Porcine Hypurin NPH

[Independent]

Could any tell me if it possible to buy Hypurin porcine NPH insulin and have it shipped to the UK? been using Lantus and it has been the worst 5 years of my life. sick of being a guinea pig and want to go back to my original insulin. but having trouble finding an endo who will prescribe it for me and I cant wait any longer. so where can I buy it?

Thanks

Indy

[mortis505]

Indy, what type of problems are you having? Have you done any basal testing?

[Independent]

its the dawn thing which is messing everything up. plus ive never felt so unwell whilst using the Lantus. been down every possible avenue. Stopped the Lantus after trying injecting at every time of the day, split doses and different amounts.
Never felt so well since stopping the lantus and the morning numbers are exactly the same and I can now sleep for more than 3 hours at a time. plus the nausea has almost disappeared. I can think clearly now too and those around me have noticed a difference in my personality and appearance. never felt so good. just need something to cover the waking effect. porcine nph would suit my needs ideally.

indy

[xMenace]

A better long term option might be to get a pump.

Can you not buy NPH over the counter?

[Subby]

Levemir might be another option to try, if no luck getting onto the porcine. I sympathise with Lantus issues. Wild dogs couldn't drag me back onto it, I felt very poorly with it in my system, rather like an AD gone wrong.

[Independent]

glad its not just me then. the endo basically treated me like a newly diagnoised fool. not really professional considering i'm in my 30th year of the big D.
I lost my temper with this guy and stormed out of the consultation. I have lodged a complaint against him and am getting either my gp take take care of me, if he co-operates, or refere me to the other hospital.
got sick and tired of that place anyway, different doc everytime and each time get treated like I am newly diagnoised and have to go over 30 years worth of details. really gets my goat. Like i dont know whats good for me.

[SueM]

Hiya The insulin you require is available in the UK :)
It called Hypurin Isophane
Wockhardt UK (http://www.wockhardt.co.uk/products/productdetail.asp?productid=134)
These people will give you some good advice to
Insulin Dependent Diabetes Trust (http://www.iddtinternational.org/index.htm)

[SueM]

A better long term option might be to get a pump.

Can you not buy NPH over the counter?

Lol not sure what's going to be the bigest fight getting a pump or getting the Isophane on prescription.
No insulin can not be bought over the counter in the UK

Indi,
Please make sure you quote patient choice and the diabetes charter at the Dr's if you have a problem getting the Isophane.
Best wishes
Sue

[Subby]

glad its not just me then. the endo basically treated me like a newly diagnoised fool. not really professional considering i'm in my 30th year of the big D.
I lost my temper with this guy and stormed out of the consultation. I have lodged a complaint against him and am getting either my gp take take care of me, if he co-operates, or refere me to the other hospital.
got sick and tired of that place anyway, different doc everytime and each time get treated like I am newly diagnoised and have to go over 30 years worth of details. really gets my goat. Like i dont know whats good for me.

Hey, you're an insulin dependent diabetic. That means you are emotionally unstable and untrustworthy to judge your own sense of "well being". You have "issues" with being dependent and have a psychological complex about insulin "doing you in". You are cowering for your life, in extreme denial and there to be placated and put in your place... You think you know what you are doing but it's a quaint conceit, any devation from perfect sugars and being fit and healthy in every way, are likely to be caused by your ineptitude and ignorance, as any textbook will show, glycemic management is always logical and straightforward and only an idiot or a child could stuff it up.

OK, so I'm channeling the extreme end of this kind of attitude... but yeah, I've been there, with a number of "professionals". :D Try and have a laugh about it (I know this doesn't take the sting out quickly, but you've got to laugh...) and have a look around for one of the good guys... if you can find them.

[Independent]

Thank you very much people some good info there. seeing my GP on monday so hopefully will make some progress.
thank you once again. I'll keep you updated.;)

[shiftzor]

I would really recommend pumping, I can't tell how much better I feel on it and how much control it gives me. My experiences of Lantus where not as extreme as yours but I am very glad not to be using it.

I would certainly get a two week trial of pumping (with salty water(saline solution) and not insulin) to see if you like it. You must fit into the nice guidelines quite "nicely" :D, use that as an argument for pumping.

[Independent]

Hey, you're an insulin dependent diabetic. That means you are emotionally unstable and untrustworthy to judge your own sense of "well being". You have "issues" with being dependent and have a psychological complex about insulin "doing you in". You are cowering for your life, in extreme denial and there to be placated and put in your place... You think you know what you are doing but it's a quaint conceit, any devation from perfect sugars and being fit and healthy in every way, are likely to be caused by your ineptitude and ignorance, as any textbook will show, glycemic management is always logical and straightforward and only an idiot or a child could stuff it up.

