Counting carbs, but...

[Doodle]

I'm cutting back on my carb intake and have been doing pretty good. However, with counting carbs, should I, also, be counting calories? I've been told that I count one or the other, but not both. This doesn't make sense to me because it would seem that too many calories would make you gain weight on top of all of the fat that is associated with low-carb foods. I have a couple of friends that have followed the Atkin's Diet and they say they can eat ALL they want as long as it's no-carb or low-carb, but that just doesn't seem possible. It seems to me that there should be some cut off when it comes to eating. I mean, there is such a thing as eating too much.

[Granny Shanny]

Anything taken to extreme is questionable, but I'm losing weight without limiting fats. I'm limiting carbs pretty sharply, but I'm not counting calories. I expect I'll come around to limiting fats somewhat eventually, but at the outset, it just made it easier for me to give up my baked potato if I could still put a nice sturdy spoonful of butter on my spinach! :D

Actually, the protein & fats (especially the fats) promote a feeling of satiety that carbs just don't provide. Eating carbs just stimulates hunger for more carbs. So if I eat a cheese stick or a Slim Jim, that ounce of protein & fat is a lot more satisfying longer term than a stack of cookies.

I think you'll be fine watching your carbs & letting the calories take care of themselves. I don't think you'll be overeating.

I explained it a little more fully on another board last week:

Lower carb does not mean Atkins (http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/type-2-diabetes/43182-januvia-and-cancer-increase.html#post495207)

[ShottleBop]

I lost 65 pounds counting carbs and letting the calories take care of themselves.

[jps]

I lost over 80 lbs by cutting down carbs, increasing fats and NOT counting calories.

However, somewhere along the line, portion control had to be addressed. But I found that filling up on protein and fats filled me far more quickly than carbs. Think about it. Eat a six ounce piece of meatloaf. Now eat six ounces of potato chips. Which one fills you more? For me, it wasn't even close.

[jkane13]

I never count either. I have lost 120 lbs so far. My Blood Sugar is around 100-110 down from 180.

I just pay attention. Keep portions small, and avoid potatoes, bread, and pasta. I also eat only 1-3 bites of a dessert like cake or something I know has lot's of sugar in it.

I prefer just not eating so much. I do count my weight at least once a day, and usually twice a day. Then I think back about what I ate in the past 24 hours and compare that to how I gain or loose weight from it. Same with sugar and starch. Looking at what the meter says 2 hours later tells me if I can have more or less of it.

Oh yeah, I exercise whether I want to or not. Every day without fail. That is just as important.

Anyone who tells you to focus on one thing and ignore the other is either stupid, or thinks you are too stupid to understand the whole picture! I really get irritated when people look at me and ask what my secret is for weight loss and BS control. No secret! No one thing! It is looking at the whole picture and doing ALL the right things and never give up!

[fgummett]

My understanding is that our bodies know how to deal with real whole foods (what we evolved eating)... including recognising when we have had enough...

Drink a can of cola or even a glass of OJ and the body does not recognise that we have just ingested a massive hit of refined sugar... but try eating the same amount of sugar in the form of broccoli and you soon get the message... enough already! :T

By the same token and as already mentioned, certain foods seem to be more satisfying and self-limiting: for myself I could (in the old days) eat a huge stack of pancakes dripping in syrup, or a pile of toast with jam... probably going back for seconds! But I'd get quickly full if I ever tried to eat the same sized stack of steak or pork chops.

I don't count calories... I don't even count carbs anymore... I just eat real whole foods that are naturally very low in refined/concentrated carbohydrates. I enjoy my food and do not feel in the least bit deprived :)

[jer.lawrence]

Thanks for this post, as I've been wondering the same thing. I've been limiting carbs but not worrying about calories or fat -- I have been trying to watch portion sizes, but even slacking on that a little bit lately. I've lost maybe 7 or 8 pounds in the last 3 weeks or so. That's not a lot, but it's a good start.

I have also been walking a mile or two about five days a week though, compared to no exercise that I got before. Since you're unable to do that (what, with your foot and all), it may be a good idea to keep an eye on calories and fat as well.. I don't know.

I wouldn't say limit them drastically -- your body needs energy from somewhere to function. Just keep an eye on them, ya know? :)

Good luck to you, and thanks for the post. I look forward to more responses.

[PERKDOUG]

Fat in the low carb diet is pretty much self regulating. You can overeat fat but, you have to work at it. You can however, overeat protein laden foods. Remember that excess protein intake is broken down into approximately 52% glucose. This is a common failure of those who claim to be on the Atkins Diet when in reality they never even read his diet book. As a guideline, the approximate daily amount of protein foods (meat, eggs, cheese) is one pound of meat, cheese, eggs ect. combined. That is one pound total, not one pound each. You pay no attention to the protein content of the vegetables recommended on Atkins. These vegetables recommended are called 5% vegetables because they contain about 5% carbs and are so restricted in quantity that their protein contribution is trivial.

