neuropathy/Neuralgia skin pain/sensitive/ feeling anyone?

[vet]

Hey guys,



I've had this burning/pain/prickly/sensitive pain on my skin for the past 6 weeks and it's been horrible. The pain is like 6 out of 10 which manageable except for the fact that it is constant, all day, all nite..i can't sleep thru the nite at all. The pain is in my boobs, pelvic area, inner thighs, and starting to move down my leg now. There is no visible signs at all and the pain is even on both sides. I also have a mild cough and abdominal pain.

i've been researching and ruled out some stuff such as shingles, fibro, etc, etc...

Does anybody have these symptoms?? anyone been diagnosed with Neuropathy?? I'm going to the Neurolgist next week....help? please?

[Dis-N-Dat]

I posted a similair question a couple of weeks ago. Here's what I found:

1. Itching: People with pancreatic cancer sometimes report itching all over. Blockage of the bile ducts is often responsible.
2. Pancreatic cancer - Diabetes Daily Wiki (http://www.diabetesdaily.com/wiki/Pancreatic_cancer)

Not to scare you but definately discuss it with your MD, (my apt is next week)

[sharpwaa]

Hey guys,



I've had this burning/pain/prickly/sensitive pain on my skin for the past 6 weeks and it's been horrible. The pain is like 6 out of 10 which manageable except for the fact that it is constant, all day, all nite..i can't sleep thru the nite at all. The pain is in my boobs, pelvic area, inner thighs, and starting to move down my leg now. There is no visible signs at all and the pain is even on both sides. I also have a mild cough and abdominal pain.

i've been researching and ruled out some stuff such as shingles, fibro, etc, etc...

Does anybody have these symptoms?? anyone been diagnosed with Neuropathy?? I'm going to the Neurolgist next week....help? please?
Hello, Ive suffered the same symptoms for the last 3-4 years. For me it's irreversable nerve damage due to blood glucose levels and something I just have to live with. I'm prescribed Amitryptaline for this, but at least 2 days out of 7 the pain factor is 8-9 out of 10. The only solution then is to move as little as possible and suppliment with paracetomol. I have discovered over the years that taking zero caffeine and any other stimulants, alcohol etc. makes it more bearable but it's always there. It's hard to do when it's bad, but it's always better after a lot of activity/exercise. I find rubbing Oil of Evening Primrose on the affected areas before bed does in fact help me. Wearing loose light clothing that doesn't chaff your skin and in winter wear pantyhose under trousers to prevent them rubbing on your skin. Hope this is helpful and god bless you.

[Mich]

What you describe is one of the symptoms of neuropathy. It is reversable. Keep your blood sugar under control, get a little exercise each day, and you may want to try Dr Bernstein's suggestion of a 300 mg time-release ALA tablet once or twice per day. For temporary relief, they make a capsaicin cream. It may be Rx, I'm not sure.

I have had it now and then. The above steps help and it is gone. It comes back when I skip the ALA for a day or two. I always smile when I see the "bees on the feet" or "tacks on the toes" ads. They come pretty close to what neuropathy sometimes feels like. I think they should add the "inner calves on fire" ad.:eek:

Do a little resarch on Alph Lipoic Acid yourself. In Germany, they actually cure neuropathy with it.

Mich

[NewdestinyX]

From what I've read on the topic -- and it's one of the scariest for Type 2's.. Your symptoms sound like the 'pain' of neuropathy but they're located in the 'wrong places'. Most diabetic complicated neuropathy is in the feet first and then hands.. Not the middle of the body like you describe. I would be very surprised if it's neuropathy but please report back what the doc says. If it's 'new' then it could be the 'curable' kind called 'acute neuropathy' -- and it goes away after blood sugar is under control. See it as a sign to get it under control. And insulin would be the fastest way but has a couple complications in keeping you from getting lows in your BG. But that's easier to protect against than the permanent damage called 'chronic neuropathy'. That can only be 'symptom controlled'.

If you're already on Metformin for Type 2 it's known to deplete the body of Vitamin B12 which can have 'neuropathy like' symptoms too. Tingling/burning and pain in hands and feet - circulation problems in general. A B12 shot will take care of that and rule that out as a possibility if it doesn't take away the pain -- but it won't hurt you either. In fact you'll feel a LOT better for at least a month just to have some more B12 in your system. They call B12 shots the 'feel good' shots. More energy.. staying power thru the day, etc.

