Are Pre-D's Doomed?

[binnieman]

What is a pre-diabetics goal? How can I stop obsessing and being afraid of eating? I was DX'd July 2nd and after that I have limited all empty carb sources. My diet prior to that was quite balanced anyway but more of my energy was coming from carbs but now I am probably at less than 100 g of carbs per day. I have always been in good weight. With this new diet, I lost about 8 pounds. That is a lot for someone who weighs only 150 lbs to begin with. Exercise is a way of life for me so all I had to do was intensify it even more. With all these, I am still waking up over 100 (100-105) pretty much every morning. Post meal depends on how much and what I ate. Usually, if I eat just one kind of food, say just steak or chicken with small salad or fruit, I am good but if I eat even a small amount of well cooked foods like spicy foods or curries even with no rice or past, I go up to 130. I feel like I am doomed because I was hoping my FBG to be in the 90's by now if not lower but the good news is I like this lifestyle better so I will continue this way no matter what my BG numbers turn out to be. In any case, the conventional belief that higher BG is a result of being overweight or bad lifestyle, that is a fallacy because I am the opposite of that. It is almost purely bad luck that causes high BG in my opinion.

[sorka]

I know where you're coming from. I'm 6' 5" and was 230 but lost 55 lbs and it made no difference on my fasting BGs.

My recent fasting insulin coupled with a 108 BG reading shows that I'm making almost no insulin while fasting.

All typical antibodies have been ruled out which makes me atypical as thin non insulin resistant people don't usually have BG problems unless something is attacking their pancreas.

Have you had any antibody testing done? The usual suspect is GAD65.

Also, you may be spiking into the 130s, but if you're down below 120 within an hour and below 100 within 2 hours, your post meal sugars are fine.

I do everything I can to keep any spiking which is why I do heavy lifting after any meal that has significant carbs in it if I'm at home.

This morning, I ate half of a wholewheat bagel with creamcheeze salmon and within 30 minutes, I was up to 130. I did 10 minutes of cardio and 20 minutes of squats, lat pull downs, and pectoral presses on my bench and at 50 minutes after I finished eating, it was back down to 81. I've tried exactly the same meal without working out, and done both enough to know that it's consistent, and at 50 minutes my BG would still be in the 130s although if I did nothing, by 2 hours it would be back down to under 100 but the exercise gets me there sooooo much faster.

[binnieman]

I was advised by someone here as well to do C-peptide to rule out LADA. I will start with that on the next blood work. The weird thing for me is when I consume a beverage or a pastry that contains 50 g or more of carbs, my BG comes down to where it was two hours prior to that consumption but meals full of spices and curries tend to keep my BG at around 130 two hours later. I have not done controlled testing involving exercise but that is on my list as well. Needless to say, the whole blood sugar regulation process is quite a riddle.

[ADSOFT]

Yep, I think we are doomed. There is an over 50% chance that we will become full blown D'S.


From what I have read all you can do is prolong it, and hope you don't get a heart attack!!

When I was in my twenties my blood pressure was never under 128. I knew something was wrong.


Sorry to be so blunt, but I have accepted it. I'm making lifestyle changes every day.


From what I have read the best thing you can do is start to limit your carbs per meal and keep the glycemic index down. I try to stay under 70 grams per meal, getting white bread out of my meals: No more hamburger buns for me, that's my only source.

I'm also going on the Vegan diet, I'm not going for the low carb, high protien, high fats approach. Some feel that it leads to more insulin resistance. I'm also dropping the 25lbs that I carried for 7 years. I've probobly already dropped 15lbs with my Miller High Life Diet and 1 hr or cardio, walking basically, a day.

I guess all you can do is try to lower the percentages and try to stay ahead of the insulin resistance or lower you carbic load if your pancreas is decreasing in function.

Lowering carbic load per meal and a vegan diet is the best thing I have found so far. Drinking Miller Lite at night shuts down my liver and the love handles are comming down.

.... It seems to be working for me for now, but who knows for how long.


IMHO, limited use of alcholol is a must for Pre-D's.

[Subby]

Yep, I think we are doomed. There is an over 50% chance that we will become full blown D'S.
From what I have read all you can do is prolong it, and hope you don't get a heart attack!!

Even if this statistic is correct, though you don't provide any backing for where it comes from and why we should believe it so it is hard to say, calling a 50% chance of anything occurring as being "doomed" seems completely negative and over the top. Is that your intention? Why is that "doomed"? Doomed means along the lines of "cursed" "certain to fail" "marked for death". If pre diabetics need to think along those lines, us type 1s may as well just go off a cliff now.

Seriously, does this approach have a place on a board which is here not only to share valid information and personal experience, but also to positively support and help against fear and negativity that is so easy given a chronic condition?

[sorka]

Adsoft, it's aswome that the alcohol in your beer is helping a lot. It does this via two mechanisms:

1) Alcohol keeps your liver busy so it can't dump glucose.
2) Alcohol improves the efficiency of insulin.

These two reasons above are why alcohol is such a big no no if you're on insulin. Some, over years of experience and very careful dosing, can drink when taking insulin, but it's difficult to get right so it's better that most avoid it.

However, beer does contain quite a bit of carbs compared to liquor and wine.

Have you considered drinking red wine instead. I have one to two 5 oz glasses each night.

Also, since alcohol helps you keep your sugars down, have you considered Metformin? It works via the same two mechanisms above but is safer for your liver if you're drinking more than moderately which from your previous posts you are.

The other problem with more than moderate consumption is a dramatic rise in the instance of pancreatitis which, if not accute can have no symptoms at all except slow scarring of the pancreas over time.

Interestingly, studies have also shown that alcohol at moderate levels decreases the chance of pancreatitis.

[fgummett]

Even accepting a 50% statistical chance (which I doubt) that still gives a 50% chance of NOT going on to develop full-blown Type 2.

