Huge carbs, great A1c, tremendous weight loss

[DCCTman]

Why? I move my body. I'm a green person, don't drive. Walk many, many km/miles per week. To work, to the grocery store, to just about everywhere. Last week 163km(101miles).

My total daily carb intake is usually over 300g and I'm just barely maintaining 65kg(144lbs) on just less than a 1.8m(5'11"). Out of the last 4 A1c's, only one was a 6.0 and all the rest were 5.9 or under.

Go jump in a lake Atkins:D .

Walk, walk, move, move, eat healthy carbs, plenty of fiber and lean sources of protein.

I had to add whey and egg white protein since I was also losing muscle mass. 23 months ago, thanks to 2 horrible drugs, I weighed 116kg(256lbs). Went off of them, found new ones, and made gradual manageable changes to my lifestyle - there was no weight-loss diet that ever worked for me and most people fail trying.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but the secret is to MOVE your body. That is where true success lies. Walk to get your groceries, to work, or somewhere you must go regularly. Exercise Diet and Insulin - you need each and every one of them. Without one the stool topples. I know that from experience - both the poor control and now the excellent. If only hypoglycemia...

[retired60]

We all know that moving your body in various ways is good for you.................but every one is a little different when it comes to gaining and keeping control. I walk constantly and try to be as active as I can, but this alone would not give me the control that I feel comfortable with. The name of the game in my opinion is diet(counting carbs) and exercise.

[Gordonm]

Good for you. Someone else who is not afraid of carbs. I exercise as much as possible and on heavy days I can consume 250+ carbs with no spike in BS. My job requires me to drive a lot and days I spend in the car are lower carb days. If I do not work out for 2 days I see my BS start to rise and more basal is needed. I agree, movement is the best thing you can do.

[ShottleBop]

You walk an average of over 16 miles a day. Depending on how fast you walk, that's probably somewhere between 4 and 5 hours a day of walking. Unless part of that is your job, you spend a majority of your waking, non-working time walking. That is an option you are certainly free to choose for yourself, but I prefer to eat fewer carbs and to have more time to do other things.

[foxl]

Well I am happy for ya. You are walking miles and miles, so you should know the meaning of YMMV -- You Mileage May Vary.

Moving helps, but so does diet.

And ... what are your numbers on this highly stringent regimen? A1c? And what is your total units of insulin per day?

High-carbing can work for some people, I have little doubt from reading here.

Preservation of your beta cells for as long as possible is the ultimate goal, since it is instrumental in prevention of long term vascular consequences. If your diet and exercise work toward that, you cannot go wrong.

[DeusXM]

You walk an average of over 16 miles a day. Depending on how fast you walk, that's probably somewhere between 4 and 5 hours a day of walking. Unless part of that is your job, you spend a majority of your waking, non-working time walking. That is an option you are certainly free to choose for yourself, but I prefer to eat fewer carbs and to have more time to do other things.

Actually 101/7 is just over 14 miles a day. Walking a mile in 10 minutes isn't exactly unrealistic. So say 14 miles a day - that's 140 minutes.

That's just over two hours of walking a day. That's hardly 'most' of the day and it's probably a lot less time than most people spend watching TV.

[ShottleBop]

Yeah, I was thinking 6 days a week. But 10 mins./mile? Give me a break! I do exercise--at least 30 minutes on a stationary bike I keep in the bedroom, most days--and I regularly use a treadmill at the Y. At 10 minutes a mile, you're not walking, unless you're a race-walker--and then you're probably pouring buckets of sweat. Hardly the way to get to work/to the store/to the funeral/wherever else you're going. And with my work schedule: Leave for work at 7:30, get back perhaps at perhaps 7 in the evening, I don't want to dedicate even two and a half hours a day to exercise. I'm married.

[soso]

It's not just a matter of being afraid of carbs, or not MOVING the body.

