anyone else? Meal planning points

[Kimbber]

I went and saw a nutritionist recently and have to eat five times a day and so many starches, milk, meats, fats, etc a day at different times a day to keep my sugar level under control.

Example:
3 oz of fish is on point.
1 cup milk is a point.

Anyway else doing this?

Kimberly

[jps]

I'll get on my high-horse for just a second.

I think the nutritionists are basically full of garbage. Too much subscribing to the food pyramid that was established 60 years ago (without modification). Or however long ago it was. I don't think they truly understand... however, your meter has to be your guide. I suspect that if you use your meter as your guide, you will see that starches aren't compatible with good blood sugars.

When I saw my nutritionist, she was very impressed with my weight loss and especially how quickly my blood glucoses normalized. She looked at my log and said, "Oh my, we have to change this! We need to add more complex carbs to your diet - more carbs in general". I just gave her this puzzled look. Hmmmm, I'm doing great and you want to change it up by adding the very things that are causing problems.... something doesn't add up. Well intentioned, but ignorant IMO. They treat every T2 and pre the same. We are not all the same. That's why eating to your meter is critical. It will guide the way.

I'm not a fan of counting points or exchanges, I think it's tough to adjust to - it's too clinical, it makes you feel like you are sick. I am, however, a fan of eating until you are satiated, but with foods that won't elevate your glucoses. Once you take care of the glucose issues, it's funny how quickly everything else seems to fall in line. At least that's what happened with me.

This isn't a death sentence for you. It's a fantastic opportunity if you want to know the truth.

[sumi]

jps,
I just read your stats. Congratulations! What a fantastic job you have done. Really makes you wonder why they don't ask you for advice instead of telling you what you did "wrong".

[jps]

Thank you sumi. I can't say that "my way" will work for everyone, because clearly, everybody is different when it comes to T2. But I was able to figure it out (at least I hope I've figured it out) by relying heavily on my meter and quite honestly, information on this site. Much of what my meter said and many of the things I read here reiterated that "common beliefs" such as those about macronutrients weren't close to correct.

I used to test like crazy - 10-14 times per day. I wanted to know exactly how foods were affecting me so I knew what to avoid. Now I rarely test. In fact, I don't think I've tested at all in the last 10 days. Why? Because I haven't strayed from the "caveman diet" (non-processed foods) that has proven to be healthy for me.

I cannot overemphasize very regular testing. It's the most powerful tool we have at our disposal.

[jenb]

I'm assuming that eating 5 times a day is 3 meals and 2 snacks. That's OK, but don't get too locked into it. You'll drive yourself nuts. If you want a snack, have one. If you don't want one, don't force yourself. There's really no reason that you can't maintain good blood sugar control just eating however you're used to eating (IMHO).

If I ate the 1800 calories a day and all the starches that my CDE originally recommended I'd be the size of a whale, would be taking almost double the insulin I am, and would no doubt be having horrible trouble maintaining good BG control. I generally try to eat about 1100 calories a day, with 35-40% coming from vegetables, berries and legumes, and the rest evenly split between protein and fat. I do include a couple of Ryvita crackers with lunch and dinner, and definitely include (very) limited amounts of bread or other crackers when I'm out with friends. But no potatoes, no rice, no chips - you know the culprits!

I'd recommend that you seek information on how to count carbs instead of using exchanges - it's a lot less confusing (at least for me). Use lots of green vegetables, some tomato, cucumber, jicama, etc. Reduce starchy carbs like potatoes, bread, rice and the like. Use nuts, berries and seeds. Black beans, pinto beans and other legumes are a good source of protein and carbohydrate but should be used in limited quantities. Acorn and butternut squash give you similar mouthfeel to mashed potatoes, but have significantly less starch. Cauliflower, broccoli and eggplant are great too. Cheese and avocado are lovely sources of fat (watch the quantity!). Dairy is OK in limited quantity - milk has lots of carbs but lots of protein too.

I found that Dr. Barry Sears' "The Zone" was very helpful in understanding how the macronutrients (protein, fat, and carbohydrate) work, and how to use them to your best advantage. I lost 50 pounds over a couple of years using a modified Zone diet.