To me a diagnosis of Pre-Diabetes is a golden opportunity... but the outcome is very much up to you. I see Type 2 D as a continuum which develops/progresses over many years (perhaps as many as 20) so the sooner you get the "heads up" that your BG management system is slipping, the sooner you can do something about it and then stop, delay, prevent or even reverse the onset and complications of D.

I've used this analogy before and I will stick with it as it seem apt: it is far easier to lower the water pressure and/or shore up a dam, than to try and repair it after it has failed.

Yes there is an element of genetic predisposition but I maintain that the main part of developing Type 2 D is environment and chiefly diet. Recognise that and use it to your advantage. I sure wish I had known 7 or more years ago what I know today.

[ShottleBop]

Jenny Ruhl, in Blood Sugar 101 (the book), reports:

The Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging diabetes study also found that a person in their fifties who has normal blood sugar has roughly a 1 in 8 chance of becoming diabetic over the next decade. A person who already has impaired glucose tolerance has a 4 in 10 chance of progressing to diabetes over a decade while a person with impaired fasting glucose has almost a 1 in 2 chance of progressing to diabetes. Again, this suggests that fasting blood sugar control is the last part of blood sugar control to deteriorate.

[Kosmo29]

I hope I am not doomed. I have two type 2 parents and I am only 29 and pre-diabetic. I like to think I can still fight this off!

[sorka]

Jenny Ruhl, in Blood Sugar 101 (the book), reports:

Except that in my case it was the first. Several years ago when I knew I had occasional fasting over 110, my post prandial one and two hour tests were ALWAYS below 100 and usually smack right in the middle of the 80's.

Even now, when I spike to 120s and even sometimes 130s, it's back below 100 within 2 hours which by ADA guidlines is normal glucose control, yet my fasting is not good...except for the last 8 mornings it has been in the 80s since trying the right before bedtime snack of mixed nuts and cheese(see the snack before bedtime thread).

Still to even see it spike into the 130s even if it's only briefly tells me that my post prandial numbers are worse than they used to be.

[ADSOFT]

Adsoft, it's aswome that the alcohol in your beer is helping a lot. It does this via two mechanisms:

1) Alcohol keeps your liver busy so it can't dump glucose.
2) Alcohol improves the efficiency of insulin.

These two reasons above are why alcohol is such a big no no if you're on insulin. Some, over years of experience and very careful dosing, can drink when taking insulin, but it's difficult to get right so it's better that most avoid it.

However, beer does contain quite a bit of carbs compared to liquor and wine.

Have you considered drinking red wine instead. I have one to two 5 oz glasses each night.

Also, since alcohol helps you keep your sugars down, have you considered Metformin? It works via the same two mechanisms above but is safer for your liver if you're drinking more than moderately which from your previous posts you are.

The other problem with more than moderate consumption is a dramatic rise in the instance of pancreatitis which, if not accute can have no symptoms at all except slow scarring of the pancreas over time.

Interestingly, studies have also shown that alcohol at moderate levels decreases the chance of pancreatitis.

I drink Miller-Lite, and the lbs are comming off and my tryglicerides are fine, I'm doing more cardio to burn tryglicerdes, eating oatmeal, walnuts and Garlic, as recommended by our families cardiologist. ... It works for me, I'm not saying everyone should be on alcholol.


I made my post in the Pre-D section because it was intended for Pre-D's not Type 2's or Type 1's.

Regarding the metformin. My mom takes metformin,and it's not the silver bullet everyone claims to think. She has to take protonix, and so many other issues, it's just not worth it. Miller- High Life and cardio work better for me.


Alcohol is recommended by the American Heart Assoc. actually red wine is. I might try red wine in the future, at this point I'm focusing on losing 25 lbs I'm over 1/2 way there. I used to drink Miller High Life which is high on carbs. I gained my 25 lbs, when I changed to Miller High Life from Miller Lite.

I have 100% confidence that I wll be back under 200lbs in One week. I've done it many times but I always went back to Miller High Life, ... Miller Lite for life for me. My FGB is pushing 89-91 on it too. I'm feeling better too. So I'm sticking with it. ... thanks for the advice though.

I have a lot of issues with Metformin, personally, I doubt that I will ever take it. If I have to control my condition with drugs then I'm going to get a SULF first. I have had a lot of discussions with people on the subject of SULFs vs. METFORMIN. I really don't want to discuss them anymore. But, I do appreciate the advice.

[ADSOFT]

Jenny Ruhl, in Blood Sugar 101 (the book), reports:


The Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging diabetes study also found that a person in their fifties who has normal blood sugar has roughly a 1 in 8 chance of becoming diabetic over the next decade. A person who already has impaired glucose tolerance has a 4 in 10 chance of progressing to diabetes over a decade while a person with impaired fasting glucose has almost a 1 in 2 chance of progressing to diabetes. Again, this suggests that fasting blood sugar control is the last part of blood sugar control to deteriorate.

Thanks, I was sort of bummed out for about 2-3 days when I read that. I fall into the 50% catergory.


I went to the bookstore and bought 3 books on the subject.


I'm just living my life like I have it, I figure that's the best I can do.

[ADSOFT]

I hope I am not doomed. I have two type 2 parents and I am only 29 and pre-diabetic. I like to think I can still fight this off!

I would go get some books and get better informed, the sooner you start the better.

[fgummett]

At the risk of seeming pedantic AND as a full-blown Type 2 who has -- through 85+ lbs weight loss and dietary control -- effectively reversed my D to what the ADA would class as Pre-D levels...

"almost a 1 in 2 chance" does not equal "an over 50% chance"

And I stand by my sentiment -- as shared by others -- that even accepting a 50% chance, far from meaning you are doomed... still means an equal chance of NOT progressing to full-blown Type 2 D. In fact I would go further and say that simply having come here to DF and possibly taking advantage of lessons learned... including from those of us who have full-blown D... you have already and significantly improved your odds of not getting full-blown Type 2 D.