I have an A1c of 5.2 (maintained for 5 yrs) let me assure you I get all the exercise I can and am very active, granted with a 12 hr a day physically tiring job (which I do from home so no walk to work) I am not walking 100 miles a week... I am not overweight (except in a vain way)
but

if I tried to eat 300 g carb a day or even 200g and take the requisite insulin ESP with my exercise routines, I would be living in hypo-land or hyper-land.

I am happy for you and I do agree that exercise is a very important tool, but just because your particular form of diabetes responds to your choice of treatment don't assume that we who cut carbs to attain good control do so because we are afraid of them, don't eat our veggies or are too bone idle to do a bit of hard work.

I work my *** off to keep my control and I know a lot of others here do too... I would love to eat sweet potato and beans again and I have tried many combinations of jabbing and moving to make it happen—it is still napalm to my bg's or enough insulin and then I spend hours 3 and 4 feeding the insulin.
I know a pump would prolly cure my problem..but again... kiss your pump and the ground you walk on people who are lucky enough to be able to afford and have the time to have the kind of control you have.. it is a stool, but some of us have to prop up one leg a bit with folded napkins...

[notme]

I walk my dogs 2.5 miles a day in 45 minutes. We walk at a pretty fast pace. That is about 18 minutes a mile. Is that right? I am bad at math, but I think that is pretty reasonable. So if we did 14 miles that would take about four hours out of my day.

I suppose I could walk a little faster, so it is feasable that someone could walk a mile in about 14 minutes or so. I think anything faster would be almost running. Ten minutes would take one fit person!

Now I am inspired to walk more!


Did I do all that math correctly??? :stupido3:

[lark 27]

Wow! That's a lot of miles and an incredible amount of weight loss! Good for you. I run 5-6 days a week and that running mileage only adds up currently to 20-25 miles a week so I can't fathom 101 miles walking. I've used the pedometer some for just gauging walking around the home and office and probably get another 3-4 miles a day there. I guess I'm a high carber as well right not (250/day for a 225 pound male), but this forum and other sources are making me reconsider. Maybe it's an obvious statement, but for me, the more carbs I have the greater the need for activity, but I'm thinking I could benefit from more of a moderate carb and still high activity lifestyle.

All the best with the walking,
Lark

[lark 27]

it is a stool, but some of us have to prop up one leg a bit with folded napkins...

I love the folded napkin anaolgy! I am on the opposite end of the folded napkins where I am not low-carbing and I prop up my stool with the napkins of pump/CGMS (yes I feel grateful to have this tool), excessive fingerstick testing even with the CGMS, and requisite boluses as needed based on the testing. I think I probably could level out the legs of the stool a bit with lowering the carb.

Good luck keeping the stool from toppling,
LArk

[plattb1]

I walk my dogs 2.5 miles a day in 45 minutes. We walk at a pretty fast pace. That is about 18 minutes a mile. Is that right? I am bad at math, but I think that is pretty reasonable. So if we did 14 miles that would take about four hours out of my day.

I suppose I could walk a little faster, so it is feasable that someone could walk a mile in about 14 minutes or so. I think anything faster would be almost running. Ten minutes would take one fit person!

Now I am inspired to walk more!


Did I do all that math correctly??? :stupido3:
So, Nancy, if you speed up on your dog-walking excursions, will they appreciate the increased activity level? What happens when you have to pause because they're smelling something along the pathway? Or, is that a typical behavior for only my little dog?

I'm with you. I like a pace that my dog & I are both comfortable with. Plus I love her company when I exercise. It's got to be good for both of us!

High fives for all athletes - but, we can't all be athletes - just like we can't all be any one thing (Thank God!)

For me, moderation in all things is one key to keeping it going over time.

[yannah]

so you are a t1, and I am t2 on metformin. I think the carb thing is way different, as it the whole beta cell issue.

am I right here?

[Subby]

I think it's great when people find a real key of success for their diabetes. I love to hear about it. I also thing that exercise can be a very substantial part of tackling diabetes, probably whatever the type, but in this context of type 1, keeping the body and metabolism humming along, along with myriad other benefits. One of my main frustrations is having some kind of chronic fatigue as well as diabetes, which seems to cap my exercise reasonably severely, no matter what I do or if I keep trying to "break through". Even with stupid and frustrating limitations though I find daily walking and some more strenuous exercise if up for it, incredibly useful for the bg control.