Hoping for the best... for you. Report back, please.

[NewdestinyX]

What you describe is one of the symptoms of neuropathy. It is reversable. Keep your blood sugar under control, get a little exercise each day, and you may want to try Dr Bernstein's suggestion of a 300 mg time-release ALA tablet once or twice per day. For temporary relief, they make a capsaicin cream. It may be Rx, I'm not sure.

I have had it now and then. The above steps help and it is gone. It comes back when I skip the ALA for a day or two. I always smile when I see the "bees on the feet" or "tacks on the toes" ads. They come pretty close to what neuropathy sometimes feels like. I think they should add the "inner calves on fire" ad.:eek:

Do a little resarch on Alph Lipoic Acid yourself. In Germany, they actually cure neuropathy with it.

Mich"Chronic Neuropathy" is incurable in any country. It's permanent nerve damage. It can be 'symptom' controlled to varying degrees but not cured.

Well the nerves do grow back at 0.1 millimeter a year - but that's usually not gonna make enough difference for a sufferer of Chronic Neur...

[Dis-N-Dat]

Thought I'd follow-up my other post on this. My PCP tested for pancreatic cancer and I'm clear (thank God). The only thing she and the specialists can offer me is symtom control with Neurontin in higher doses. It's NOT working. MCS suggested Lyrica but it's contraindicated with one of the meds I'm on.

No improvement, the symptoms are still present and scale at 8 out of 10 now. Sleep is down to 30 minutes at a time. I'm exhausted, cranky and miserable. Arrrrggghhhh! :mad:

My numbers are in the 80s for the most part and aerage 95. I'm exercising daily. It doesn't seem that there's any relief in site, so I'm just hanging on, trying to make it through each day. I'm grateful to have these forums for a distraction.

We need a Neuropathy sub foum!

[NewdestinyX]

Thought I'd follow-up my other post on this. My PCP tested for pancreatic cancer and I'm clear (thank God). The only thing she and the specialists can offer me is symtom control with Neurontin in higher doses. It's NOT working. MCS suggested Lyrica but it's contraindicated with one of the meds I'm on.

No improvement, the symptoms are still present and scale at 8 out of 10 now. Sleep is down to 30 minutes at a time. I'm exhausted, cranky and miserable. Arrrrggghhhh! :mad:

My numbers are in the 80s for the most part and aerage 95. I'm exercising daily. It doesn't seem that there's any relief in site, so I'm just hanging on, trying to make it through each day. I'm grateful to have these forums for a distraction.

We need a Neuropathy sub foum!Wow.. I"m blown away.. I don't understand. Can you describe your exact symptoms? It just doesn't sound like anything I've read about neuropathy.. Not in the 'center' of the body. Have you checked for Vitamin D deficiency (creates RICKETS and terrible painful thing like you describe) or Vitamin B12 deficiency that cuts off circulation which can cause a lot of pain too? I'm SO sorry you're in this.. I can't imagine what it would be like daily.. and NIGHTLY..

[sharpwaa]

Hello, as I previously mentioned I've had chronic neuropathy for several years now and the only night time relief I get is through being prescribed amitriptyline, paracetomol and rubbing the affected areas with oil of evening primrose.

Affected areas - Most Painful

Belly/Abdomen
Buttocks
Groin area
Inner and outer thighs
Calves
Feet
Forearms + hands

Affected Areas - Numb due to Neuropathy

Fingers
Elbows & upper arms
Hips
Both legs below the knees.
Feet (broke a toe in three places last year and never felt a thing)

It may seem strange that an area which is numb to all sensation, heat, cold, touch etc. is also one of the most painful. These are effects of the microvascular and nerve damage caused by the coating of excess sugar in the blood. This damage is irreversable. As I type this I am undergoing anti-biotic and anti-microbial treatment for a badly infected and ulcerated foot. Due to the neuropathy damage, it is very difficult to get a high enough concentration of anti-biotics to the affected area as the normal pathways are damaged or blocked. And BOY!! Do I feel lousy!!!!