I also use Calorie King software for meal planning, as it details the nutritional content of each food and the total calories, and grams of protein, fat, carb, and fiber in your meal if you are careful to list everything. It also has a meal planner if you want to use it.

If you decide to go against your nutritionist's recommendations, take a log of your daily meals to your next appointment, along with a record of your BG control and your weight loss (if that's a goal). I you've been successful at reaching your goals following a different nutrition plan, it will be hard to argue with your success!

In short - do what works for you...you're in control!

Jen

[jps]

I'm assuming that eating 5 times a day is 3 meals and 2 snacks. That's OK, but don't get too locked into it. You'll drive yourself nuts. If you want a snack, have one. If you don't want one, don't force yourself. There's really no reason that you can't maintain good blood sugar control just eating however you're used to eating (IMHO).

If I ate the 1800 calories a day and all the starches that my CDE originally recommended I'd be the size of a whale, would be taking almost double the insulin I am, and would no doubt be having horrible trouble maintaining good BG control. I generally try to eat about 1100 calories a day, with 35-40% coming from vegetables, berries and legumes, and the rest evenly split between protein and fat. I do include a couple of Ryvita crackers with lunch and dinner, and definitely include (very) limited amounts of bread or other crackers when I'm out with friends. But no potatoes, no rice, no chips - you know the culprits!

I'd recommend that you seek information on how to count carbs instead of using exchanges - it's a lot less confusing (at least for me). Use lots of green vegetables, some tomato, cucumber, jicama, etc. Reduce starchy carbs like potatoes, bread, rice and the like. Use nuts, berries and seeds. Black beans, pinto beans and other legumes are a good source of protein and carbohydrate but should be used in limited quantities. Acorn and butternut squash give you similar mouthfeel to mashed potatoes, but have significantly less starch. Cauliflower, broccoli and eggplant are great too. Cheese and avocado are lovely sources of fat (watch the quantity!). Dairy is OK in limited quantity - milk has lots of carbs but lots of protein too.

I found that Dr. Barry Sears' "The Zone" was very helpful in understanding how the macronutrients (protein, fat, and carbohydrate) work, and how to use them to your best advantage. I lost 50 pounds over a couple of years using a modified Zone diet.

I also use Calorie King software for meal planning, as it details the nutritional content of each food and the total calories, and grams of protein, fat, carb, and fiber in your meal if you are careful to list everything. It also has a meal planner if you want to use it.

If you decide to go against your nutritionist's recommendations, take a log of your daily meals to your next appointment, along with a record of your BG control and your weight loss (if that's a goal). I you've been successful at reaching your goals following a different nutrition plan, it will be hard to argue with your success!

In short - do what works for you...you're in control!

Jen

Fantastic advice Jen.

[Kimbber]

I do not have a meter, doc say one step at a time. I got this booklet from Exchange List of meal planning from the American dietetic assoc. I got what time of the day to eat starches, fats, meats all on a points using the book. It based on 1800 calories and it a real trip all the starches they have me eating yet very little fruit (which is fine by me) and all the vegs I want which I do like more. She asked me what food I would in real life eat and build the diet around that.

That is where I am at today.

Question: Are any of these "free diabetes' foods on the market really what they say they are? Or are they scams?

[Kimbber]

I will look up the Calorie King software, I never thought about doing that and it would be perfect. I have an old small laptop I can keep in the kitchen.

>>>I'm assuming that eating 5 times a day is 3 meals and 2 snacks. 1800 calories <<<

Is exactly what I am on but for years I have been eating low carbs and high protien plus a lot of salads without dressing. That is what makes me feel good. Now they telling me how I need these starches and little fruits. I use to buying peaches and eatting all I want as a snack and now they want me to eat bread type food instead of fruit!! I think fruit would be better for a person.

At least I am not the only one who thinks some of this sounds crazy.

[jps]

So your doctor wants to wait until your full blown diabetic before she gets you a meter and/or medication? Wow.

Somebody here has to know of some resources for you. You really should have a meter.

What was your fasting glucose again? Was an A1c performed? Was an OGTT performed?