[Granny Shanny]

At the risk of seeming pedantic AND as a full-blown Type 2 who has -- through 85+ lbs weight loss and dietary control -- effectively reversed my D to what the ADA would class as Pre-D levels...

"almost a 1 in 2 chance" does not equal "an over 50% chance"

And I stand by my sentiment -- as shared by others -- that even accepting a 50% chance, far from meaning you are doomed... still means an equal chance of NOT progressing to full blown D. In fact I would go further and say that simply having come here to DF and possibly taking advantage of lessons learned... including by those of us who have full blown D... you have already and significantly improved your odds of not getting full blown D.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b202/sneezytwo/truedat.gif

[ADSOFT]

Seriously, does this approach have a place on a board which is here not only to share valid information and personal experience, but also to positively support and help against fear and negativity that is so easy given a chronic condition?

I've read this in many books as well as the link mentioned.
The Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging diabetes study also found that a person in their fifties who has normal blood sugar has roughly a 1 in 8 chance of becoming diabetic over the next decade. A person who already has impaired glucose tolerance has a 4 in 10 chance of progressing to diabetes over a decade while a person with impaired fasting glucose has almost a 1 in 2 chance of progressing to diabetes. Again, this suggests that fasting blood sugar control is the last part of blood sugar control to deteriorate.

Look, I know that you are Type 1 and I'm not familiar with the issuess of Type 1. This is the Pre-D forum and I'm more well read with thier issues. People with Pre-D are not being informed well, that's why Diabetes is an epidemic!!!!!

I would NEVER tell a Pre-D that everything is ok and go eat whatever you want, and don't worry you might not get it. That's what doctors are telling people and most of them are getting Type II. That's what happened to me 1 1/2 years ago, doctor told me I'm fine, instead of telling me about Syndrome X.

Why am I going to support a guy who is showing signs of DANGER AHEAD???? :confused:



I'm sure that I'm going to be doing myself a favor by telling my self oh, I'm not going to get it, there is only a 50% chance, I'm going to cross my fingers.

I'm sorry, but the issues of a Pre-D and a Type 1 are little different.


I can't believe that you would be supportive of someone who's lab results show that he is headed for danger, especially if the odds are 50% or over of him comming down with something. For your information, people with Pre-D are at very high risk of getting a Heart Attack!!!!! Why, because they think everything is fine but when glucose starts creeping up it usually means cardiovascular issues.

Look I hope he doesn't get it, but he has to start getting proactive now. Not be supportive and tell him that everything is ok and let him go. .. what is should do, on top of watching his diet, is go find out what his HDL, LDL, Trygls, blood pressure, BMI are at and get those under control Now, as well as work on his Glucose management. And jump on Cardio and Excercise.


Anyhow, this guy might be around the corner of a heart attack. I think the best advice is to inform them to get proactive now. That IMHO is being supportive and informative torwards him and his family.

[ADSOFT]

And I stand by my sentiment -- as shared by others -- that even accepting a 50% chance, far from meaning you are doomed... still means an equal chance of NOT progressing to full-blown Type 2 D. In fact I would go further and say that simply having come here to DF and possibly taking advantage of lessons learned... including from those of us who have full-blown D... you have already and significantly improved your odds of not getting full-blown Type 2 D.


Well I'm sorry, but you are not well informed about the issues of Pre-D's.

Your glass is half empty approach is very flawed when it comes to Pre-D. Glucose doesn't just go up because it wants to. It usually has to do with Syndrome X, and like I mentioned before Pre-Ds are at very high risk of heart attacks and vascular issues.

Sure, comming here is going to decrease your chances. But it's not fool proof, you can take all the precautions and still get it or have a tough time fighting it off.

Some people can reverse their Pre-D by losing weight but they still get it anyway.

I don't want to call unwanted attention to any members by name. But there is a member here who is watching his diet, doing wieghts, excercise and he could only hold his BG's under 100 for a few years.

Sure Diabetes is not a death sentence, but getting proactive about it and taking it seriously is important. And unfortionatly, the books that I have read claim 56% so that's more than half full.

I'm pretty much living like I have it, and will be for life and will be checking my blood twice a year now. I'm looking at it like I have it, and everyone in my family is going to be eating responsibly and excercising and staying away from high glycemic foods. I'm not going to let them wait till they have Pre-D and let them think the glass is half full at that time, or let them eat what they want because they don't have to worry about getting D for 20 years. I'm getting them started now.

[Josselyn]

Dear ADSOFT,

Speaking as one who came here teetering from pre-D to Type 2 in a very short amount of time, your information and statistics would have scared me witless. And you know what? I know it was supposed to do just that. Tough love, on some level. And it works for many because statistics like that - accurate or not - are beyond sobering.
But it would not have galvanized me into action.
It would have paralyzed me...like a deer in the headlights.

I have a sense of what you're trying to say, but you're not really saying it, as such. It's coming off as negative instead of intense. Fatalistic instead of informative. I believe you're trying to help these people you've responded to, and others in the same situation, from becoming complacent and letting Type 2 just happen to them. You also are a rather sobering realist. I, too, am a realist, but I do not share your outlook about the future of pre-D people. Your motives seem to be good ones and I make no criticism there...I make no criticism at all - but I feel I have to say something here. Scared straight doesn't usually work in situations like this. Most of us are here because our world's been rocked. You know what I mean - you're going through it, too. Some of us need to know that we are not helpless in the face of this challenge. That we can do something to offset the possibility (or probability) of developing full blown Type 2 diabetes.

People here need information borne of experience. Any one of us can go to the Internet and find those frightening statistics. I want to hear how people keep this at bay. I want to read about how you do it...and how many others do it. It helps me in so many ways. You know, I don't think as many of the Pre-D folks would be here if they weren't challenging their doctor's too-laid-back attitudes about their increasing BG numbers. They are taking control.