Hey ho.........got to get back to re-decorating the kitchen, daughters 18th tomorrow. Yes I do think a neuropathy chat area would be useful.......take care now

D xx

[MCS]

I see that you have looked into this, My wifes doc switched her from Celexa and neurontin to Cymbalta and the Lyrica. Both worked in conjunction for her pain and SSRI.



Thought I'd follow-up my other post on this. My PCP tested for pancreatic cancer and I'm clear (thank God). The only thing she and the specialists can offer me is symtom control with Neurontin in higher doses. It's NOT working. MCS suggested Lyrica but it's contraindicated with one of the meds I'm on.

No improvement, the symptoms are still present and scale at 8 out of 10 now. Sleep is down to 30 minutes at a time. I'm exhausted, cranky and miserable. Arrrrggghhhh! :mad:

My numbers are in the 80s for the most part and aerage 95. I'm exercising daily. It doesn't seem that there's any relief in site, so I'm just hanging on, trying to make it through each day. I'm grateful to have these forums for a distraction.

We need a Neuropathy sub foum!

[NewdestinyX]

Hello, as I previously mentioned I've had chronic neuropathy for several years now and the only night time relief I get is through being prescribed amitriptyline, paracetomol and rubbing the affected areas with oil of evening primrose.

Affected areas - Most Painful

Belly/Abdomen
Buttocks
Groin area
Inner and outer thighs
Calves
Feet
Forearms + hands

Affected Areas - Numb due to Neuropathy

Fingers
Elbows & upper arms
Hips
Both legs below the knees.
Feet (broke a toe in three places last year and never felt a thing)

It may seem strange that an area which is numb to all sensation, heat, cold, touch etc. is also one of the most painful. These are effects of the microvascular and nerve damage caused by the coating of excess sugar in the blood. This damage is irreversable. As I type this I am undergoing anti-biotic and anti-microbial treatment for a badly infected and ulcerated foot. Due to the neuropathy damage, it is very difficult to get a high enough concentration of anti-biotics to the affected area as the normal pathways are damaged or blocked. And BOY!! Do I feel lousy!!!!I am SO sorry to hear of your cross to bear, Sharpwaa. It 'scares me to death'. Would you be willing to share with us how long you went undiagnosed - if you know? Or have you been treating your T2 for years? Your 'age bracket' if you're willing. Tell us a little more of the story about how you ended up here... Some of us feel a slight tingling in hands and feet and no real pain.. And we're recently diagnosed and in my case probably went undiagnosed for about 18 months to 2 years.. About a year ago I noticed a slight 'dead spot' in my right big toe that felt numb deep in.. Though it was my badly fungussed toe nails digging in.. Still don't know if that's part of it or if it's mild neuropathy starting.. The left toe has a similar but fainter sensation.. When I'm sitting for a long time the numbness in the toes and fingers is a little more noticeable and it's worse at night.. and pretty unnoticeable during day with shoes on and walking around - not noticeable at all when exercising. So I'm very mild but don't want it to progress.. Additionally my numbers are still 'high-ish' after 2 months on meds.. Still between 125-165. Since I started meds the tingling and warmness up into my calves has gone away.. So i hope that's a good sign that if I get this under control I'm just currently dealing with the 'acute neuropathy' which isn't permanent.

[NewdestinyX]

Hey ho.........got to get back to re-decorating the kitchen, daughters 18th tomorrow. Yes I do think a neuropathy chat area would be useful.......take care now

D xxSharp -- also just noticed your sig that you've been DX'ed since 2001 and yet your most recent A1c is over '10':eek: -- doesn't that mean that your pancreas isn't really working much anymore and maybe insulin would be a better way to manage it? Just still learning... You gotta get that number down as we all do..

Just wondering..

[sharpwaa]

Hello Grant,

Up to 4 years before my diagnosis in 2001 I had already been to the doctor with diabetes symptoms which were treated individually, such as unexplainable recurring thrush infections, thirst and frequent pee-ing, lethargy and tiredness. So I suppose I was symptomatic from about 1997 at age 34, which was a year after I left the Royal Air Force where I got annual aircrew medicals and this would have been picked up sooner. Bearing in mind my mother all her sisters and her parents were diabetic, the family history alone would have pointed in this direction. My first A1c was 23.5 and within a year on 2 x 500mg Metformin daily I got it down to 7.4. Over the last 4-5 years it's gradually climbed back up again peaking at 18.4 last November. My metformin dose was doubled and Gliclazide introduced to stimulate my pancreas prior to eating. It's come back down again to a more satisfactory 10 - ish. I won't be happy til I'm back down to below 7, but as you say, I'll probably be on insulin to acheive this. I simply don't know when they'll decide to do this. God Bless.

