Net Carbs???

[SCAPER]

So just trying to figure out what I can eat now. This is difficult. But I went to the low-carb store close by and found a bunch of good stuff. So I am a little happier now, having found foods that I can eat.

But what's the deal with this NET carbs stuff? Back when I was doing Atkins years ago you just counted carbs - that's it. Now somehow if you add fiber to the food then they offset the carbs??? I dunno. That seems suspect. There were all these foods there that were fairly high in carbs (16g or 20g of carbs) but then once you subtracted the fiber, they'd have a NET carb of only 3g.

That might work for people on the Zone diet, but does that trick really work for diabetics? I mean, with that logic, I could go eat a hershey's bar as long as I took some ex-lax or metamucil at the same time.

I will say there were some foods that had a total carb count of like 10g but then 9g of that was sugar alchohol or something like that. So maybe sugar alchohols don't affect diabetics? I guess if that's true, then the net carb count of 1 would really be true. But I am still suspect of the subtracting the fiber thing.

Can someone help me decipher all this mumbo jumbo? Do I worry about real carbs or net carbs???

[dbaratta]

Yes, if your food has 15g of carbs and 3g of fiber, it is like having 12g of carb. You subtract the fiber from the carb. But keep in mind that processed carbs (simple carbs) react differently than complex carbs. Try to stick with the complex carbs in fruits and veggies, ti is way better for you. Plus, for me a simple carb shoots thru my system like a rocket and my BG is out of control......that is just me though.

A diabetic diatition can help a lot.

[jer.lawrence]

Poppy's right. With MOST foods, "Total Carbs" includes Fiber, Sugar, Sugar alcohols. Your body cannot digest the fiber, and so that does not break down into glucose and thus never gets absorbed into your bloodstream.

So typically (and it may be different on some foods), your "Net Carbs" is the "Total Carbs" minus "Fiber." It works the same for us too.

I love those atkin's bars, I have one for breakfast most mornings now. They're like 11g carbs, but 8g of it is fiber. So, I only count it as 3g of carbs.

Pretty neat, that's why high-fiber foods seem to work pretty well.

[SCAPER]

Boy I don't know. I think I may have to just avoid carbs alltogether. I ate a low-carb version of a rice-crispy treat this morning that I bought from the low-carb store. 7g carbs - 2 g fibe = 5 g. carbs net. Also had 1-2 other carbs at that time too.

Afterwords, my BG spiked from 155 this morning to 241 after all that. That's the highest it's been since I began watching my carbs 2 days ago. Mostly it's been in the 140-165 range. This was the first thing that made it spike. Wow!

[Granny Shanny]

Boy I don't know. I think I may have to just avoid carbs alltogether. I ate a low-carb version of a rice-crispy treat this morning that I bought from the low-carb store. 7g carbs - 2 g fibe = 5 g. carbs net. Also had 1-2 other carbs at that time too.

Afterwords, my BG spiked from 155 this morning to 241 after all that. That's the highest it's been since I began watching my carbs 2 days ago. Mostly it's been in the 140-165 range. This was the first thing that made it spike. Wow!
You sure got this right, Scaper . . . we can't trust the ads & labels that lead us to believe it's diabetes-friendly! Anything that promises to be low-carb, sugar-free, no-sugar-added . . . and all that jazz . . . usually bears further scrutiny. They might be okay for low-carbers who don't have glucose issues, but for us diabetics, they can be a real pitfall.

Read the labels! Anything that contains corn syrup, corn syrup solids, high fructose corn syrup, and almost anything at all that ends in "ose": take a pass on it. All those "ose" are sugars, and have exactly that effect.

There ARE a few sweets that I can enjoy without spiking, and those are the Atkins Endulge bars. And I swear - if you like Mounds candy, you won't be able to tell the difference in Atkins Endulge chocolate coconut bar. I like their peanut caramel cluster bar too.

Just remember, Your Mileage May Vary . . . all I can say is they don't spike me. And I hope they don't spike you either, but you'll have to try 'em & test.

[Handybear]

Being a 6-12-12 Bernstein low carber I only subtract half of the fiber to get the net carbs.

[Larry H.]

Its very hard to determine for anyone else what may work for them. I only know what is working for me.

Yes I subtract the fiber from the carbs as nearly all sources suggest that is the way diabetes should do it. For instance the Schwanns low carb ice cream we buy is figured at 4 carbs per serving. They use some kind of filler I think that causes the carbs to digest much slower making the effect of a much lower carb than the total that is really in the product. I think Byers has similar types of ice cream. When I buy bread I look at the amount of carbs, Sara Lee low sugar, 1 grm. bread is quite good and two slices are only 18 carbs. Now maybe for you those 18 carbs will raise your numbers, for me they are barely noticeable.

