Low Carb - cut back or cold turkey?

[GeishaGirl]

I'm again determined to give low carb a wholehearted shot, and I want to start my planning. I'm pretty sick right now, so I figure I'll give myself 5 days to a week before I implement any changes, but I wanted honest opinions and pros and cons.

I eat a LOT of carbs, not gonna lie. Sugars aren't bad -- not great, but not bad -- but my weight is horrible and I never feel well. I figure this is just as valid an experiment as anything else :) I tend to eat the standard 200-300g of carbs a day, with a decent amount of bread, and (*blush*) candy. I know I'm a carb/sugar addict, and I want these things to be sincere treats, and not ways of life.

So what are the pros and cons of cutting back slowly vs cold turkey? Neither worked in my past attempts, so I'm wondering if I just did it all wrong. What has worked in the past?

[xMenace]

I found and still find that compromising leads to higyher carb intakes than planned. Go cold turkey for a couple of weeks. 50g a day!

Easing in may be safer though. There are changes in insulin use patterns - for me less spiking but higher numbers later in the cycle, and an overall increase in "liver dumping". Where change happens danger lurks.

[fgummett]

Bearing in mind I am talking from a Type 2 (on insulin pump) and obese perspective, and assuming that you are comfortable making your own insulin adjustments...

I'd add my vote for a cold turkey start: I found it easier than having to count carbs, and when making choices of what to eat or not, I just skipped anything that listed > 1g carbs per serving... anything that did not meet this criteria was thrown away and removed from my grocery shopping list -- no temptation that way and on the plus side it meant I could eat fairly freely of everything that was on my list... so I did not feel hungry or deprived.

After the initial "induction" phase -- which I believe is important to reset the body into fat burning mode -- I then started adding back green leafy veg and some berries... but only real whole foods... nothing processed or packaged.

There is Protein and Gluconeogenesis to consider but I find (as a Type 2) that this has a stabilizing effect with very few BG peaks or troughs as a result.

--

Maybe do some basal testing first to be sure you have your basal(s) set correctly... in theory this may not change much, if at all, on low-carb... what is most likely to change first is your meal-time bolus.

[foxl]

I'd vote for cold turkey ... the cravings recede faster!

[jer.lawrence]

I guess I lean the same way. I don't know how many a day I ate before, but when I was Dx, I tried to cut back to 30g a day (right off).

.. I didn't make that, I don't think, and settled on closer to 50g a day.. I now try to shoot for less than 75g a day. I don't plan to go any higher than this for a good while because I feel like I am still (slowly) losing weight at this level.

It seemed like I craved them for a couple of weeks this way, but got over it pretty quickly.

AAActually, I'm trying to lose a good amount of weight in the next 2 weeks, so I'm thinking about cutting back to much lower for the next couple of weeks as well.

[plattb1]

Cold turkey will be the only way to be truly successful if you're a true carb junkie ... then, after you achieve good control, you may be able to slowly add some complex carbs back in.

YMMV - just my opinion.

[dbaratta]

So what are the pros and cons of cutting back slowly vs cold turkey? Neither worked in my past attempts, so I'm wondering if I just did it all wrong. What has worked in the past?[/QUOTE]

Cold turkey will make you feel weak. You need carbs for energy and brain power. Personally I eat 45g a day on most days, on a heavy carb day I will eat 65g. I have an extremely low tolerance for carbs....that is just me though. Eat complex carbs you get from fruits and veggies, cut out the simple carbs to start, bread, packaged foods, ect.. That is what I would do. ;)

[DeusXM]

As a T1 who doesn't low-carb, take this for what it's worth...


...I'd just start cutting back, if I were you.

Simply going cold turkey will play havoc with your basals and pretty much undo all the certainties you have about how your BG management works. It may also make your liver panic and start spilling out glucose and you could end up yo-yoing before you find a safe level.

Furthermore, if you're eating a lot of carbs at the moment, going CT will leave you feeling like "Uh, so now what am I supposed to eat?" You'll end up just eating lots of meat, get bored very quickly and be right back where you started.

However, if you cut back steadily, you should avoid these problems, find a diet you're more likely to stick to in the long run (thus getting any health benefits) and you'll also probably find you'll still be able to eat your particular favourite carbs without suffering any bad effects.

[Josselyn]

My recommendations is to select which works better for you - Atkins or South Beach (READ the book while you're sick) - and follow their induction program (2 weeks). SB is less strict, but the results in your BG and weight will be more dramatic with a modified Atkins (add more leafy veggies to avoid constipation those first two weeks).

I find that on the 8th day, I feel stronger...I can pump up the stairs. Must be the protein.

After those two weeks - and you really have to follow it closely - you will notice your cravings for carbs have diminished, your hunger is reduced, your weight is dropping, and your BG will thank you within the first few days! You've turned your body from a carb burning machine into a fat burning machine, and you'll lose fat.

One gradually adds a certain amount of carb back into the diet, but not the white stuff...not even Dreamfields for a while. You can do some of that on maintenance.

I lost almost 100 pounds on Atkins...and was never hungry. I wasn't always satisfied (I do like my carbs), but I was not hungry. I do wish I'd stayed on it...I'd be thinner, and perhaps, not a T2 at this point in time.
Who knows?

I'm about ready for another round of induction to accelerate my weight loss; care to join me? We can comiserate the first two weeks.