David

[NewdestinyX]

Hello Grant,

Up to 4 years before my diagnosis in 2001 I had already been to the doctor with diabetes symptoms which were treated individually, such as unexplainable recurring thrush infections, thirst and frequent pee-ing, lethargy and tiredness. So I suppose I was symptomatic from about 1997 at age 34, which was a year after I left the Royal Air Force where I got annual aircrew medicals and this would have been picked up sooner. Bearing in mind my mother all her sisters and her parents were diabetic, the family history alone would have pointed in this direction. My first A1c was 23.5 and within a year on 2 x 500mg Metformin daily I got it down to 7.4. Over the last 4-5 years it's gradually climbed back up again peaking at 18.4 last November. My metformin dose was doubled and Gliclazide introduced to stimulate my pancreas prior to eating. It's come back down again to a more satisfactory 10 - ish. I won't be happy til I'm back down to below 7, but as you say, I'll probably be on insulin to acheive this. I simply don't know when they'll decide to do this. God Bless.

DavidOf course most of us aren't medical professionals here.. but we know enough to agree that 10-ish is far from normal. From 23.5 yes.. But a sustained 10 for years and years can cause serious issues like you've described. My heart goes out to you. What a vicious disease. Using Glipizide to pound an already tired pancreas I'm told isn't the best approach. At this point your eyes are at risk and you want to avoid any amputation problems. Ask your doctor but it seems like insulin would be a great way to get that A1c closer to normal. Just to be on the record -- 7 - is still high. Most docs want it in the 5's.. and my doc says if he can get it in the mid to hi 4's he'd be happiest and virtually no chance of further organ/tissue damage.

Thanks for sharing your story. There are MANY herbal remedies and great drugs out there that can help your quality of life with regard to the neuropathy from what I've read and heard here, David. I'm praying you find the right combo for you. But tell your doc you want the 'no more damage to my nerves' course of action from him/her. :) Agreed? I'm pretty sure (s)he'll say insulin.

Best of luck!

[Dis-N-Dat]

Wow.. I"m blown away.. I don't understand. Can you describe your exact symptoms? It just doesn't sound like anything I've read about neuropathy.. Not in the 'center' of the body. Have you checked for Vitamin D deficiency (creates RICKETS and terrible painful thing like you describe) or Vitamin B12 deficiency that cuts off circulation which can cause a lot of pain too? I'm SO sorry you're in this.. I can't imagine what it would be like daily.. and NIGHTLY..

Very sharp stabbing pains, arms and legs. The docs don't want to take me off Neurontin (docs agree it's Neuropathy) or Celexa (hey who wouldn't be a bit depressed). I went to see a Dermatologist today and he hadn't anything to add to what I'm already doing.

[NewdestinyX]

Very sharp stabbing pains, arms and legs. The docs don't want to take me off Neurontin (docs agree it's Neuropathy) or Celexa (hey who wouldn't be a bit depressed). I went to see a Dermatologist today and he hadn't anything to add to what I'm already doing.About 2 or 3 times in the last 2 weeks I've been driving and there's been this 'stabbing' pain that appears in the side of my foot or in my big toe.. Once in the side of my hand.. Random but all stabbing -- just like you say.. Like a very pointed charley horse but more pointed and not elongated like a charley horse would be. It goes away after about 30 seconds.. thank god.. I couldn't imagine it happening constantly.. Maybe that's the super early signs of this neuropathy thing in me too. Course it could also be about 20 other things too.. But always in arms or legs.

SO sorry you have this. I hope you find even more relief. There are times in life when you have to go outside traditional american medicine and see what the Europeans are doing.. As the one person said here that they're 'curing' it in Germany with hi doses of ALA... I don't know what that's about.. But it wasn't until my wife read about a guy in Holland that realized his auto-immune non-rheumatoid inflammatory arthritis was 'worsened' by wheat products, that she found relief. Stopped the wheat on a dime -- and she now moves around like the 47 year old she is and not like a crippled 90 year old as she was moving. Off ALL meds.