I'm not trying to sound rude, but the secret is to MOVE your body.

This sentence, however, is a bit strange. I guess there's some assumption that everyone else on the forum doesn't exercise nor see any benefit to it, and sit around like fat slobs all day, whoever they are or whatever medical issues they have. What's with that assumption? What's with the attitude?

[foxl]

Kelli, on the beta cells, not necessarily. There is a theory of beta cell "exhaustion" due to glucose exposure. There is also the slow attack on beta cells by Tcells, and does increased insulin production (ie to process higher carbs) by those cells attract more T-cells, thus hastening beta cell demise?

OP, as a former DCCT volunteer should be able to post about that -- it was found in DCCT that prolonged beta cell survival, even at low levels, spared pts from late vascular damage.

[Subby]

Kelli, on the beta cells, not necessarily. There is a theory of beta cell "exhaustion" due to glucose exposure. There is also the slow attack on beta cells by Tcells, and does increased insulin production (ie to process higher carbs) by those cells attract more T-cells, thus hastening beta cell demise?

OP, as a former DCCT volunteer should be able to post about that -- it was found in DCCT that prolonged beta cell survival, even at low levels, spared pts from late vascular damage.

This does perhaps assume the OP had significant beta cells surviving, to be investing in over the time... don't forget for many t1s the honeymoon is over in what... a couple of months? Maybe residue beta cell activity - the significance of that would need to be taken in context though. Which I am happy to hear about, myself. :)

[foxl]

This does perhaps assume the OP had significant beta cells surviving, to be investing in over the time... don't forget for many t1s the honeymoon is over in what... a couple of months? Maybe residue beta cell activity - the significance of that would need to be taken in context though. Which I am happy to hear about, myself. :)

True, Subby, but I was surprised at how small a cell mass was significantly protective, bawsed on c-peptide in the study I read last night! Let's see if I can find it again on Pubmed. It was interesting!

[Subby]

Yep, thanks Linda, I'd be interested in that info... might be a good reason to get a c-pep. Well, maybe, maybe not, I don't know if it's that much fun being put in the "high high risk" category, which is probably the likely outcome for a lot of us long termer type 1s...

[Granny Shanny]

Kudos to you, Rob, for your successful management of your diabetes. You seem to have taken the bull by the horns and made your various beliefs and practices work in harmony with curbing the progress of your disorder.

The error you make is in professing so strongly that everyone should adopt your regimen. Yes, moving our bodies is of great importance, but everyone doesn't live in a large metropolitan area like St. Louis where they can walk everywhere they need to go, and everyone doesn't have the mobility and/or the time that you apparently have. Hypothetically, I could walk to town to get to work (hypothetically because I retired 12 years ago), but I'd be a dirty sweaty mess when I got there & not fit to face the bank customers, because half the distance is gravel road. If you've lived in Missouri for very long, you know that this season of the year things get very dry and dusty. (of course I understand that gravels roads are a non-issue in St. Louis . . . what a treat to live where pavement covers everything! NOT!)

So more power to you in the lifestyle you've chosen. But my advice to you is ease off with the attitude & your assumptions that the rest of us don't know our *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to managing our own disorder. Your DCCT credentials are nice, but they don't trump the successful experiences of all the other patients on this forum.

[foxl]

Not sure it was this one ...

Review Article
C-peptide in the natural history of type 1 diabetes
Jerry P. Palmer *
Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System and University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA

email: Jerry P. Palmer (jpp@u.washington.edu)

*Correspondence to Jerry P. Palmer, Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System and University of Washington, Seattle, WA, USA.