Myself, I'm not ADA crazy. I think they are relatively well intentioned, but misinformed. And the dieticians/CDE experts follow ADA guidelines, which to me, are way out of whack. Both with their standards and diets.

Be careful, there are a ton of fads out there geared at taking advantage of lost T2's and pre-D's. There is no quick fix out there. It boils down to lifestyle. You need to eat what works for you and you need to exercise regularly.

I do commend you on seeking out more information and being proactive with this instead of just letting it happen.

[foxl]

Personally I subscribe to your OWN way of eating ... it is what works for me, too!

Eat how you want and most MDs will see it is working for you ... and not advise against it, at least.

You can always ask your doc (AND Nutritionist) what I asked mine: Well if my liver is spewing out 2 - 3 times the glucose of a normal person's, and that is what causes high blood sugar, why do I need to add dietary carbs to that?" They do not seem to have an answer. ;)

[Kimbber]

So your doctor wants to wait until your full blown diabetic before she gets you a meter and/or medication? Wow.

Somebody here has to know of some resources for you. You really should have a meter.

What was your fasting glucose again? Was an A1c performed? Was an OGTT performed?

Myself, I'm not ADA crazy. I think they are relatively well intentioned, but misinformed. And the dieticians/CDE experts follow ADA guidelines, which to me, are way out of whack. Both with their standards and diets.

Be careful, there are a ton of fads out there geared at taking advantage of lost T2's and pre-D's. There is no quick fix out there. It boils down to lifestyle. You need to eat what works for you and you need to exercise regularly.

I do commend you on seeking out more information and being proactive with this instead of just letting it happen.


I am on Metformin twice a day and he wants to get my thyroid which is 7.8 corrected before going any further. See how that effect my other numbers. I get re tested the end of November.

I have no idea what these number mean but here is what i got. Keep in mind this stuff runs heavy in my family


NA 142
K 4.3
CL 102
CO2 28
FBS 103

They checked my a bunch of other stuff. I have three pages here of number. My cholesterol is really high but they hope that will be better with my thyroid meds.

I get your statement about my dr waiting however I have seen six doctor now on weight gain and this is the first one I lost weight with (14 pounds) so I giving him a shot. Women my age where I live tend to get blown off as "the change of life" thing and no one want to really listen to you.

Kimberly

[foxl]

You totally want a meter and the wonderful feedback it gives you!!! Especially if your nutritionist has you INCREASING carbs ... sheesh!

And that FBG is fasting blood glucose -- WHY no A1c? The ADA wants A1cs used diagnostically now, instead of FBG!

[Kimbber]

Personally I subscribe to your OWN way of eating ... it is what works for me, too!

Eat how you want and most MDs will see it is working for you ... and not advise against it, at least.

You can always ask your doc (AND Nutritionist) what I asked mine: Well if my liver is spewing out 2 - 3 times the glucose of a normal person's, and that is what causes high blood sugar, why do I need to add dietary carbs to that?" They do not seem to have an answer. ;)

I asked to see a nutritionist about low sugar diet but I thought I get information to make a good diet, good choices and not a plan like this. I thought I would get told what products at the store to buy and what to avoid.

My newbie mistake. I put up most my own food in summer for the winter so I know it is healthy plus we get a half a cow and hog each year for our year of meat so I know how the animal was raised and butchered. I grow all my own herbs. I am a healthy eating nuts case and now I am being told to eat in a way that does not sound right to me.

thank you to all of you. I do not feel so crazy now I hear this is not a do exactly this or die. I really think I need to read more on diet before doing exactly this point thing.

[foxl]

Just about everything the ADA "prescribes" panders to the appetite of the masses ... which is sad. I truly believe most people want to take better care of themselves.

AACE (American College of Endocrinologists) has a good website with guidelines for diabetics -- although not much on diet.

I confess, I have become a tad bit evangelical on low-carbing. Yest, at my retinologist appt, the asst (who looked like she had T2 potential) asked me what my A1c was and I said 5.8. She said, "We do not see many that low!" and I replied, "I am low-carbing ... pass it on."

[jps]

The AACE's guidelines are much, much better than the ADA, and even then, I don't think they are tight enough.