So you NEVER know.

[Mich]

"Chronic Neuropathy" is incurable in any country. It's permanent nerve damage. It can be 'symptom' controlled to varying degrees but not cured.

Well the nerves do grow back at 0.1 millimeter a year - but that's usually not gonna make enough difference for a sufferer of Chronic Neur...

Dear Grant: I can tell you've never had a C-Section. ;) Ask any woman who has. You nerves re grow all the way from your incision to your navel in about six months.

That said, any treatment that stops the pain and returns feeling to previously numb areas qualifies as a "cure" in my book. I trust you are a researcher in the field and know more than some of these folks. I stopped at the end of the first Google page after searching "alpha lipoic acid germany neuropathy,"


Alpha-lipoic acid in the treatment of diabetic pol...[Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes. 1999] - PubMed Result (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10595592)
Alpha-lipoic acid (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/alpha-lipoic-000285.htm)

Alpha-Lipoic Acid for Diabetic Neuropathy - Brief Article | Family Practice News | Find Articles at BNET (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7342/is_7_31/ai_74699261/)

Clinical Trials (PDQ®) - National Cancer Institute (http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/MDA-CCC-0327)

Alpha lipoic acid for neuropathic pain [Archive] - CareCure Forums (http://sci.rutgers.edu/forum/archive/index.php/t-64828.html)

Outsmart Diabetes - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=_U3bEyKRdZAC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=Alpha+Lipic+Acid+Germany+neuropathy&source=bl&ots=tJTUdc80zU&sig=kiDo3Ae9mhsev10Vkt8PTJ8F6HE&hl=en&ei=nOyqStfQJMiEnQf8k9yfDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

And just for fun…
HowStuffWorks "Alpha Lipoic Acid and Peripheral Neuropathy" (http://health.howstuffworks.com/health-illness/wellness/natural-medicine/alternative-medicines/alpha-lipoic-acid5.htm)

Mich
Whose neuropathy has gone and she doesn't know where...
And who still encoourages those with neuropathic pain to try ALA as recommended by Dr Bernstein.

[NewdestinyX]

Dear Grant: I can tell you've never had a C-Section. ;) Ask any woman who has. You nerves re grow all the way from your incision to your navel in about six months. Well my wife's had two and the nerves on top of the incision site have 'never' come back to full feeling after 20 years. So I beg to differ.. But that's because the doctor 'botched' the surgery on the 2nd one and there was some tearing. Normal good surgery, Mich, doesn't 'damage' the nerves.. that's why all feeling 'should' return after a good surgery. But a well done Caesarian section and chronic neuropathy nerve damage are apples and oranges in comparison.

My grandmother had Guilian Beret (bur-AY') disease that truly damages nerves and the neurologist told us the time it takes for damaged nerves to grow back. I didn't just make it up. Chronic Neuropathy is a permanent damage. If the Neuropathy's gone away -- it was not the 'chronic' variety. It was the 'acute variety' which can, ironically seem chronic -- meaning be around for quite a while and then go away. And the new treatments seem to help with the 'acute' variety.

That said, any treatment that stops the pain and returns feeling to previously numb areas qualifies as a "cure" in my book. I trust you are a researcher in the field and know more than some of these folks. I stopped at the end of the first Google page after searching "alpha lipoic acid germany neuropathy,"I'm as much a researcher as anyone here who battles with preventing it or is experiencing some of the 'minor' variety called 'acute' and 'hoping' for those who have the chronic kind that there's hope for them. But so much of these articles are from the 'homeopathy' folks who, God bless 'em, will jump at any new study that talks about some newfangled herb or even some chemical supplements. I'm not saying that some of the research presented in those articles isn't promising -- what I am saying -- is that I'm not convinced they're 'cures' for the 'chronic' variety. Medical science, nor homeopathy, has been able to prove 'consistent' regeneration of 'nerves' that have been 'permanently damaged'. If you're 'cured' now - you didn't have the 'chronic' version. It's just that simple. And I don't want people to get false hope that ALA will 'cure' them if they have the 'permanent damage' variety of Neuropathy. ALA 'may' help with their 'symptoms'.. GREAT-- if that's been shown by studies.. But 'making it disappear' because you grew new nerve endings -- not buyin' it.