My guess in that rice crispy bar is the rice content. Rice tends to make most of us see high numbers quickly. One has like has been said just learn though experience. I wouldn't personally go to extreme low carbs. The ADA says the recommend 50 for breakfast and 70 for each of the two other meals. Keeping it under that amount is fine, but I wouldn't starve unless you just can't tolerate them, which is possible. Its all a learning experience that takes time an experimentation. I read all the labels and size of the serving and try to keep to the above goals. For me it works.

[SCAPER]

Man, I had some of that Schwan's Low Carb ice cream last night and it didn't raise my BG hardly at all!!! I was so scared that it would. But barely noticeable.

I was so excited I just about did a back flip. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between that and regular ice cream either. It tasted delicious!

[MCS]

The carbs I do eat are always complex carbs, that is whole grain if possible, and even then I still run into trouble sometimes. I would have to say, whole grain has always been better than refined carbs though. Haven't tried the Steel Cut Oats yet, tring to build up the accept/reject courage for those.

[cyberus]

Man, I had some of that Schwan's Low Carb ice cream last night and it didn't raise my BG hardly at all!!! I was so scared that it would. But barely noticeable.

I was so excited I just about did a back flip. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between that and regular ice cream either. It tasted delicious!

Just remember that not all net carbs are created equal. Sugar alcohols are something to keep track of also, not everyone metabolizes them the same ... for instance manitol, maltitol and sorbitol all spike my blood sugar (slower than regular sugar but still) and act as a ... ummm ... errr ... energetic .. laxative :o

Make sure that the numbers you are using are off the nutritional data label not off the blurb on the front of the package, voodoo math involving things like resistant starch, low GI sweeteners and so on can sneak up on you 3-5 hours later.

[Larry H.]

I have not had any issues with the Schwann low carb so far except perhaps it might have a bit of that laxative effect mentioned. By far my favorite of the choices that are out there. The label seems pretty convincing as to the way they arrive at the 4 carb readings.

I think this Soy Four I have just got into has some possibilities. I have avoided muffins like the plaque, but after reading that soy muffins, depending on what is in them only had around 4 or 5 carbs I decided to go for it. I ate two around the meal two days ago and it didn't hardly show up. Tonight I made a pizza crust, not wonderful, but surely passable and perhaps improvable, and I ate two thirds of it. Two hours latter even with two scoops of schwann I got a 116. I can't say everyone would react that way, but so far so good with myself.

This is why I dig around trying to find those things that I can still eat that won't make for numbers I don't want to see. Maybe I am somewhat unique if there is such a thing in that I am getting by with these foods, for now I am content with the results.

[genie86333]

I mean, with that logic, I could go eat a hershey's bar as long as I took some ex-lax or metamucil at the same time.

Not exactly...it's not that the fiber is negating the carbs you eat... It's based on the fact that we can't digest fiber, so if a company finds a way of replacing some of the non-fiber carbs with fiber, there will be less digestable carbs in the product.

That being said, although YMMV, many people find they can only subtract half of the amount of fiber carbs from total carbs, not the total amount. So...20 grams of carbs, 10 fiber = about 15g digestible.

And sugar alcohols is about the same thing (plus it will give you the same effect that ex-lax will, so watch out for using too much!)

[SCAPER]

All I know about the Schwan's Ice cream is it works for me! I am so grateful! I haven't seen my BG levels spike at all since I started eating it. And it tastes every bit as good as any other ice cream I used to eat. So I am happy with it. Can't wait till my Schwan's man comes again.

[MrsMia]

All I know about the Schwan's Ice cream is it works for me! I am so grateful! I haven't seen my BG levels spike at all since I started eating it. And it tastes every bit as good as any other ice cream I used to eat. So I am happy with it. Can't wait till my Schwan's man comes again.

Hi Scaper!

I was wondering what the serving size is on the Schwan's lo carb ice cream. I know Breyers has lo carb ice cream and the serving size is 1/2 a cup. I usually have their carb smart bars (so delicious and tastes very much as good as some of the higher end brands of ice cream). Unfortunately they seem to catch up with me for a few days afterward with higher blood sugars.:(

[SCAPER]

The serving size is 1/2 cup. I stuck to that at first, and didn't see much of an increase in BG a few hours later that night or the next morning. So I went up to 1 cup one night and still didn't see much of an increase. But that could be because I took my meds right before.