The numbers you gave were electrolytes. All normal, no worries. The fasting is a bit high. I don't like that your doctor is taking a wait and see attitude with it though. Admittedly, I would not get too worked up about that number. I was there for a number of years before I became full blown diabetic. But, it's very possible I could have avoided that, but I continued to sit on my butt and eat garbage.

I have a thread somewhere in this forum showing a personal timeline of mine from normal, to pre-diabetes, to full blown diabetes that might be of interest.

[binnieman]

Hi Kimbber,

I posted this on a different thread but I thought I re-post it on your own thread. Sorry for the interruption.

I am new to this forum as well and I have been asking these wonderful folks a lot of commonplace questions. I am learning a great deal but I have not quite yet managed to lower my morning BG levels but I am trying out a variety of approaches. In any case, it will be to your best advantage to understand what your blood regulatory system is doing as soon as possible. First thing in the morning, two hours after meals, and check out the foods you eat most. If you like fruits as well, test as many of them as you can so you avoid the ones that overwhelm your system The best way to do that is to have your own meter although there is a slight danger of getting obsessed with checking your BG and that could lead to some undue stress. Needless to say, the fact that you are a pre-D means your sugar regulation is not optimal if not abnormal. So get on top of it now by engaging in this forum, exercising as much as your time and inclination permits, and avoid empty carbs. In my case, my diet was generally quite balanced to begin with but I lowered my carb in take and increased my protein in take by about the same amount. I have never felt better.

As almost everyone would suggest here as well, you should do your HbA1c. My doctor was very reluctant for me to do that so I went out and bought a kit from Walmart for $9. Most folks here have a pretty good review of that. HbA1c will give you a weighted average of your BG levels over an 8 - 12 week period. It is very instructive because ultimately your goal is to keep that around 5% and that would indicate on how well you are managing you BG regulation. In fact, I read recently that there is a debate to use A1c only as a diagnostic tool for T2 and Pre-D.

In a nutshell, you are in charge so take all the precautions now because you do not want to regret anything later on.

Hang on tight. Some of the good folks here will give you very pinpoint advice unlike my gibberish.

Good luck!

[Granny Shanny]

Nothing to add here, Kimberly, except to say that you aren't crazy & it's beginning to sound like some of the docs & nutritionists you've seen might be a brick or two short! :D :D :D (shut up now, Shanny . . . )

You've been eating a healthy diet and you feel better for it, you've been losing weight, and you're addressing your medical issues.

You don't need a doc's approval to go buy a glucose meter at Walmart ($9 for the meter, but strips are about 40¢ each) & you don't need the nutritionist's approval to pursue your lower carb/higher protein/lotsa leafy greens diet regimen. So that's the only suggestion I'd make: Get a meter & ignore the carb-happy nutritionist! :cool: :cool: :cool:

[jenb]

Just about everything the ADA "prescribes" panders to the appetite of the masses ... which is sad. I truly believe most people want to take better care of themselves.

AACE (American College of Endocrinologists) has a good website with guidelines for diabetics -- although not much on diet.

I confess, I have become a tad bit evangelical on low-carbing. Yest, at my retinologist appt, the asst (who looked like she had T2 potential) asked me what my A1c was and I said 5.8. She said, "We do not see many that low!" and I replied, "I am low-carbing ... pass it on."

Linda - I am totally on board with you. I think the ADA dietary recommendations are keeping people sick, not to mention confused.

Kimberly - please, please, please....get a meter and some strips and start testing your blood sugar yourself. Test at the begining of your meals, then 2 hours after your first bite. The first reading gives you a baseline. Very generally, glucose processing peaks about one hour after you start to eat, then tapers back to baseline over the next hour or 2. The 2 hour reading tells you your trend. This is a guide you can use to eliminate or modify the quantities of foods that cause you to "spike" too high.

If you want to be a crazy nut about this (like me), you can test at 1 and 2 hours to see just how high those carbs are taking you - it can be alarming! When I'm trying to develop a standard menu for myself I actually test every 20 minutes for a couple of hours to see what's happening - I'm not recommending this compulsive behavior :o , but it is interesting.

Jen