[Mich]

Grant, I guess you don't have to buy it. I posted it as a thing that some people on this board may want to try, reeminding them that it has worked for many.

I was surprised to hear that you consider the citations I posted to be from the "homeopathy folks" as I purposly chose only one from Rodale Press just for that reason. The others are University studies published in medical journals, an article in Family Practice News and of course, the Wikipedia article which contains its own citations (some of which are homeopathic.)

I guess we must call it a draw on C-section nerve regrowth, as that's what my surgeons told me both times.

I didn't realize we were discussing Guillian Barre Syndrome. I was under the mistaken impression we were discussing peripheral and autonomic neuropathy as experienced by people with diabetes. I'm thinking most people who come to this site are discussing the 'minor variety' called 'acute' as you so cavalierly call it, rather than the condition your grandmother had, and are looking for something to help. Inferring that nothing will 'cure' it may be misleading and even discouraging to those who could find great relief, including many old-timers like myself.

So, don't buy it. It's certainly Ok with me. Just try not to discourage people from trying something that may help them and that is recommended by some doctors. Let me know how it's going in 50 years.

Mich

[NewdestinyX]

Grant, I guess you don't have to buy it. I posted it as a thing that some people on this board may want to try, reeminding them that it has worked for many.

I was surprised to hear that you consider the citations I posted to be from the "homeopathy folks" as I purposely chose only one from Rodale Press just for that reason. The others are University studies published in medical journals, an article in Family Practice News and of course, the Wikipedia article which contains its own citations (some of which are homeopathic.)

I guess we must call it a draw on C-section nerve regrowth, as that's what my surgeons told me both times.

I didn't realize we were discussing Guillian Barre Syndrome. I was under the mistaken impression we were discussing peripheral and autonomic neuropathy as experienced by people with diabetes. I'm thinking most people who come to this site are discussing the 'minor variety' called 'acute' as you so cavalierly call it, rather than the condition your grandmother had, and are looking for something to help. Inferring that nothing will 'cure' it may be misleading and even discouraging to those who could find great relief, including many old-timers like myself.

So, don't buy it. It's certainly Ok with me. Just try not to discourage people from trying something that may help them and that is recommended by some doctors. Let me know how it's going in 50 years.

MichI'm all for what helps people, Mich. I was correcting your faulty claim that the nerve damage from 'chronic diabetic neuropathy' can be 'cured'. That was the only misleading thing you said. It can not. That's why I jumped in. If you have 'feeling' in your limbs where there was none before you didn't have the permanent nerve damage of 'Chronic Neuropathy' to begin with.

But I'm sure there are Doctors today that claim - anything's possible.. :) -- and for sufferer's sake here I sure hope medical science can find a cure for it that regrows the nerve endings faster. For now that science doesn't exist and I only wanted to counter the main claim you made.

I will be taking r-ALA starting soon myself. So I think we're on the same page there that this can be a wonderful help for sufferers of either variety. And maybe in 50 years there 'will' be a cure. Sure hope so. Though I'll probably be gone by then.

I rejoice with you at your health and relief from the pain finally. So glad you nerves weren't permanently damaged like so many others.

[fgummett]

I was correcting your faulty claim that the nerve damage from 'chronic diabetic neuropathy' can be 'cured'. That was the only misleading thing you said. It can not. That's why I jumped in. If you have 'feeling' in your limbs where there was none before you didn't have the permanent nerve damage of 'Chronic Neuropathy' to begin with.Perhaps you can post an authoritative scientific study to back up your absolute position?

By its very definition "permanent" anything is not subject to change... that does not have the same meaning as "chronic"

I am not sure where you got your definitions of "Acute" and "Chronic" but this one better fits my understanding of these terms:Often, people are confused as to what constitutes an acute disease. They believe an acute disease is always severe. In reality, an acute disease can be mild, severe, or even fatal. The term acute does not indicate the severity of the disease. Instead, it indicates how long the disease lasts and how quickly it develops. Examples of acute diseases include colds, influenza, and strep throat.

A chronic disease is persistent. It lasts for a long period of time and may recur. Like an acute disease, a chronic disease can be mild, severe, or fatal. Examples of chronic diseases include kidney disease, cancer, and diabetes. Unlike an acute disease, a chronic disease is likely to develop over time instead of having a sudden onset.