OK, so I'm channeling the extreme end of this kind of attitude... but yeah, I've been there, with a number of "professionals". :D Try and have a laugh about it (I know this doesn't take the sting out quickly, but you've got to laugh...) and have a look around for one of the good guys... if you can find them.
:D :D :D :D

made me and the mrs laugh. did you steal that script from a medical college;) :cool:

[JJM335]

Thank you very much people some good info there. seeing my GP on monday so hopefully will make some progress.
thank you once again. I'll keep you updated.;)

Indy:

The problem is not so much that Lantus is a "bad insulin", but that it has been designed to give as flat a profile as possible, and that is NOT what a lot of us need. If (like me) you have major Dawn Phenomenon issues, you not only need a lot more basal insulin in your system between about 5 am and early/mid morning, but most likely you have other times of the day when you need a lot more or a lot less basal insulin and the "flat" release of Lantus is not going to give you that.

By changing back to NPH/Isophane, which is quite "peaky" you may be lucky enough to get the NPH peak to coincide with time of greatest basal need. However that is a bit like having a car which is veering sharply to the left because the steering is out of alignment, and trying to sort it out by deflating the front right tyre. You might make it work, but it is not an ideal solution.

Like Shiftzor suggests, your best bet may be a pump. Pumps can involve a lot of work, and they don't guarantee "perfect" BG's but they do deal pretty effectively with Dawn Phenomenon, and if (as I suspect) you have uneven basal requirements at other times of the day, a pump will deal with that too.

At the very least you may want to think about the possiblity and consider the options. Given any sort of sympathetic consultant, you should meet the NICE-2008 guidelines for eligibility. As you are asking your GP to refer you to a different clinic you need to find out which clinics in your area are "pump friendly" and ask your GP to refer you there. If you need more information about suitable clinics, you may want to post your profile on the Insulin Pumpers UK website.

Insulin Pumpers UK (http://www.insulin-pumpers.org.uk/)

If you decide that you want to go down the pump route, it will help you if you can provide your new consultant with as detailed logs as possible. Test frequently and keep good records.

Best of luck

Joel

[Independent]

Been to see my GP this morning, she is absolutely fantastic, she is making a few enquiries and calling me back tomorrow. For me to get a pump I would have to make a mess of my numbers for a while because I am now only having problems in the morning. the rest is perfect once i get the numbers down.

And I want some C peptide.

it was thought I had various complications after 30 years turns out it was the Lantus causing all of these issues. I feel absolutely fantastic and alive for the first time since i started using that stuff.

dont want a pump until the technology is a little better.

indy

[SueM]

Been to see my GP this morning, she is absolutely fantastic, she is making a few enquiries and calling me back tomorrow. For me to get a pump I would have to make a mess of my numbers for a while because I am now only having problems in the morning. the rest is perfect once i get the numbers down.

And I want some C peptide.

it was thought I had various complications after 30 years turns out it was the Lantus causing all of these issues. I feel absolutely fantastic and alive for the first time since i started using that stuff.

dont want a pump until the technology is a little better.

indy

Hi Indy,
Sounds as if you had a good meeting.
Pump technology is very good these days.
But a pump is only as good as the user. You have to put the work in.
You do not need to make a mess of your numbers if MDI is not working for you then you are entitled to a pump.
I can't quite work out whether or not you got the porcine insulin though.

[Independent]

No havent got the porcine yet. she wants to run my idea past an endo but promised me I'd have it by the end of the week either way. just covering herself i think.

[xMenace]

dont want a pump until the technology is a little better.


I'm not complaining about my 5.9% A1C and near cure of my DP from H***! It is very worth it IMHO.

[Independent]

I just get the feeling that they don't like pumps and would make it difficult for me to get one. I'll be sent to the other hospital within the next 8 weeks so it won't hurt to enquire.

ps
the doc also noticed the change in my appearance and mood.
yeeeeehaaaw

[SueM]

No havent got the porcine yet. she wants to run my idea past an endo but promised me I'd have it by the end of the week either way. just covering herself i think.

Now that should be interesting. Most endo's have a bee in their bonnets about getting people off of animal insulin's even instructing the DSN's to say it's not available anymore.
Make sure you stick to your guns and get the insulin of your choice. There is no reason for your GP not to write that prescription then and there.
I have always point blank refused to use the synthetic insulin's and analogues. I have a pump now and use bovine neutral in it with no problems at all.
I do not see an endo either all my diabetes care comes via my GP. :)

[Independent]

Thanks Sue, you are like a fountain of knowledge.

[Independent]

Well the doctor nevr got back to me. not sure what to do now. maybe I would be best booking a flight to NYC and buy what I need. would I be able to do this. gonna be quite expensive but it would appear I have no other choice:(

The NHS is a joke:mad:

[SueM]

Well the doctor nevr got back to me. not sure what to do now. maybe I would be best booking a flight to NYC and buy what I need. would I be able to do this. gonna be quite expensive but it would appear I have no other choice:(

The NHS is a joke:mad:

Well you ring the Dr, tomorrow when the surgery opens.
Why would you book a flight to NYC? :confused:
You can not buy porcine insulin in the USA they inport it from the UK where it's made and only on a named bases.

[Independent]

I need to get some treatment asap and I am being failed by the UK's NHS. consultation fees are cheaper in the USA. If I pay for a private consultation here I will have to pay the full price for the script.

my only other option is a contact in Russia but thats black market and dont wanna get involed with that.