[xMenace]

I'm cutting back on my carb intake and have been doing pretty good. However, with counting carbs, should I, also, be counting calories? I've been told that I count one or the other, but not both. This doesn't make sense to me because it would seem that too many calories would make you gain weight on top of all of the fat that is associated with low-carb foods. I have a couple of friends that have followed the Atkin's Diet and they say they can eat ALL they want as long as it's no-carb or low-carb, but that just doesn't seem possible. It seems to me that there should be some cut off when it comes to eating. I mean, there is such a thing as eating too much.

This is an interesting comment which hilights much of the dietary thinking over the last century. Most of it is totally wrong.

It is appearing more and more that fat storage is a homeostasis mechanism. That is our bodies control our fat levels by means of hormones. Increase the fat storage hormones and you gain weight, lower the fat storage hormone and you will lose weight. Though your mileage may vary, it does appear that simple.

This particular hormone is called insulin, and it is primarily responsive to carbohydrates. Those of us who have tried low carbing will attest that lowering carbs makes you lose weight and increasing them makes you gain weight. The fat you consume makes almost no difference. Protein does have an impact as it goes through a process called gluconeogenesis where about 58% of it gets converted to carbs.

Watch carbs and to a lesser extent protein, and don't worry about calories.

[foxl]

.... what Granny said!

I have plateaued but also just got taken off Actos -- a TZD, which is a class of meds known to increase adipose tissue storage. I have not been watching calorie intake, but might start to, if I do not lose these last 20 ... eventually.

[fgummett]

Junkfood Science: The first Law of Thermodynamics in real life (http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html)
“Body weight is remarkably stable in humans,” explained Dr. Jeffrey M. Friedman, M.D., Ph.D., head of the Laboratory of Molecular Genetics at Rockefeller University in New York. “The average human consumes one million or more calories per year, yet weight changes very little in most people. These facts lead to the conclusion that energy balance is regulated with a precision of greater than 99.5%, which far exceeds what can be consciously monitored.” In fact, error ranges in food calorie labels, assessed by calorimetry, are typically greater than 10%!
...Dr. Sims then had to find a group of naturally lean people who would devote themselves to trying to get fat so that he could study them and compare them to people who were naturally fat. This led him to conduct his famous prison studies, published in 1968.

Groups of “equally dedicated volunteers at the Vermont State Prison” signed up, committed to eating as much as they could for 200 days to try to get fat. Far from being easy, it wasn’t. In fact, most of the men found it so extremely difficult that many considered dropping out. Forcing themselves to eat so much became so unpleasant a few even barfed after breakfast. “Most of them developed an aversion to breakfast,” wrote Dr. Sims. Virtually all of them at least doubled the amount of food they usually ate and simultaneously reduced their activity, and many were eating as much as 9,000 to 10,000 kcal/day he said. Still, only twenty men managed to gain 20 to 25% of their weight with great difficulty and the others couldn’t, even though they were consuming more calories than the others, wrote Dr. Sims.

Once the prisoners had gained weight, their metabolisms had increased by 50%. The men who were able to reach their goal weight found that they could only maintain their weight gain by continuing to overeat — on average ten times more than theoretically should have been necessary for their new size.

[notme]

I limit carbs, I don't count calories, but I do watch my caloric intake. I eat mostly whole foods and I stay away from packaged anything. I limit fats. I have lost weight and feel healthy.

[Allison]

I've lost 60lbs since March just by lowering carbs...I fell off the wagon for about 3 months gained a little and got back on full force about 2 months ago. I eat anything low-no carb that I want and I don't really watch portions/calories/fat all that much if at all. I do agree with what others here have said also...low carb fills you up faster. I hardly ever go back for seconds now, whereas before when pasta and bread was part of the menu I couldn't seem to get enough. One thing I have noticed, and this may just be my darn luck, but I HAVE to exercise everyday because of the calories and fat I'm consuming. Otherwise pounds start creeping back within a day or two. I know this because my method is to weigh everyday. I would rather know that I've gained a pound in one day and be able to work harder at the gym that day to take it plus some more off..than to weigh once a week like most "experts" say..and realize at the end of that week that I may have gained 3 pounds and feel overwhelmed by it. Plus, exercising makes me feel goooooood now, so it's an enjoyable thing.

[Granny Shanny]

I hardly ever go back for seconds now, whereas before when pasta and bread was part of the menu I couldn't seem to get enough.

Hear hear! Not only do I not go back for seconds anymore, there are days I can't even finish my "firsts"! I'll leave the last few bites of pork chop or whatever, and finish it later for an evening snack.

This is a totally new "me"! I've been a member of the clean plate club for 60 years, and if there was bread on the table, I could eat half a loaf easily! :D :D :D

[foxl]

Hear hear! Not only do I not go back for seconds anymore, there are days I can't even finish my "firsts"! I'll leave the last few bites of pork chop or whatever, and finish it later for an evening snack.

This is a totally new "me"! I've been a member of the clean plate club for 60 years, and if there was bread on the table, I could eat half a loaf easily! :D :D :D

Add ME to the club!