Abstract
Type 1 diabetes is diagnosed when the patient's endogenous insulin secretion decreases to a level which results in hyperglycemia. After diagnosis, insulin secretion continues to decline. As a reference for clinical trials trying to preserve endogenous beta-cell function in patients with recently diagnosed type 1 diabetes, in this short review I attempt to summarize the natural history of endogenous beta-cell function after the diagnosis of type 1 diabetes. Copyright © 2009 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Received: 21 December 2008; Accepted: 2 February 2009
Digital Object Identifier (DOI)

10.1002/dmrr.943 About DOI

[Dis-N-Dat]

What a wonderful lifestyle1 I'm very happy for you and I'm glad you've found the perfect fit...for you.

I can completely understand how if you were able to walk and run and climb as you do, would require more carbs.

[sarahspins]

This sentence, however, is a bit strange. I guess there's some assumption that everyone else on the forum doesn't exercise nor see any benefit to it, and sit around like fat slobs all day, whoever they are or whatever medical issues they have. What's with that assumption? What's with the attitude?

Isn't it true to some degree though? I honestly, and without any hesitation AT ALL, really believe that most (note that I do not say "all") of us live extremely sedentary lives.. even when we get "enough" exercise according to recommendations, it's really not even coming close to what our bodies were really designed for. Everything is too easy for us now.

Does that mean that I think everyone is fat slobs? No, of course not, but it does mean that I firmly believe that claims of "oh I excercise 30 minutes every day" are in large part complete BS...because the amount is so relatively insignificant if someone DOES sit around the majority of the day, or flat out refuses to spend any more time than that being active. That is a very valid point, regardless of who is saying it or why.

As far as the OP - kudos to you for being BRAVE enough to step up and admit you aren't a low-carber. I'm not, and no amount of convincing from others will make me one.... I'm in good control doing things the way I am, because I inderstand how insulin works and use it appropriately, rather than trying to blame it for all my problems, and my triglycerides are well within normal... I really see no reason to cut out carbs because the majority on an internet forum have seemingly decided it's the only reasonable way to manage D. Maybe it is for people who refuse to get up and not sit on their *** all day.

[Subby]

Isn't it true to some degree though? I honestly, and without any hesitation AT ALL, really believe that most (note that I do not say "all") of us live extremely sedentary lives.. even when we get "enough" exercise according to recommendations, it's really not even coming close to what our bodies were really designed for. Everything is too easy for us now.

Does that mean that I think everyone is fat slobs? No, of course not, but it does mean that I firmly believe that claims of "oh I excercise 30 minutes every day" are in large part complete BS...because the amount is so relatively insignificant if someone DOES sit around the majority of the day, or flat out refuses to spend any more time than that being active. That is a very valid point, regardless of who is saying it or why.

As far as the OP - kudos to you for being BRAVE enough to step up and admit you aren't a low-carber. I'm not, and no amount of convincing from others will make me one.... I'm in good control doing things the way I am, because I inderstand how insulin works and use it appropriately, rather than trying to blame it for all my problems, and my triglycerides are well within normal... I really see no reason to cut out carbs because the majority on an internet forum have seemingly decided it's the only reasonable way to manage D. Maybe it is for people who refuse to get up and not sit on their *** all day.

See, maybe you have tapped onto the same unspecified vein the OP did, what is actually being railed against here. WHO is trying to force you to eat low carb? Not me, that's for sure. There are a couple of insistent but generally respectful low carb type 1 diabetic posters, and probably a much larger contingent of type 2s who get very excited about it, and hey, type 2 and insulin resistance is surely a different beast to straight type 1.

I really think overly typifying the board as some cliche of low carbers is aimless and pointless. Yes, some would probably like it that way, but I don't see the reality, myself. The kind of grappling over low carb at times along with all other issues that does go on, illustrates this. And, by the way, I don't consider myself a low carber but I do have issues with extremely variable responses to carbs, and I have found reducing them (independently of this forum for the most part) and certainly not wholeheartedly embracing them, has helped with control over the years. Guess that makes me just a dumb *** with insulin, according to you.