I really am at my wits end now and yet again ive been left out to die.


anyone on here live in France and have any idea if i could get treatment there not being a frenchman.

indy

[Independent]

I also made an official complaint with the PCT and directly to the cheif exec of the hospital responsible for my care. apparently they are oblidged to respond within 2 working days. Its now 4 days and I have heard nothing.?????????

I would rather pay thru the nose than put up with this nonsense. grrrrrrr

[SueM]

I also made an official complaint with the PCT and directly to the cheif exec of the hospital responsible for my care. apparently they are oblidged to respond within 2 working days. Its now 4 days and I have heard nothing.?????????

I would rather pay thru the nose than put up with this nonsense. grrrrrrr

Well go back to your GP tomorrow and ask for a prescription.
Point out you have no basal and you want some of your choice.
Throwing toys out of the pram does work wonders :D
You should see what I achieved when trying to get funding for pump consumables.
It is safe to say I brought my PCT to it's knees :D

[JJM335]

I just get the feeling that they don't like pumps and would make it difficult for me to get one. I'll be sent to the other hospital within the next 8 weeks so it won't hurt to enquire.

ps
the doc also noticed the change in my appearance and mood.
yeeeeehaaaw

Sadly, too many Diabetes Clinics are still anti-pump. However, there are plenty that are pump-friendly and it does sound like you ought to qualify under the NICE guidelines. I suspect that a high proportion of UK pumpers have had to make the effort to get a pump - some have had a real fight - but they do succeed in the end.

Since you are looking to move to a new clinic, I would make the effort to try to identify one that would be sympathetic to a pump. Even if you decide not to go down that route, it won't do any harm.

Joel

[Independent]

so do you think I would have any chance of getting a pump?

I just want to get back to work and carry on with my life.

[SueM]

so do you think I would have any chance of getting a pump?

I just want to get back to work and carry on with my life.

Yes you do qualify for a pump. When fighting for a pump the answer no does not exist.
Some places will just say you can have a pump some you have to fight for it. But it's you who has to be proactive. Moaning on here wont get you that pump.
So start by getting a case together ie bs numbers/hypos how unwell you were on Lantoss. Show them a food diary with proof that you can carb count show that you know your correction factors. Buy the book pumping insulin by John Walsh. Oh and tell them why you think you will benefit from a pump.
Do you carb count? If not no pump until you do but besides that you qualify.
But I thought the issue was getting porcine insulin!
Have you made that call to ask where your prescription is?
There are well over 50,000 people using animal insulin's in the UK so there should be no problem getting it.

[Independent]

Just recieved another appointment for the hospital clinic. called the hospital a spoke to the consultants secretary. my consultant is out of the country, no wonder my gp hasnt got back to me, so the secretary is taking my notes to the other consultant and will phone me back.
the secretary seemed to have more idea of what i was talking about than the registray I saw last week. confusing or what.

fingers crossed.

[Independent]

not been able to get thru to my GP. been carb counting and dose adjusting since 1989 long before the DAFNE thing came about.

I work well on a 5grams of carb to 1 unit of apidra depending upon the circumstances ie exercise and how busy my day is.

[SueM]

not been able to get thru to my GP. been carb counting and dose adjusting since 1989 long before the DAFNE thing came about.

I work well on a 5grams of carb to 1 unit of apidra depending upon the circumstances ie exercise and how busy my day is.

Well go down there then. You need a basal insulin end of story.
Doors will be open at 2pm so go there and wait.

[Independent]

Just got back from the hospital, got an emergency consultation last minute kinda thing. fantastic, experienced doctor. discussed all my options. they will give me a pump if I want one, but have decided in the mean time to try Levemir. If I have no joy with this stuff I'll be going pumping training. but I really dont want one as it wouldnt suit my lifestyle.

all good got the respect I deserve and made a joint decision.

see what happens in the morning.

indy

[JJM335]

they will give me a pump if I want one, but have decided in the mean time to try Levemir. If I have no joy with this stuff I'll be going pumping training. but I really dont want one as it wouldnt suit my lifestyle.

indy

Hmmm...

Why do you say that about your lifestyle? Unless you are a professional Diver, or have some other occupation like Astronaut that is physically incompatible with wearing a pump it shouldn't be a problem. All of the pumpers that I know say that it gives them a lot more freedom, better control, and an improved life. About the only exceptions I have come across are a small minority that don't get proper training. However, since you have been carb-counting since the ice-age, you shouldn't have a problem with that.

Joel

[Independent]

I'm invovled in a lot of high impact extreme sports where the pump would certaily break. messing around giving extra bolus and then having to remove the thing and put it back on would be far to much messing about. I skate a lot of vert, pool and bowl.

At the end of the day its my choice.

ps left the hospital and the gp phoned me. lol good girl. and she's quite sexy.

[Independent]

just woke up after a very good sleep. 5.8

only the first day but that number is fine by me.

feel good too.

near non diabetic bloods now without the lantus and morning spike.

yeeeehaaw.
can get on with my life now.

thats for all the advice peeps

adios