[NewdestinyX]

Perhaps you can post an authoritative scientific study to back up your absolute position?Ask any neurologist.. A Or Google chronic neuropathy. or 'complications of diabetes'. Pretty much every link you follow will teach us all what these terms mean. In at least 2 of the sources Mich cited there's a big bottle of Alpha Lipoic Acid by the company that sells it on the page with a link to buy it. Though I think ALA is WAY more than "snake oil" i just can't stand when people make wild claims of cures for this and that to people who are hurting. And probably won't be able to be 'cured'.

By its very definition "permanent" anything is not subject to change... that does not have the same meaning as "chronic"

I am not sure where you got your definitions of "Acute" and "Chronic" but this one better fits my understanding of these terms:Your definitions actually demonstrate my point, Frank :confused: . But I do agree that sometimes medical science seems to bend terms for distinction's sake when the more strict Webster's definition of the terms 'chronic' and 'acute' would allow for more wiggle room. In the case of 'neuropathy' it seems the important distinction is between the kind that 'doesn't get better' (short of new medical science breakthru's) and the kind that goes away after blood sugar is maintained.. And I guess I'm also open to Mich's distinction that for 'her' the pain is no longer happening -- so after a period of time she is no longer a 'chronic' sufferer. And I think that may be your point too.

The main clarification I wanted to bring was to this notion that, for those who have permanent nerve damage (has never gone away after BG is controlled), ALA is a cure. I believe that's an irresponsible thing to imply - especially when several of the source articles have links to vitamin shoppes where you can buy ALA.

[fgummett]

What I see is someone who -- in this and other examples -- either complains that no sources are cited or if they are, then casts aspersions about them but so far as I can tell has not provided any if his own. Of the links Mich provided, the majority are from journals or sites that do not rely on advertising... and of those that do use advertising, I did not see any vitamin or supplement adverts in my browser. So please let's be honest here... especially when the truth is just a mouse click away.

I don't have a neurologist in my back pocket so if you are able to back up your statement -- which I read as "chronic neuropathy is permanent and cannot be reversed" -- then please provide a reliable source... or possibly more than one, as you clearly feel it is widely known fact.

I fail to see how the definitions I provided demonstrate your point... perhaps you could explain. :confused: And as we are talking in a medical context I'm not sure that Webster's is a suitable reference.

"Permanent Neuropathy" can result from an acute condition... such as a post-operative infection.

"Chronic Neuropathy" more closely fits the description of a long-term complication of Diabetes -- in my view... and in many cases it can be controlled, or yes even reversed with improved BG levels.

I agree that it is wrong to raise peoples hopes but if we work off your definition then anyone with "Chronic Neuropathy" may as well not bother trying to improve it with better BG control, or any other treatment.

Once again... the two words "Chronic" and "Permanent" are not synonyms.

[NewdestinyX]

What I see is someone who -- in this and other examples -- either complains that no sources are cited or if they are, then casts aspersions about them but so far as I can tell has not provided any if his own. Of the links Mich provided, the majority are from journals or sites that do not rely on advertising... and of those that do use advertising, I did not see any vitamin or supplement adverts in my browser. So please let's be honest here... especially when the truth is just a mouse click away.Well use your mouse again Frank and look at these two:
Alpha lipoic acid for neuropathic pain [Archive] - CareCure ForumsThis is a forum. Hardly an authoritative journal.

Outsmart Diabetes - Google Books This has a giant clickable ad to an ALA distributor. Clear as day. Look in the right column. Please read more carefully Frank before you cast aspersions on my 'study' and 'due diligence'.