[Granny Shanny]

NID patients are at quite some disadvantage compared to those of you who can cover your carb intake with a bolus. Perhaps the OP would be better advised to have posted this in the Type 1 forum. I think it comes on far too strong for a lot of us who have less latitude than has he, and I fully agree with Soso . . . OP needs to kiss his pump and the ground he walks on that he is afforded the opportunities to manage in the way he does.

[inkvisitor]

Being a T1, I would never dream of regularly eating that many carbs /day (or whatever the equivalent for my size/frame would be). While I have the "luxury" of being able to take as much extra insulin as I need, the more carbs I eat the more variability and unpredictability there is, regardless of exercise.
Too many issues such as glycemic index, insulin resistance for counteracting carbs, etc. Add that to the hypoglycemic issues that potentially occur from exercise, and no thanks.

That being said, like others have mentioned, I am also glad to hear about others' success stories and I know that everyone's MMV. I also agree that regular exercise is good in general and is essential (for me) in keeping up a good rate of metabolism. I find, though, that I can exercise and feel good without loading up on carbs and dealing with potential rollercoaster issues.

[Real4]

Why? I move my body. I'm a green person, don't drive. Walk many, many km/miles per week. To work, to the grocery store, to just about everywhere. Last week 163km(101miles)

Walking fast it would take about 25 hours, or 3.5 hours a day, to walk that far. Very few people, not in the third world can or must, walk that much a day.

Certainly, if you do you will "burn off" a lot of carbs.

This would be especially valuable if you were a type II. Although, if you walked that much, you most likely never fully develop type II, even with a high input of high carb food.

[notme]

I really think this post is a good one and should be taken in the light that it was presented. This member has found that exercise reduces the need for insulin or medication. That is not such an uncommon post, but the fact that it is a way of life for the OP is entertaining a new idea rather than just control with food types alone.

I don't think the post needs to be moved. This information can pertain to anyone who has diabetes. Low carb works for many, exercise works for many. It is just another presentation of another idea that someone has for control.

I know it has made me think about my small 2.5 mile walk per day. My doctor did tell me that this was not enough and I needed to add resistance training into my plan. I think the OP may be on to something for me.

[soso]

This sentence, however, is a bit strange. I guess there's some assumption that everyone else on the forum doesn't exercise nor see any benefit to it, and sit around like fat slobs all day, whoever they are or whatever medical issues they have. What's with that assumption? What's with the attitude?

I think that's what pushed my buttons too... sorry, I am having a bad few days..so cranky as ......

I AM really glad for OP though...

As to the idea that low carbers are just too effing lazy to get off their asses and want to force it (scuse the pun) down everyone else's throat.. aarrrrggghhhh.......what do we all fantasize about? If I could do more and eat what I wanted..I would! I tell you, if I go at it like a demented maniac for a few days I get away with a bit... but it is a bit.. when I hang out with others.. I am staggered at what they eat, with seemingly no repercussions..
we do what we can do.

edited to say
Thank you Nancy for getting me down off my high horse.. I DO appreciate that the OP was pointing out the positives of exercise.. I am just being a bit touchy, cos I am tired and tired of diabetes.. my comments stand, but I apologize to the OP if I offended...good on you!

[Granny Shanny]

My days have been pretty good so I have no excuse, but while I don't feel the need to apologize to OP (I did, after all, commend him for his efforts and his successes - I just further pointed out the condescension which came along with his testimony. Soso & I weren't the only ones whose buttons got pushed), I do want to apologize to notme for letting my irritation at OP override my ladylike vocabulary. Thanks for the edit, Nancy.

[lovehandles]

Hi new here, but I'll put in my 2cents. What works great for one, may not work for another. That's great that you can eat tons of carbs. If I did that, I'd be taking tons of insulin along with it and gaining a pound a day, and I am a walker. I'm a nurse and I probably put in ten miles in a day. We're talking 10 hours with barely a 15 minute sit down for lunch walking, sometimes running, the whole time. You would think that would let me eat whatever I want but it only affords me a little extra carb, maybe the equilivent of a slice of bread more compared to the days I am not working. Consider yourself very lucky.