As for your reaction to Subby (forgive me, Subby, if I have this wrong), it confuses me. Subby isn't saying we should support a pre-diabetic person in hiding his/her head in the sand. That would be foolish and mean. My interpretation is that Subby also feels, as I do, that the way you choose and present your material sometimes can be intense, alarming and interpreted as doomsaying :eek: ...especially to newer members who really just want to figure out what to do next. We should guide, inform, and try to encourage the changes that will help these folks. We're not here to enable anyone's denial. None of us. And know that this tough love thing isn't necessarily motivational for many of us.

You're probably just being intense or passionate about the topic, but you can be a bit scary about these things at times. You know?

I hope you can accept this posting in the spirit in which it was written. I'm trying to be helpful. I really don't enjoy the squabbling I've been reading on some of these threads. It's a real turn-off, and I have to wonder if it turns many people away from our forum. It has to be very confusing for a new person. I know it disturbs me, and I've been here for a little while now.

Please think about what I'm saying. If it didn't matter, I wouldn't bother.

Respectfully,

[ADSOFT]

Dear ADSOFT,

Speaking as one who came here teetering from pre-D to Type 2 in a very short amount of time, your information and statistics would have scared me witless. And you know what? I know it was supposed to do just that. Tough love, on some level. And it works for many because statistics like that - accurate or not - are beyond sobering.
But it would not have galvanized me into action.
It would have paralyzed me...like a deer in the headlights.

I have a sense of what you're trying to say, but you're not really saying it, as such. It's coming off as negative instead of intense. Fatalistic instead of informative. I believe you're trying to help these people you've responded to, and others in the same situation, from becoming complacent and letting Type 2 just happen to them. You also are a rather sobering realist. I, too, am a realist, but I do not share your outlook about the future of pre-D people. Your motives seem to be good ones and I make no criticism there...I make no criticism at all - but I feel I have to say something here. Scared straight doesn't usually work in situations like this. Most of us are here because our world's been rocked. You know what I mean - you're going through it, too. Some of us need to know that we are not helpless in the face of this challenge. That we can do something to offset the possibility (or probability) of developing full blown Type 2 diabetes.

People here need information borne of experience. Any one of us can go to the Internet and find those frightening statistics. I want to hear how people keep this at bay. I want to read about how you do it...and how many others do it. It helps me in so many ways. You know, I don't think as many of the Pre-D folks would be here if they weren't challenging their doctor's too-laid-back attitudes about their increasing BG numbers. They are taking control.

As for your reaction to Subby (forgive me, Subby, if I have this wrong), it confuses me. Subby isn't saying we should support a pre-diabetic person in hiding his/her head in the sand. That would be foolish and mean. My interpretation is that Subby also feels, as I do, that the way you choose and present your material sometimes can be intense, alarming and interpreted as doomsaying :eek: ...especially to newer members who really just want to figure out what to do next. We should guide, inform, and try to encourage the changes that will help these folks. We're not here to enable anyone's denial. None of us. And know that this tough love thing isn't necessarily motivational for many of us.

You're probably just being intense or passionate about the topic, but you can be a bit scary about these things at times. You know?

I hope you can accept this posting in the spirit in which it was written. I'm trying to be helpful. I really don't enjoy the squabbling I've been reading on some of these threads. It's a real turn-off, and I have to wonder if it turns many people away from our forum. It has to be very confusing for a new person. I know it disturbs me, and I've been here for a little while now.

Please think about what I'm saying. If it didn't matter, I wouldn't bother.

Respectfully,


I hear you, but scared straight works for me. I wish someone would have scared me straight about D. I was scared staight about getting a heart attack, it probobly saved my life and I can say that I have probobly saved about 10 peoples lives regarding heart desiese and the flu and diet pills.

Everyone is different, and I guess those that don't like the scared straight approach might speak up, because obviously it bothers them. There is something that bothers me too so let me speak up. I may be new around here, but I'm not new to DIABETES and some that have been here a while seem to think they know BETTER than those that have not been here as long as they have. I may not know exactly what each food is going to do to my personal glucose level, but I think I understand the issues of TypeII and Pre-D very well, and what it takes to control glucose levels.

There are a lot of other things I know because a family member has had it for 30 years and I have had to take her to the hospital more than 30 times to run tests and I have researched theme out well on the Internet. Unfortionatly, controlling glucose via a glucose meter is last thing I learned but as it turns out just by watching diet and excercise my family member was doing well based on ADA standards. Of course I will do better with a glucose meter.

I guess what I'm getting at is that sometimes peoples responses and insinuations really agrivate me, it as if they think I knew nothing about DIABETES till I got here.

The people who aggrivate me know who they are and they do it on purpose. I guess sometimes I have to step it up, to prove to them I understand what is going on.

Joshlynn, you're not one of them, and I really appreciate you stepping up and bringing this to my attention. I will tone down my scarred staight approach, I hope those that aggrivate me will do the same.


Btw, Joshlynn,

Now that you are here I wanted to personally congratulate you on dropping below 100 FBG!!!!! :D I'm not sure if you read my response to your thread, but I think your going to be ok, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this to my attention, I feel that I have gotten something off my chest. :D


Thanks:)

[Da Dog]

Soft, I usually ignore your posts because they never seem to go anywhere, but I saw Subby posted to it, and he usually has something to say. I'm a type 2 for a few years, low carb. I'm sorry, but saving 10 people's lives?.. wow!.. unless you're an EMT, I have a problem soaking that one up. As to telling "Pre-diabetics" the sky is falling, I find that a bit dramatic. I've been on sites where type 2's have been alive and well 30 YEARS after DX. Diabetes is a total pain, we all agree. A persons lifestyle and their sensitivity dictates how well they will do. I understand how you feel you have all the answers, not sure why, but I suspect it's just your personality. I'm sure you mean well, and hope you understand I mean no ill toward you, or your posts, even if I disagree 99% of the time.......... Have a good day...*S*

[ADSOFT]

Soft, I usually ignore your posts because they never seem to go anywhere, but I saw Subby posted to it, and he usually has something to say. I'm a type 2 for a few years, low carb. I'm sorry, but saving 10 people's lives?.. wow!.. unless you're an EMT, I have a problem soaking that one up. As to telling "Pre-diabetics" the sky is falling, I find that a bit dramatic. I've been on sites where type 2's have been alive and well 30 YEARS after DX. Diabetes is a total pain, we all agree. A persons lifestyle and their sensitivity dictates how well they will do. I understand how you feel you have all the answers, not sure why, but I suspect it's just your personality. I'm sure you mean well, and hope you understand I mean no ill toward you, or your posts, even if I disagree 99% of the time.......... Have a good day...*S*

:confused: So, how does this help answer the OP's question??