Last night I had a little over a cup and I definitely saw a small spike in BG this morning. The thing is, I often see BG spike in the morning - often for no good reason. Sometimes that just happens even if I've had almost no carbs the night before. So it's hard to say but I know FOR ME it seems like I can have somewhere between 1/2 cup and 1 cup without much problem. YMMV.

Regardless, that's more ice cream than I was having - which was ZERO. So I am stoked to have some, even if it is only 1/2 cup.

[Chef Barrae]

Scaper, I have found a fudge pop that you might like. It is Breyer's (Dreyer's in some areas of the country) Smart Carb Fudge Pops. They are 3 net carbs out of a total of 9 carbs. They have both fiber and sugar alcohol, which are incompletely absorbed. I have found that I have little (4 points) to no increase in bg levels. They are my saving grace right now. They are delicious.

Here's some info about sugar alcohols:

Sugar Alcohols Fact Sheet (http://www.ific.org/publications/factsheets/sugaralcoholfs.cfm)

[Larry H.]

The serving size is 1/2 cup. I stuck to that at first, and didn't see much of an increase in BG a few hours later that night or the next morning. So I went up to 1 cup one night and still didn't see much of an increase. But that could be because I took my meds right before.

Last night I had a little over a cup and I definitely saw a small spike in BG this morning. The thing is, I often see BG spike in the morning - often for no good reason. Sometimes that just happens even if I've had almost no carbs the night before. So it's hard to say but I know FOR ME it seems like I can have somewhere between 1/2 cup and 1 cup without much problem. YMMV.

Regardless, that's more ice cream than I was having - which was ZERO. So I am stoked to have some, even if it is only 1/2 cup.

I usually end up with two scoops which is about a cup serving probably all though I never exactly measured it. Even eaten with two slices of low sugar whole grain bread and chips I can see a low number.

I think for me the evening snack mostly needs to be something more like a high fiber cereal or nuts that give protein. I have never had the ice cream before bed. But either way they usually say that after the night your numbers should be back down unless something really excessive went on the day before perhaps. that morning raise that is unexpected seemed to plaque me at first more than now, I rarely get that unexpected higher morning read after two years. You may be experiencing it more now than you will later, or it may continue, no expert here just know what happened to me.

[MrsMia]

The serving size is 1/2 cup. I stuck to that at first, and didn't see much of an increase in BG a few hours later that night or the next morning. So I went up to 1 cup one night and still didn't see much of an increase. But that could be because I took my meds right before.

Last night I had a little over a cup and I definitely saw a small spike in BG this morning. The thing is, I often see BG spike in the morning - often for no good reason. Sometimes that just happens even if I've had almost no carbs the night before. So it's hard to say but I know FOR ME it seems like I can have somewhere between 1/2 cup and 1 cup without much problem. YMMV.

Regardless, that's more ice cream than I was having - which was ZERO. So I am stoked to have some, even if it is only 1/2 cup.

I will have to try Schwann's. It comes in vanilla I hope? I'll put a little bit of peanut butter in with it and it will be decadent for me. :) But I know what you mean. A 1/2 cup is like heaven. Thankfully we live in a time when there are such treats for us.

[SCAPER]

I am starting to think this "Net Carbs" thing is a bunch of b.s., concerning diabetics and BG levels.

I bought some bread at the local low-carb store. It has 13g carbs with 12g of fiber. So it was labelled "1 Net Carb". The thing is, the stuff looked and tasted like REGULAR bread! Not white bread. But I never at white bread anyway. The consistency was like a really good light whole wheat bread. Very soft and tasty, unlike most of the low-carb breads I see that are all nuts and dark and hard (compared to regular bread). So it was good stuff. Very tasty compared to the other yukky stuff I've tried in the low-carb bread category.

Anyway, at 2 pieces today for breakfast. And that's all I had. My BG level prior to the meal was around 120, which is pretty normal for me in the morning. A few hours after eating the "2 net carbs" my BG spiked to almost 200. I was like WTF??? I thought this stuff suposedly had only 1g. net carbs each. So I am starting to think a lot of the "net carb" stuff is a bunch of b.s. I know it's probably a matter of YMMV. But I was just surprised. I read somewhere that fiber doesn't count as a carb because it's not digested. Well, then if that's true, how come I got a huge spike from this stuff? Obviously, that's not true.