[cyberus]

Anything taken to extreme is questionable, but I'm losing weight without limiting fats. I'm limiting carbs pretty sharply, but I'm not counting calories. I expect I'll come around to limiting fats somewhat eventually, but at the outset, it just made it easier for me to give up my baked potato if I could still put a nice sturdy spoonful of butter on my spinach! :D

Actually, the protein & fats (especially the fats) promote a feeling of satiety that carbs just don't provide. Eating carbs just stimulates hunger for more carbs. So if I eat a cheese stick or a Slim Jim, that ounce of protein & fat is a lot more satisfying longer term than a stack of cookies.

I think you'll be fine watching your carbs & letting the calories take care of themselves. I don't think you'll be overeating.

I explained it a little more fully on another board last week:

Lower carb does not mean Atkins (http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/type-2-diabetes/43182-januvia-and-cancer-increase.html#post495207)

Agreed and well said.

I don't count calories ... now. I kept track when I first started low carbing because I had read that its easy to overdo while your body is adjusting to the new diet ... I gave up after a while because as mentioned, I was getting full faster and calories weren't an issue anymore.

[fgummett]

Some folks have this attitude that eating the way I do I must feel deprived... not being able to enjoy the same kinds of foods that they like...

On the contrary I can't imagine anything more likely to destroy my enjoyment of eating than having to weight and measure every mouthful... 7/16 of a slice of bread, 8.5 almonds, 2oz of skinless chicken breast, a cup of greens :eek:

I get to eat until I am satisfied, without staring longingly at that other 9/16 of the slice of bread :)

BTW I don't eat (or miss) bread...

[foxl]

I weigh foods as I prepare them ... an ounce of cheese or nuts, typically is when I bother to weigh. Or fresh tomatoes, or onions. Not a big deal, but I can see not bothering; I just worry about portion creepage in higher-fat or higher-carb foods.

[fgummett]

I weigh foods as I prepare them...I learned to cook with my older sisters and then in a restaurant... I don't think I could ever follow an exact recipe... still my son seems to enjoy my "creations" ;)

[Granny Shanny]

I learned to cook with my older sisters and then in a restaurant... I don't think I could ever follow an exact recipe... still my son seems to enjoy my "creations" ;)

Most of my "creations" turn out okay anymore . . . but that may not have been the case many years ago when I was first learning to love cooking.

As far as following a recipe - that is the hardest thing in the world for me! If people have raved about it, I have to force myself to prepare it exactly as written the first time, and save the tweaking for later. Believe it or not, there are a coupla things I've found over the years that I absolutely will not tweak - they were so good exactly by the recipe. (now why should that surprise me?! :D :D :D)

I have a soup recipe I'll post over in the proper forum - it came from a Branson restaurant that's since closed its doors. I don't even know where I got the recipe, but the first thing I remember thinking about it, is that it needed potatoes. But I made myself stick to the recipe, and it's so stunning that I've never monkeyed with it in all the years since.

[cyberus]

Some folks have this attitude that eating the way I do I must feel deprived... not being able to enjoy the same kinds of foods that they like...

On the contrary I can't imagine anything more likely to destroy my enjoyment of eating than having to weight and measure every mouthful... 7/16 of a slice of bread, 8.5 almonds, 2oz of skinless chicken breast, a cup of greens :eek:

I get to eat until I am satisfied, without staring longingly at that other 9/16 of the slice of bread :)

BTW I don't eat (or miss) bread...

I missed bread ... now I have low carb bread, pitas and tortillias. A slice of low carb toast w/breakfast makes my eggs *feel* more breakfast-y rather than 'just food'. I know its all a mental thing but for me it helps.

[Doodle]

The one thing I've noticed that a few of you mentioned is that I'm not going back for seconds. Not even meat (which I just love). I'm cutting back on the red meats because my triglycerides were high. So, I'm eating more chicken and other meats.

I went to the grocery store today and got the foods I need to keep me on track. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the store Aldi's, but that's where we do our shopping. We bought 173 items and it cost $180. I about flipped. That comes out to about a $1 an item, give or take. There were a few items that I got at Walmart simply because Aldi's didn't carry it. But, all in all, I got about 95% of my groceries at Aldi's.

I'm gonna try just counting carbs and not the calories because, like a few had said, I'm not going back for seconds. And it's not like I'm piling up my plate in the first place.

The exercising is going to have to wait until my foot heals. At least any exercises that require me to walk or stand on my feet for more than 5 minutes. I did do some light weights (2 lb. dumb bells) while sitting on the couch and some crunches and leg lifts, as well. I just laid down on the couch. At least that way I'm getting in a little activity. AND, I found out that I can play Wii bowling and tennis while sitting in a chair, also. LOL

[Granny Shanny]

I found out that I can play Wii bowling and tennis while sitting in a chair, also. LOL

That's one of the tricks used in the rehab unit when DH was recuperating from hip replacement. Lots of the patients responded well to Wii bowling. Every little bit helps! :D