If you have something to say to me, you can always PM.:D


IMHO this post should be deleted, it doesn't really answer anything, some advice to the OP would have been more appropriate.

[Da Dog]

Sorry if I offended you soft. My ONLY REASON in responding at all was for the OP to take what you say with a grain of salt.. as it were. The "Doom and Gloom" thing isn't where it's at. I believe it was mentioned earlier that a "Pre-diabetic" isn't always destined to be a diabetic. My point about saving 10 people was just to give an example of possibly stretching the facts a bit, and that, possibly the OP should read between the lines and NOT be mis-informed. No harm intended tho..*S*

[ADSOFT]

Sorry if I offended you soft. My ONLY REASON in responding at all was for the OP to take what you say with a grain of salt.. as it were. The "Doom and Gloom" thing isn't where it's at. I believe it was mentioned earlier that a "Pre-diabetic" isn't always destined to be a diabetic. My point about saving 10 people was just to give an example of possibly stretching the facts a bit, and that, possibly the OP should read between the lines and NOT be mis-informed. No harm intended tho..*S*

Well, I've probobly been Pre-D for at least 1 1/2 yrs maybe more. About 1 1/2 years ago I had my blood work done, I had to know where I stood. If I would have just done the glucose test, I might not have died from D but probobly of a heart attack.

If your Pre-D you're not going to die tommorrow from D, but you should go find out what HDL, LDL, TRYGL, BP and BMI are. What I'm getting at if you have Pre-D, something is wrong, usually it's Syndrome X. Pre-D is definatly a wake up call for a vascular checkup. IMHO.

Regarding the 10 lives, I made sure they got the medical attention they needed at the right time. No I didn't personally save there lives. Well there was one time a girl that was in our group at a beach party wanted to go on a boat and she was so drunk that she couldn't walk, she was stubborn but I didn't let her go on the boat. This was at San Philippe Mexico. Her best friends later thanked me for what I did. ... I don't know what do you think? Do I get credit for that one? :D ... j/k.

[binnieman]

I, being the original poster, thank all of you who responded or just read the thread. I posted it and went about my exercise outdoors (all day long) as it was a really nice day in Seattle after a miserable labor day weekend. I would never have guessed the post would raise this much interest and even lead to upsetting some of you. I apologize for not choosing my words more carefully but that shows I am still grasping the basics here. First of all, I am so sorry to see that there are some who allegedly try to aggravate Adsoft purposefully. I, for one, prefer Adsoft's approach better. I have been living like a T2 since I found out that I have an issue. I will not stop living my life happily but I do believe I am doomed because my father was diabetic and here I am pre diabetic albeit being only 32 yo, very active, fit, and never overweight. Who knows how long it will take but I am doing something about it very consciously. What would I regret say a few years from now, that I was complacent or that I tried my best? That is not even at the expense of great things. I don't miss eating rice or pasta. Actually I kinda miss Pad Thai but I will not eat it anymore. There is a million other foods that would not raise my BG. I can also sympathize with the other side of the argument as some people may simply give up when looking at scary statistics. But we are all different and I would really urge all of us to not take anything out of context with respect to this thread or any to come. No one here means any harm and I learn something out of each and every post. I posted this because I was rather frustrated as to how unfair it is to have sugar issues, whether pre-d or T2. But I never blame myself for this.

Adsoft: my BMI is 22.8, HDL 65, LDL 85, triglycerides 124, BP (on the average) 115/64. This is exactly why I feel like I am perhaps in a lose lose situation because what else can I do? Exercise for me is like sleeping (so natural, can't live without it). I am super active. I get hurt sometimes doing too much. I did a knee surgery in June, two weeks later I was on the bicycle. At that point, I had no clue I had BG issues. In fact, I would have argued my BG to be as good as anyone's but to my surprise it is less than optimal, it is not even normal.

[jps]

At the risk of seeming pedantic AND as a full-blown Type 2 who has -- through 85+ lbs weight loss and dietary control -- effectively reversed my D to what the ADA would class as Pre-D levels...

**** Frank, we are very similar.

[Granny Shanny]

Since I don't read adsoft's posts, I haven't seen the basis for your statement, binnieman, of being "sorry to see that there are some who allegedly try to aggravate Adsoft purposefully". There is nothing here you need to feel sorry about.

If he has said such a thing, then his paranoia is showing, because all I've seen are people who have years and decades of real life experiences with these disorders, trying to get through to him that it isn't always his way or the highway. Nobody posts here to deliberately cause serious aggravation - if he is aggravated that everybody doesn't agree with his pronouncements and has the temerity to SAY they disagree, then that sounds like a personal problem to me.

[Josselyn]

You did NOTHING wrong, Binnieman. No need for that. You obviously posed a great question. Quite the flurry of responses.

This other thing is a situation that's been building for a little while now...in other threads.
It has little or nothing to do with you or your posted query.

Everyone's going to be just fine. No worries.

[ADSOFT]

Adsoft: my BMI is 22.8, HDL 65, LDL 85, triglycerides 124, BP (on the average) 115/64. This is exactly why I feel like I am perhaps in a lose lose situation because what else can I do? Exercise for me is like sleeping (so natural, can't live without it). I am super active. I get hurt sometimes doing too much. I did a knee surgery in June, two weeks later I was on the bicycle. At that point, I had no clue I had BG issues. In fact, I would have argued my BG to be as good as anyone's but to my surprise it is less than optimal, it is not even normal.