I'm thinking my diet is just going to mainly have to consist of TRUELY low-carb foods. Not "net" low carb. But REAL low carb. Meats, Eggs, Cheese, Vegies, Cream, Nuts. That's about it. Maybe I will be able to tolerate 1 piece of this bread once in a while. And maybe I will be able to tolerate it better once I get back into better shape. But for now, it seems like I'm going to have to stick to the REAL low carb stuff. Like the old-school Atkins, before all this "net carb" b.s. came about.

[davef]

All I know about the Schwan's Ice cream is it works for me!

I would urge you to concentrate on the "it works for me" aspect. Whether you buy your food in a regular grocery store or a lo-carb store (new concept to me) what really matters is what your meter tells you.

If you eat, test and learn, you will do well. I am guessing that you will find foods in a regular store that work for you and that cost less than in a specialty store. The early days are about testing and learning, after that you have a selection of foods you can combine to provide enjoyable, satisfying meals and you can continue to experiment but are safe in the knowledge that you have BG friendly foods to fall back on if experimentation provides unacceptable results.

[Granny Shanny]

I'm wish you on this, Scaper . . . I count all the carbs, period. And most of what I eat is NO carb - it just makes it easier.

That being said, I'm greatly enjoying my little carbquik pancakes/waffles. I use 'em like the normal breakfast menu with sausage or bacon, but I also use them like sandwich buns/bread.

Try this - you can use it for bread or buns, you can eat it like regular pancakes or make waffles instead . . . it's very versatile:

1 8oz Pkg cream cheese
3 eggs
1 pkg. Truvia
1/2 cup Carbquik (or Atkins - whatever) baking mix
2 tbsp. buttermilk solids
1/2 tsp baking powder
water if needed to make pourable batter

Preheat electric skillet or waffle iron to 350°.

Beat cream cheese with mixer until blended smooth, add eggs one at a time, mixing until smooth; add the remaining ingredients, mixing until smooth. Spray skillet or waffle iron with butter-flavored non stick spray and use 2 tbsp. batter for each pancake.

2 carbs per pancake

I am starting to think this "Net Carbs" thing is a bunch of b.s., concerning diabetics and BG levels.

I bought some bread at the local low-carb store. It has 13g carbs with 12g of fiber. So it was labelled "1 Net Carb". The thing is, the stuff looked and tasted like REGULAR bread! Not white bread. But I never at white bread anyway. The consistency was like a really good light whole wheat bread. Very soft and tasty, unlike most of the low-carb breads I see that are all nuts and dark and hard (compared to regular bread). So it was good stuff. Very tasty compared to the other yukky stuff I've tried in the low-carb bread category.

Anyway, at 2 pieces today for breakfast. And that's all I had. My BG level prior to the meal was around 120, which is pretty normal for me in the morning. A few hours after eating the "2 net carbs" my BG spiked to almost 200. I was like WTF??? I thought this stuff suposedly had only 1g. net carbs each. So I am starting to think a lot of the "net carb" stuff is a bunch of b.s. I know it's probably a matter of YMMV. But I was just surprised. I read somewhere that fiber doesn't count as a carb because it's not digested. Well, then if that's true, how come I got a huge spike from this stuff? Obviously, that's not true.

I'm thinking my diet is just going to mainly have to consist of TRUELY low-carb foods. Not "net" low carb. But REAL low carb. Meats, Eggs, Cheese, Vegies, Cream, Nuts. That's about it. Maybe I will be able to tolerate 1 piece of this bread once in a while. And maybe I will be able to tolerate it better once I get back into better shape. But for now, it seems like I'm going to have to stick to the REAL low carb stuff. Like the old-school Atkins, before all this "net carb" b.s. came about.

[SCAPER]

Yah, I am even starting to question the Schwan's Ice Cream a little bit. It seems if I stay at 1/2 cup I am fine. Little effect on BG levels. But a half cup of ice cream is like hardly anything. So I usually eat at least 1 full cup. Sometimes a cup and half (almost a pint). When I do that, I notice that my BG levels go up a little more than usual the next morning. Without the ice cream before bed time I might end up around 95-110 area in the morning. With the ice cream at bed time I end up around 120-130. Maybe a little more depending on the day.

But overall, I tolerate it okay, as long as I stay in relatively small amounts. I suppose with my condition ANY ice cream is better than none. So I should be happy with even small amounts.

I figured the same would be true for breads. But NOOOO. So yah, I guess I gotta do more testing. It's just frustrating when they paint something as low-carb then to find out that it's really not, at least in terms of it's affect on BG. I thought finally I found a bread I could eat that actually TASTES great. Then to find out I really can't eat it is very frustrating. I am sure it will be like that with a lot of things that are trying to get away with the "net carb" trick.