carbs or fat?

[binnieman]

Now that I have realized my higher risks of developing T2 if something doesn't give, I have started with lowering my carb intake among other things. This is quite possibly going to result in higher fat intake for me, which right now is minimal. Given this, I have a very basic question. What is better for overall health and weight control with respect to members of this forum - higher fat and lower carbs or vice versa? I would rather not experiment any extremes if there is a general consensus among this group.

My risk factors are family history (diabetic father) and FBG generally in the 90s or low 100s.

[BlueSky]

Eating high-fat is much more healthy than eating high-carb. 70% of my calories come from fat, maybe 20% come from protein, and the remaining 10% come from carbo.

[jps]

Binnieman, speaking only for myself of course (although you will find many others here that have found similar results), I was worried about increasing my fat content. I work in a lab so I can track what it's doing to my body.

I increased eggs, cheese, nuts, used butter instead of margarine, went crazy on avocados and coconut, opted for whole fat milk instead of skim.

First off, I believe it does help slow the absorbtion of glucose, thereby helping curtail spikes.

But yes, I was worried about my relatively normal lipid profile with such a dramatic increase in fats.

Guess what? It sliced the heck out of it. Cholesterol dropped 50 points. LDL dropped around 40%. And the triglycerides were dramatically decreased (Trigs come from glucose/carb intake, so it makes sense that it would drop). My HDL more than doubled, but that's not dietary, that's from exercise.

I'll be drawing my 1 year tests soon... 1 year anniversary of my diagnosis with T2. Looking at the before and after numbers will be nothing short of remarkable and I attribute it to a low carb diet and exercise.

[ADSOFT]

Personally I prefer, More protien and less carbs. Almost no fat.

Fat is harder to breakdown from what I have read.


But, IMHO. You have to excercise and do resistive training since increases metabolism and drink 2 liters of water each day to keep toxins down.

I'm no expert but, it looks like in most cases first you develop insulance resistance then the pancreas burns out trying to get the muscles to burn glucose. It's as if toxins build up in your body and put a monkey wrench in glucose combustion process.

... but it's just a theory.

Keeping the muscles burning glucose

[xMenace]

The consensus on a forum is not a good way to make decisions. We are not health scientists by any stretch of the imagination.

Here's some slightly more credible places to start with

Books
"Good Calories, Bad Calories" - Gary Taubes
"In Defense of Food" - Michael Pollan
Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. A Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars. Official Web Site (http://www.diabetes-book.com/)


Sites
David Mendosa: A Writer About Diabetes (http://www.mendosa.com/)
The Official Website For Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low-Carb (http://www.livinlavidalowcarb.com/)
Low Carb Pavilion - Low Carb Diet Information - Lose Weight and Control Diabetes with a Low Carbohydrate Diet (http://www.wilstar.com/lowcarb/)


Articles
How a Low-Carb Diet Works : The Diabetes Diet (http://www.enotalone.com/article/3244.html)
Low carbohydrate diets for diabetes control (http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1570767)
Do Low-Carb Diets Help Diabetes? (http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20060616/do-low-carb-diets-help-diabetes)
Interview with Dr Mary Vernon about Diabetes Weight Loss and Low Carb Diets (http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/prediabetesanddiabetes/a/vernoninterview_2.htm)
ADA Now Supports Low-Carb Diets - Diabetes Health (http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2008/01/09/5616/ada-now-supports-low-carb-diets/)
YouTube - Atkins Diet Misconceptions: Low Carb and Diabetes (Part 1) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4uwyh48rEk)

[fgummett]

Personally I prefer, More [protein] and less carbs. Almost no fat.Just curious as to what you eat to achieve that mix? In my experience most natural foods that are rich sources of protein, have fat as well... nuts, meat, fowl, fish and so on...

---

The consensus on a forum is not a good way to make decisions.I couldn't agree more John :congrats:

[jps]

Maybe it's a beef jerky diet Frank?

All protein, no fat and low carb can be extremely dangerous too. You don't want to give the body zero choice in what to use as fuel, especially when that only choice is protein.

[fgummett]

Hmmm... no... even beef jerky has Fat ;) Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Snacks, beef jerky, chopped and formed (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/snacks/5332/2)

My concern is that while there are no essential Carbs, there are essential Fats and Proteins -- essential in this context meaning that we can only get these from our diet, the body cannot make them. With the structure of our brains and cell membranes (as examples) defendant on Fat, we need to eat some.

Is dietary carbohydrate essential for human nutrition? -- Westman 75 (5): 951 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/75/5/951-a)

[Granny Shanny]

Now that I have realized my higher risks of developing T2 if something doesn't give, I have started with lowering my carb intake among other things. This is quite possibly going to result in higher fat intake for me, which right now is minimal. Given this, I have a very basic question. What is better for overall health and weight control with respect to members of this forum - higher fat and lower carbs or vice versa? I would rather not experiment any extremes if there is a general consensus among this group.

My risk factors are family history (diabetic father) and FBG generally in the 90s or low 100s.