I don't have a neurologist in my back pocket so if you are able to back up your statement -- which I read as "chronic neuropathy is permanent and cannot be reversed" -- then please provide a reliable source... or possibly more than one, as you clearly feel it is widely known fact.Here is one of many definitions proving my point (http://www.springerlink.com/content/ttphrtbtj1equv00/)
"Permanent Neuropathy" can result from an acute condition... such as a post-operative infection.Fair enough.
"Chronic Neuropathy" more closely fits the description of a long-term complication of Diabetes -- in my view... and in many cases it can be controlled, or yes even reversed with improved BG levels.Not according to the sources I read.. but agree to disagree.
I agree that it is wrong to raise peoples hopes but if we work off your definition then anyone with "Chronic Neuropathy" may as well not bother trying to improve it with better BG control.They can 'cure' the 'acute' kind with better BG.. not the 'permanent' kind (Chronic).. I am seeing that we are having trouble with definitions here and that could be confusing.. Here we go: The kind that has 'not gone away after BG stabilization for more than a year is 'not curable' short of new medical science advances and is not 'cured' by ALA either.. I think that's a more 'precise' argument on my end.
Once again... the two words "Chronic" and "Permanent" are not synonyms.In the definitions I've read for Neuropathy -- they are.. But in my dark red "new: definition above it's summed up better, the 'correction' I was trying to make to Mich. Thanks for sharpening my argument, Frank.

[fgummett]

Perhaps it is again a browser difference but I do not see any click-able ad in the Google Books link Outsmart Diabetes - Google Books (http://books.google.com/books?id=_U3bEyKRdZAC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=Alpha+Lipic+Acid+Germany+neuropathy&source=bl&ots=tJTUdc80zU&sig=kiDo3Ae9mhsev10Vkt8PTJ8F6HE&hl=en&ei=nOyqStfQJMiEnQf8k9yfDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

However, in the link that you provided I do see several Google Ads such as :

Diabetic Nerve Pain
Works in minutes, Fast temporary relief, no side effects
Neuragen - Fast Relief from Nerve Pain

Peripheral Neuropathy
Free info for Peripheral Neuropathy patients on reliable herbal options
Neuropathy-Help

and so on... What I don't see is anything resembling your position which I re-stated above as "chronic neuropathy is permanent and cannot be reversed" ...but I don't have access to the full article.. perhaps you do.. if so could you provide a quote?

Once again I am in full agreement that "Permanent Neuropathy" is by its very definition currently untreatable BUT that is not the same as "Chronic Neuropathy".

[fgummett]

You say "Not according to the sources I read..." and "In the definitions I've read for Neuropathy"... sorry of I am sceptical but what sources and definitions have you read?

It just seems to me that if you make absolute statements on a health related forum you ought to be able to back them up... is that unreasonable or do you expect us to just take your word for it?

[Mich]

Grant, I have two problems with your statement that chronic neuropathy can't be cured.

First of all, if mine wasn't chronic, I don't know what would be. It lasted in many forms for twenty years. It got better to the point of disappearing when I began to take ALA. I'm not a good vitamin taker. Sometimes I forget for a week at a time. The thing that reminds me to resume is that my neuropathic pain returns. For probably the best definition of Neurpoathies, check out the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke. It lists many more types of neuropathies than you list and specifically says this about peripheral neuropathy caused by diabetes mellitus:
Self-care skills such as meticulous foot care and careful wound treatment in people with diabetes and others who have an impaired ability to feel pain can alleviate symptoms and improve quality of life. Such changes often create conditions that encourage nerve regeneration.


The NINDS page can be found here: Peripheral Neuropathy Fact Sheet: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) (http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/peripheralneuropathy/detail_peripheralneuropathy.htm)

And my second problem with your statement is that is is darned rude to say anything at all that might discourage a person, particularly if you, even erroneously ;) consider it incurable.

I also agree we're pretty much all in this together and we already have enoough "incurable" stuff going on here. Please don;'t feel the need to point out more and I for one, promise to forgive you that oversight.

Mich

[NewdestinyX]

I know this thread's been dead for a while -- but rather than start a new one let me just report that after about 4 months of getting serious about BG control and in this last month starting the Lantus -- the burning in my feet at night -- tingling in lower legs and feet and tingling in hands have all gone away.

And even the two dead spots in my big toes -- there for over 18 months are starting to come alive again.. I seem to have almost full sensation there again..

So that should be an encouragement to any of you who may have had the 'acute'or even the 'chronic' form of neuropathy and have noticed these symptoms and are recently diagnosed with T2. Some of you have had it for longer or for whatever reason you still don't have relief and my heart really goes out to you as not all neuropathies will go away from what I've read. But if you're recently diagnosed and you also noticed these typical diabetic complication symptoms -- control of your blood glucose, via any means, CAN turn things around significantly as they have with me. :D

SOOOOOO relieved!!!!