Well, I'm glad to see that your blood vitals are under control. Your Hdl, Ldl, etc look good and your blood pressure looks good. Glad to see you are on top of that. Your heart doesn't seem to be in danger. :D

At this point all you can do is get your FBG down under 100. What appears to work for most people around here is to start limiting Carbs. I don't eat more than 75 grams per meal. My recommendation is to limit your carbs to 65g per meal and try to keep bringing them down.

Ask your doctor about Red Wine in the evenings before bed time.

Here is study of wine to help diabetics reduce morning glucose levels. There are many studies out on the net. You can do more research.


Moderate alcohol tied to lower fasting glucose | Internal Medicine News | Find Articles at BNET (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4365/is_21_40/ai_n29433260/)

I was getting some readings of 101 FBG I'm using Miller Lite and getting FGB's at about 91-93.

I don't want to scare you, but some people think that if you are waking up with FBG'S over 100 your are killing beta cells. That kind of scared me, so I'm limiting carbs and doing the alcohol at night thing. I don't want to be waking up with FBGs over 100 this early in my fight and I don't want to be going over 135 after meals. Keeping carbs under 65g seem to be working for me at this point.

You may also want to learn about a VEGAN diet.

I will try to recommend some books that I found usefull.

It looks like you are being proactive about it. I don't want to repeat myself but to sum things up, Limiting carbs should be your next step, try 65g per meal max. See how that works, then kick in the Red Wine to get some more info on you system. Again at this point getting FBGs under 100 is important.

Oh, I forgot to mention that some claim that those who drink caffinated coffee don't get it. Caffine does kick up you BG'S. I drink coffee but I'm really carefull about how much carbs. I limit Caffinated coffee to One Oatmeal Raisin Cookie, 26 grams of Carbs are the ones I eat from 7-11 stores. I haven't done a lot of research on the Coffee Connection, because I've been focusing on keeping the FBG under 100 and meal FBG'S under 135 after 2 hrs max. You might be able to help me out with the coffee connection.

Again I'm glad you are on top of your blood readings, and that you are not afraid to take the bull by the horns. :) You have a lot of guts I commend your courage.

Good luck, I hope this info helps you. :D

[binnieman]

Forgive me for being blunt but I am much more interested in the serious situation that I may be facing at any point in the future than personal problems in this forum.

I regret I am somewhat pessimistic about my outlook but I do think that anyone who is prediabetic cannot be blamed for being overly reactive to the condition because right now we have a certain control. I do not want to lose that control, not too soon anyway. My doctor told me after my very first FBG (106) to lower my sugar consumption and comeback after a year if I am inclined. That to me is extremely trivial, cold-hearted and almost criminal. I wanted her to help me make any sense out of that number by doing more testing like the HbA1c and OGTT but she instead told me to stop worrying and be happy that I am not diabetic. That is why I just simply cannot sit and watch this spiral out of my own control because that is your typical primary care physician.

If anyone can give me suggestions as to how to lower my FBG, I will gladly entertain any ideas. For example, the moderate light beer before bed time seems interesting and I am giving it a try as I write this post. Snack before bed time gave me inconsistent results so I need to do more controlled experimentation on that.

[binnieman]

Thank you Josselyn and ADSOFT. I was writing my post as you both were writing as well. Great suggestions. Thank you so much again. We are all facing a situation where the average person does not. So it is to our advantage to be supportive of each other and understand our frustrations and differences of opinion. I am learning everything new every day because every single day my BG throws me a curve ball. So I am sure we will be disagreeing more and more but we will be happy that we get free ideas in this great forum.

[ADSOFT]

Forgive me for being blunt but I am much more interested in the serious situation that I may be facing at any point in the future than personal problems in this forum.

I regret I am somewhat pessimistic about my outlook but I do think that anyone who is prediabetic cannot be blamed for being overly reactive to the condition because right now we have a certain control. I do not want to lose that control, not too soon anyway. My doctor told me after my very first FBG (106) to lower my sugar consumption and comeback after a year if I am inclined. That to me is extremely trivial, cold-hearted and almost criminal. I wanted her to help me make any sense out of that number by doing more testing like the HbA1c and OGTT but she instead told me to stop worrying and be happy that I am not diabetic. That is why I just simply cannot sit and watch this spiral out of my own control because that is your typical primary care physician.

If anyone can give me suggestions as to how to lower my FBG, I will gladly entertain any ideas. For example, the moderate light beer before bed time seems interesting and I am giving it a try as I write this post. Snack before bed time gave me inconsistent results so I need to do more controlled experimentation on that.

Well if you're going to try the beer, I recommed Miller Lite.

Others have different approaches, other than beer. I like the Miller Lite because I lose weight too. I've lost over 12 lbs in the last two weeks.

... I have to go get some right now.

[fgummett]

Even accepting a 50% statistical chance (which I doubt) that still gives a 50% chance of NOT going on to develop full-blown Type 2.

To me a diagnosis of Pre-Diabetes is a golden opportunity... but the outcome is very much up to you. I see Type 2 D as a continuum which develops/progresses over many years (perhaps as many as 20) so the sooner you get the "heads up" that your BG management system is slipping, the sooner you can do something about it and then stop, delay, prevent or even reverse the onset and complications of D.

I've used this analogy before and I will stick with it as it seem apt: it is far easier to lower the water pressure and/or shore up a dam, than to try and repair it after it has failed.