You won't find "general consensus" in THIS group! :D :D :D But many of us have experienced dramatic positive changes in our lipids levels, without curbing fats in our diets.

If you decide to start lowering your carb intake, you may find that including a little high level of fats helps make the low-carb program more acceptable. And the truth is, our bodies NEED fats - just like an internal combustion engine needs oil!

[binnieman]

In November I did lipids test and my HDL was 65, LDL 108 glycerides 145. After that, just for the heck of it, I went on a really low fat diet but did not change my carb intake. Six months later, my HDL dropped to 51 under the low fat diet, LDL 101, and triglycerides 124. At the time, I didn't know anything about my sugar levels. I realize everyone's metabolic process is different but trying to find that right balance between good glucose levels and cholesterol could be rather demanding. But I am gathering that a little extra fat is probably better than extra carbs specially when facing the onset of diabetes.

[binnieman]

i should add, the test in november was not fasting. I had coffee and a blueberry scone from Starbucks - i live in Seattle. that scone had 390 calories and 20 grams of fat, who knows how many carbs

[Granny Shanny]

In November I did lipids test and my HDL was 65, LDL 108 glycerides 145. After that, just for the heck of it, I went on a really low fat diet but did not change my carb intake. Six months later, my HDL dropped to 51 under the low fat diet, LDL 101, and triglycerides 124. At the time, I didn't know anything about my sugar levels. I realize everyone's metabolic process is different but trying to find that right balance between good glucose levels and cholesterol could be rather demanding. But I am gathering that a little extra fat is probably better than extra carbs specially when facing the onset of diabetes.

That's it! :D :D :D

And I did a poor proofreading job on my previous post . . . what I meant to say was "including a little higher level of fats helps make the low-carb program more acceptable"

[foxl]

Okay ... from what I have been reading since Feb when I was dx'd, my "vote" is for low carbing.

From my personal experience, high carb works for a time. So far, low-carbing is easier for me to do.

I have hit a weight plateau, but my last A1c (June) was 5.8. I consider myself to be a work in progress and only time will tell ... but so far lower carbing (and I do not mean Atkins, I mean 20% available carb, see my sig) has been a reasonable way for me to control my blood sugar, before I use insulin for
T1.5D

Time will tell. I do NOT have a lipid panel since being on this diet, and I AM taking simvastatin. But I also have lost ... 35 lb since my peak weight, pre-diagnosis, the last 20 or so of it through this tasty and satisfying diet. So I feel it has helped ME. And I would say for anyone, it is worth a try at least.

Just heard this morning of yet another MD who advises pts to low carb ... but she is an ObGyn. This is an issue that can be argued at the personal level, at the research literature level, or at the clinical experience level, in other words. So far the longterm evidence is out on whether one or the other is better.

[binnieman]

well then, there does seem to be a consensus at least to control sugar and a1c levels. The agreement seems to be to minimize the carbs and not to fear fats too much. That works for me.

[Granny Shanny]

well then, there does seem to be a consensus at least to control sugar and a1c levels. The agreement seems to be to minimize the carbs and not to fear fats too much. That works for me.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/sneezytwo/yay.gif True, we do usually agree that BG & A1c levels be controlled if possible!

[Grunch]

well then, there does seem to be a consensus at least to control sugar and a1c levels. The agreement seems to be to minimize the carbs and not to fear fats too much. That works for me.

Each person is different, so there's not a consensus about what's best in general, but in your specific case you're almost certainly better off cutting down carbs (no need to be extreme though).

[jps]

The impetus has to be blood glucose control IMO, not lipid control. If you can control both, which you can if you find the right balance, that's what you want. But without glucose control, you're guaranteed to suffer many complications.

[Larry H.]

This is an excellent issue. As many have said there is probably not an exact answer as people use these things so differently. I had by pass surgery which seemed to be an trigger for the onset of the diabetes so for me keeping the fat level low was always an imperative, but as we all know, low carb usually means increased fats, at a least in ready made products. So its been a hard balancing act for me. I have been able to keep my glucose numbers down pretty good compared to where they were, but my doctors are concerned about my arteries even though my blood test have shown terrific improvement in my cholesterol and triglycerides ect. I am not sure how to proceed with that news since I feel good and no angina, but its scary to think that even eating limited fat for me is possibly a issue.

I walk about a half hour a day, sometimes more once in a while not at all, but most of the time. I eat much better and less of it, so it would seem my numbers would be reflecting a better condition, but since some of us don't use the cholesterol like others do, we can still have issues even with reduced fat intake. I too had been experimenting with eating an occasional pizza serving if I found ones that had lower carbs and say 30% fat which is a standard recommendation it seems. I also was eating a bit more meats and things that were known as fat sources, but even so the numbers looked good. But after a cardiologist thought my heart arteries were fairly blocked again I just didn't know what to make of it.

So its a personal thing as to what a person can eat. My mom who eats all the same things has absolutely perfect numbers for BP and Chol., and she is 86 nearly. I on the other hand don't, so it proves we are all different.