004). I would love to see some more recent studies done on this subject as I am also struggling with whether or not to take a cholesterol medication. I am working on VERY VERY low carb right now and no meat other than fish. If the diet changes nothing, I will consider trying a cholesterol lowering medication again. I did find out that I am at low risk for heart disease from a blood test that was done recently.

[Kosmo29]

Thanks for the reply's I just called back and found out that my LDL was 114 and my HDL is 35.

[foxl]

Kosmo, are you working out at all?

[Kosmo29]

Not really so much anymore. Does chasing my 15 year old month son around count?

[foxl]

Well ... it did not for ME! I wish it had.

Adopting my kids probably did me in ... before that I had a good workout schedule going and then I got them, could not run, and my weight ballooned. Now they are older and Ican work out, but I do wonder if I had known where things were gonna go (I do think I have some insulin resistance, antibodies notwithstanding), could I have re-prioritized and fit it in?

[jps]

Very good points made here so far.

As Frank noted, the LDL number may be misleading because partical size is important. For a more comprehensive test, your doctor may order a VAP test. Only one company in the country performs this test. But your doctor may order it for you.

Exercise and diet can really flip your lipid profile upside down (in a good way). Exercise most certainly increases your HDL and helps drop your triglycerides. But diet, most notably lower carb, has a pretty big impact on triglycerides. When I started low carbing, I noticed that my triglycerides actually went up initially (about a month later), but then they nose dived. I went from something like 220 to 250 (a month later) down to 100 five months later, down to 75 10 months later.

I do believe exercise can be a critical component. It doesn't have to be hard-core, all out P90X type of work. Just get up and move. Don't be sedentary. Go for brisk walks. Ride a bike. Jog. Ease your way into it. Try and make sure you do something, anything on a daily basis. It doesn't have to be for an hour. Take small measures. Walk your dog. Don't use the elevator, use the stairs. Park further away in the parking lot. Baby steps can make a difference. I remember literally collapsing after 2 pushups in the beginning, being able to lightly jog for only 5 minutes before I felt my heart was going to burst. Now I can do sets of 50 pushups with ease. I can jog 5 miles without dying. It took time to get there and I'm still not in optimal shape, but I'm very happy with my progress. And it all started with these small steps. And now things like this have (hopefully) become habit.

For example, I'm going fishing for a few days with buddies this weekend. I've made it a point to stop en route to our final destination for a moderate 3 hour hike with the guys. They aren't happy about it, but oh well. I simply need to get some exercise in - fishing is the polar opposite. I'll also make sure I do 200 pushups a day and go for nice morning and evening jogs - just for a couple of miles. The cool, brisk mountain air and scenery will make it easy.

It really does take a complete overhaul of attitude. Doing this has to be a mindset, it can't be a fad. I believe you have to commit to living a healthier life and prove it on a daily basis, both through diet and exercise. I don't even think about it anymore. I have found ways to incorporate exercise into my daily routine. I have a hectic schedule like everyone else, but it can be done. Just gotta remained commited to being healthier.

Sounds like a lot of hard work - and it is, but it becomes easier as time goes by - but it's well worth it.

[notme]

Exercise had little impact on my cholesterol, sadly. I have tried very hard for the past two years to lower my numbers so my doctor would stop pushing the cholesterol medication. Only once were my numbers in a range that he found acceptable (not great), but acceptable. He did a CRP test to see how much inflamation I had in my blood vessels and what my risk was for heart disease. These tests came back very low and that is the only reason he has let me continue to try to lower my cholesterol on my own. He isn't happy, but he is willing to let me keep trying for awhile. Talk to your doctor about having this simple blood test done. Any lab can do it.

Simple Blood Test Predicts Heart Disease (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20021113/simple-blood-test-predicts-heart-disease)

[foxl]

Exercise had little impact on my cholesterol, sadly. I have tried very hard for the past two years to lower my numbers so my doctor would stop pushing the cholesterol medication. Only once were my numbers in a range that he found acceptable (not great), but acceptable. He did a CRP test to see how much inflamation I had in my blood vessels and what my risk was for heart disease. These tests came back very low and that is the only reason he has let me continue to try to lower my cholesterol on my own. He isn't happy, but he is willing to let me keep trying for awhile. Talk to your doctor about having this simple blood test done. Any lab can do it.

Simple Blood Test Predicts Heart Disease (http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20021113/simple-blood-test-predicts-heart-disease)

I did bring mine up a bit by exercising. Increasing it a little can improve your "risk ratio" a lot, for what that is worth. (makes docs happier, anyhow).

[xMenace]

I did find out that I am at low risk for heart disease from a blood test that was done recently.

As an IDD you are a higher than normal risk.

[Larry H.]

Remember that some of this cholesterol can be a genetic issue. I know people that have very high cholesterol readings and are quite thin and seem to eat fairly well.

One example in a way is that my mom who is 85 has never had a problem with cholesterol or HB, in fact nearly nothing.

I on the other hand have both and diabetic issues. Though diet I have been able to bring mine down, but don't have the natural ability she has. I think my issues stem from my Grandmother on my Dads side, she died early heart trouble as did one of her sons at 47. Her husband had neither so my Dad seemed to also avoid the issue as well.

Some people are stuck with having to take medicine to reduce it or can be at high risk for complications.

[ShottleBop]

UCSD Statin Effects Study (https://www.statineffects.com/info/).

SHOULD YOU BE ON CHOLESTEROL-LOWERING DRUGS?
This is a decision you must make with your doctor. The following should be taken into account.

Middle aged men with significant risk for heart disease probably benefit more than they are harmed, in terms of survival (The West of Scotland Study). Risk factors include hypertension, smoking, diabetes, premature heart disease in a first degree relative and low HDL. Those who do not have high risk for heart disease experience a lower rate of heart deaths, but not even a trend toward lower overall death rate (The Texcaps/ACAPS study). (The total death rate was infinitesimally higher in the statin group.)

As of this writing, no study has shown statins or any other cholesterol drugs to lower overall mortality in women; and epidemiologically, cholesterol in women does not have the same relation to mortality as in men. Although higher cholesterol is linked to a higher rate of heart attacks per se, it is not linked to overall cardiovascular death or to overall death; indeed, lower cholesterol is linked to a slightly higher risk in some studies. Consistent with this, there is a decided reduction in heart attacks in women with statins, but the death rate overall -- or even cardiovascular death rate - has not been shown to be reduced. It is possible that there are subgroups of women for whom statins confer benefit exceeding risk, but this has never been demonstrated.

No studies have examined the impact of statins in randomized trials in those over age 75. Epidemiological studies show higher cholesterol to be protective, rather than harmful, in this age group, so it cannot be assumed that lowering cholesterol confers benefit exceeding risk. Low cholesterol may be a risk factor for heart arrhythmias, which are the leading cause of death if heart attacks occur; and in the elderly, a heart rhythm abnormality called atrial fibrillation, that may be increased with low cholesterol, is a particularly important risk factor for stroke in the older elderly. It is possible that there are subgroups of those over age 75 for whom statins confer benefit exceeding risk, but this has never been demonstrated. This would most likely be the case in persons at very high risk of death from heart disease, who are at comparatively low risk for other illness and injury.