Yes there is an element of genetic predisposition but I maintain that the main part of developing Type 2 D is environment and chiefly diet. Recognise that and use it to your advantage. I sure wish I had known 7 or more years ago what I know today.It seems that some of my posts here have been characterised as taking a laissez-faire attitude to Pre-D... "don't worry everything will be just fine" kind of thing... is there something wrong with my English because that was not my intention at all. :confused:

I am advising the OP to seize this opportunity and to be proactive in seeking to improve their odds of NOT developing full-blown Type 2. Perhaps my mistake was to phrase it in optimistic terms -- sorry but that is my outlook on life... while there is life, there is hope :) Over the course of the last 6+ years I have successfully turned my full-blown Type 2 D (as part of my Metabolic Syndrome AKA Syndrome X) almost completely around and now look forward to many more years of much improved health... rather than an almost certain early grave.

As for practical advice I'd say that for me at least, around 200g of carbohydrates each day is a complete no-no -- unless it all comes from green leafy vegetables. I also find a glass or two of a dry red wine each evening helps with my DP. Daily activity is important and I walk... often and briskly... I also park my car further away and take the stairs... little things that all add up. And BG testing, of course. YMMV

[CaptainMike]

Binnieman, given what you have mentioned of you diet, exercise, and medical history I would talk to your Dr. about the possibility of your being LADA, MODY, or some other variation of Type 1.5. Diabetes is not just Type 1 and Type 2, there seems to be more of a continuum than most medical professionals currently acknowledge. I suggest consulting with an endocrinologist if your glucose numbers continue to get worse with your current diet and exercise program. You have come to the right place and are off to a good start it sounds like.
Best of luck to you!
Mike

[ShottleBop]

Well if you're going to try the beer, I recommed Miller Lite.

Others have different approaches, other than beer. I like the Miller Lite because I lose weight too. I've lost over 12 lbs in the last two weeks.

... I have to go get some right now.

Have you tried Budweiser's new Select 55? It's pretty good, and has only 1.9 grams of carbs per 12 oz.

[slipperyelm]

Binnieman, some people find that when and to what intensity they last exercise before bedtime has an effect on their waking blood glucose level. For example, an easy stroll of 20 minutes right before bedtime will do it for me. Others get the same effect when exercising to a higher intensity some five or six hours before bedtime, but some find doing that gives the opposite effect. Anyway, that is something you can experiment with. Just don't let a single exercise vs morning blood glucose level define the results. Try things multiple times before you declare to yourself what works or does not work.

As long as you want to hear alternatives, prescription metformin taken at night also does it. I'm on metformin anyway, so I divvy up my doses so that one of them is taken the last thing before my head hits the pillow.

Regarding the "doomed" issue, I had thought that perhaps you used the word partly in humor. ;) While I agree that pre-diabetes is not necessarily followed by a diagnosis of type 2, I have no doubt that being proactive is the best insurance that it won't. You've got to do the best you can for yourself....I wish more people's blood glucose, A1c, and oral glucose tolerance got tested just as a matter of course so that it could be caught early. I do think more people would spring into action if diagnosed pre-diabetic. And I suspect the needed changes are easier to make before the disturbances get more progressed......By the time my type 2 was caught, my fasting blood glucose was 352. (By the way, I had great blood lipids and blood pressure at the time, so Syndrome X, or whatever it is being called. That may be why diabetes related tests were never done until I came in asking to be tested.) So by the time of my diagnosis I was caught in this spiral of extreme constant hunger and ungodly fatigue so that it took every ounce of will power I had to push through the changes that were needed.

I am 17 years past that first fasting blood glucose of 352. Today mine was 85. Cool, huh?

[binnieman]

Great post Slipperyelm. I am on a constant battle so far because I get results that are just so inconsistent. I have not spiked to any scary levels yet after meals or on fasting but I really do want to see improvements with my FBG. My after meals are generally quite good specially if I do not over-eat. The one thing I am dying to know is how long imy FBG has been elevated to these 100 levels because I did not have a baseline as I never was tested for BG by virtue of my deceiving looks (not beauty but healthy weight and no prior medical issues).

Now to ShottleBop and the beer idea. I had a corona late last night several hours after dinner. This morning, I was at 107 which is higher than my usual 100-105 but still well within the margin of error for these meters. I know it is only one test but I will do more testing by taking the beer at various times. I will also try the specific beers suggested here. I am really not ready to give up on this yet.

I will have to speak with my doctor about LADA but she will all the more think I am hypochondriac yet I have never even taken a prescription medication.

[Ronin]

Hi Binnieman!

We are all going to die - that is the only sure thing I can predict. What we will die from is yet to be determined.

Your posts are very similar to the experience I had some years back when I got started. You need to realize that changing your metabolisim isn't something that is going to happen fast, it takes time.

You are focusing on FBG's, probably because that is what got you the Pre-D diagnosis in the first place. However, what is more important is the Post-Prandial reading as well as those HbA1c readings. FWIW: your 5.6% is still "normal."

Having read a lot of your posts I think you have a real problem with the Dawn Effect. You diet may not be sufficient to carry you over the evening without a liver-dump in the AM to get your body started.

I'm not aware of your height but if you're around 6' you and I have about the same body mass (I fluxuate between 150-155 most days). I also do a lot of exercise -- 90 plus minutes of aggressive bicycling almost every day where I burn about 2000 calories in the process. As part of this I use carb timing as part of my exercise plan. Personally I prefer post exercise carbs as they are more satisfying to me and I have a pre-planned 1500 calorie snack following my bicycle rides. This is almost immediately absorbed back into the muscle cells and liver stores within an hour of the bike ride.

The winter season proves a bit more challenging as I get less exercise and have to reduce the overall calories consumed daily lest I gain weight.

As to the obsession -- my experiecne is that it will pass. Right now you want things to happen fast and they aren't happening as fast as you desire. Keep in mind that even daily FBG a bit over 100 are not a death sentence and are very likely an indicator that you are in need of a pre-bed snack (small, but enough to carry you through the night).

You are in the process of modifying your metabolic processes. If you are doing the right thing, over time, you will see the results. Probably first in the HbA1c numbers before they are reflected in the FBG's.

[ADSOFT]

Have you tried Budweiser's new Select 55? It's pretty good, and has only 1.9 grams of carbs per 12 oz.

Nope, but I'm going to try one today when I watch the Dodger Game. :D

Thanks,

Btw, how does that compare to Miller Lite. .... just for the record of course. lol

[ADSOFT]

......By the time my type 2 was caught, my fasting blood glucose was 352. (By the way, I had great blood lipids and blood pressure at the time, so Syndrome X, or whatever it is being called. That may be why diabetes related tests were never done until I came in asking to be tested.) ?

You know I don't want to be negitive but the following information my help a friend or a loved one.

Some of the members here recommended that I go get some books on the subject so last week I went to the book store and one of the statistics I found generally mentioned something along the lines of:

People with Syndrome X that goes undiagnosed usually either get Diabetes or get a Heart Attack!

... that just freaked me out!!

Honestly, I'm came here to get some information to help my mom with some of here diabetes issues(which are pretty much all taken care of, at this point I'm here for myself now) and when I first saw the Pre-D forum I started laughing to myself and thought, my god what a bunch of hypochondriacs. ..... however I knew that I was high risk for diabetes because everytime I took mom to the hospital for tests or to her GP for followup I would run into the pamphlets that warned about diabetes, and I would always be high risk. I even showed my sister that I had all warning signs, ... I blew it off, and kept my fingers crossed that I wouldn't get it. She told me, you better do something: I thought to myself what? The pamplets say to lose weight, how is that going to help(well now I know that losing weight decreases your insulin resistance) It said to excercise; I now know that also decreases inslun resistance, something to do with insulin transporters that help muscles absorb insulin.

It's funny at that point all I knew about fighting the onset of D was to drink coffee. lol. Well it turns out you have to drink seven cups a day and that doesn't even guarntee it.

As I was learning more about D I sort of got interested in Pre-D stuff. The more I read the more shocked I got.:eek:

Having D is not a death sentence, but if you can avoid it or at least inform your self on how to fight it. I'm all for that. If you can spot it in a loved one and inform them I'm for that too.

... and if someone just doing research on D and Pre-D this post was intended just for informational purposes not really trying to scare anyone.

[binnieman]

Dawn effect, yes that has been a nagging problem for me and I have yet to figure out how to resolve it. It is quite a conundrum but I am determined to figure it out. I have put in a request for a C-Peptide test as well to rule out the possibility of LADA.

It has been an interesting ride so far. I keep losing weight though so it will be interesting to see if that keeps going down or back up but I am loving this higher protein lower carb diet. I feel and look better this way. That is one of the plus sides of this experience for me so far.

[ADSOFT]

Dawn effect, yes that has been a nagging problem for me and I have yet to figure out how to resolve it. It is quite a conundrum but I am determined to figure it out. I have put in a request for a C-Peptide test as well to rule out the possibility of LADA.

It has been an interesting ride so far. I keep losing weight though so it will be interesting to see if that keeps going down or back up but I am loving this higher protein lower carb diet. I feel and look better this way. That is one of the plus sides of this experience for me so far.


btw, how many carbs are you eating per meal? .... a day?


Also I read your post on the beer you drank. Corona's have a ton of carbs. The beer thing for DAWN PHEN on works with light beer, at least for me it does. I use Miller Lite. You might want to compare the carbs in a Miller Lite and a Corona.

[binnieman]

I am not really good at counting carbs yet but my best estimate would be 100-150 g a day and probably no more than 50 g per meal. Except milk (13 g per 8 oz), I don't drink anything that has carbs, little alcohol occassionally. I will give Miller Lite a try although I fortunately do not have weight issues but less carbs is better anyway.

[Granny Shanny]

Binnieman . . . the Calorie King pocket guide is a really handy little book that covers about everything & also has restaurant/fast food listings. Mine came from Barnes & Noble, but I think most bookstores have it, if you don't have a guide already.

[sorka]

I am not really good at counting carbs yet but my best estimate would be 100-150 g a day and probably no more than 50 g per meal. Except milk (13 g per 8 oz), I don't drink anything that has carbs, little alcohol occassionally. I will give Miller Lite a try although I fortunately do not have weight issues but less carbs is better anyway.

Get a food scale and measure out everything when you make food. For packaged food, count the servings and multiply by the calories and carbs per serving.

When I was first diagnosed as pre-d, I did this and became an expert at counting calories and carbs. After a while, you don't need the scale anymore. You'd be surprised how good you can get counting calories and carbs by just eyeballing it after you've trained yourself with a scale and measuring cups.

[Tribbles]

I will have to speak with my doctor about LADA but she will all the more think I am hypochondriac yet I have never even taken a prescription medication.

I am almost identical to you except a lot older! I have never been overweight, eat reasonably, and exercise. It is not clear that lean T2 is entirely the same as normal T2 and may be due more to insulin insufficiency than insulin resistance. There is still IR but a lot less, I remain largely insulin sensitive. The problem you face in trying to avoid T2 is that you cannot use the principle lever to fight it, weight loss (which implies diet and exercise), because you are there already.

Certainly get tested for all the antibodies and not just GAD. Have you considered going direct to an Endo if your cover allows it and bypassing your doctor?

[Tribbles]

Hmm, last post seemed rather bleak. On the plus side if it is deficiency and you carry on pretty much as you are it could be twenty years before you get diabetes proper even without making huge changes to your lifestyle or diet.

[slipperyelm]

ADSOFT, once again I need either a real life person to proof read for me, or I need to find the edit button (Where did it go??? Please, someone?) I said, "By the way, I had great blood lipids and blood pressure at the time, so [NO] Syndrome X, or whatever it is being called. That may be why diabetes related tests were never done until I came in asking to be tested."

I was never tested for diabetes most likely because I did not have Syndrome X. Above, I said I had great blood lipids and blood pressure. I left out the word "no." I had no syndrome X. I did not have undiagnosed Syndrome X: I simply did not have the cluster conditions that make up Syndrome X.

Regardless of Syndrome X I think more people should be screened for diabetes.

Sorry for the interruption, folks.