Anyway, FEEL BETTER SOON!

[Handybear]

I went cold turkey the day I was diagnosed as Type 2. Doc put me on Actos and Metformin.
I found the 6-12-12 low carb program and started that day.

Three years later I am 77 lbs lighter, and off both of the meds.

[soso]

If it were me I would prolly go cold turkey..but another good approach is cut out all the bread first and do not replace those carbs.. after a week cut out the candy and by then you will have less carbs to drop. Another thing I did was cook up a load of LC treats and have them in the freezer so I could feel indulgent at a few mins notice.
good luck

[SteveFromIowa]

Another T2 perspective here. IMHO, everything in moderation. I am not lo-carb, but reduced carb. And not every day is the same. Some days for me certainly qualify as lo-carb with less than 40 carbs total intake. I've had several days that I eliminated all bolus injections. Some days I may be in the 150 carb range. Most days probably average 90 - 110 carbs. This offers a little variety without going to the extreme. Keeping the average to a reduced level has produced (for me, YMMV) a slow but steady weight loss, plus a drastically reduced A1c and triglyceride count.

Set a goal for an average carb count per day. Set a maximum amount for "cheating" days (say 150 carbs), then eat by your meter to make those goals a reality.

Good luck and be sure to share what works for you.

[GeishaGirl]

Thanks for the opinions, guys :) I'm not sure I'm ready to do solid Atkins (sorry Joss :)) yet mostly because any kind of drastic change NEVER works for me unless I'm 100% into it... and I'm not :) Hubby and I go grocery shopping tomorrow, so here's what I'm thinking:

- NO bread, pasta, stupid candy, etc
- Actually get some fresh fruit and bagged salad, along with some deli meats, chick peas, and cheese -- I make a killer chef's salad. :)
- Get a few frozen meals with under 30g of carbs for emergency days (usually when I oversleep and can't make a salad!)
- Order more egg protien -- I also make killer protien smoothies with less than 5g of carbs per :)
- Get my ingredients for my Famous Black Forest Cheesecake Muffins to have something sweet -- oh, and get some SF Jello.

I may decide to have rice at some point -- it's the only starch-heavy food that I can eat without a major BG spike.

That's about all I got :P I'm a little stuck otherwise.

[soso]

sounds like a good plan to me.. I find if I have good foods ready to go (bagged salads etc) I eat them..if not I start looking for easy things and they are rarely as good for me....

[ShottleBop]

I'm again determined to give low carb a wholehearted shot, and I want to start my planning. I'm pretty sick right now, so I figure I'll give myself 5 days to a week before I implement any changes, but I wanted honest opinions and pros and cons.

I eat a LOT of carbs, not gonna lie. Sugars aren't bad -- not great, but not bad -- but my weight is horrible and I never feel well. I figure this is just as valid an experiment as anything else :) I tend to eat the standard 200-300g of carbs a day, with a decent amount of bread, and (*blush*) candy. I know I'm a carb/sugar addict, and I want these things to be sincere treats, and not ways of life.

So what are the pros and cons of cutting back slowly vs cold turkey? Neither worked in my past attempts, so I'm wondering if I just did it all wrong. What has worked in the past?

I just listened to an interview between Livin' La Vida Low Carb's Jimmy Moore and Diane Kress, author of The Metabolism Miracle. She recommends an 8-week induction period of extremely low-carb (although, based on the interview, she doesn't appear to include veggies, cottage cheese, and some other foods as prohibited carbs, as did Atkins)--to give the pancreas a vacation. Otherwise, she says, it will continue to operate in overdrive.

[Caravaggio]

What helped me reduce my carb intake was Dr. Gott's prescription - No Flour, No Sugar. I believe he does not prescribe potatoes. By sugar, he means added sugar. As it wasn't written for people with diabetes or pre-diabetes, Dr. Gott's prescription is quite liberal with fruits (fruits are sweet, but they have no added sugar) and rice (because it is not flour). For people with diabetes/pre-diabetes, you have to determine how much your body can tolerate fruits (or rice) without wrecking your blood glucose. Anyway, I find his formula easy to remember.

Ann Louise Gittleman has a book called Get the Sugar Out. Taken into account that it wasn't written for people with diabetes, the book gives tips on how to slowly weed oneself off sugar and sugary food. This may also be a good start.

Good luck!

[GeishaGirl]

I just listened to an interview between Livin' La Vida Low Carb's Jimmy Moore and Diane Kress, author of The Metabolism Miracle. She recommends an 8-week induction period of extremely low-carb (although, based on the interview, she doesn't appear to include veggies, cottage cheese, and some other foods as prohibited carbs, as did Atkins)--to give the pancreas a vacation. Otherwise, she says, it will continue to operate in overdrive.

I'm a type 1. My pancreas isn't just on vacation, it's taken a permanent leave of absence! No overdrive, just a dead car on the side of the road :) I've been kicking the tires for awhile, but no response :D

[ShottleBop]

Oooops! Not paying enough attention to "type." In that case, I guess, some pertinent questions are how bad are your carb cravings, and will taking them down in stages allow you sufficient control to reduce them successfully.

[Subby]

Geisha, I'm not really low carb, but I have cut back substantially from pretty normal carb eating some years ago. I did it in stages, the "t1 way" - as in, over the time, cutting out carbs that spiked me, so naturally gravitating to less carbs. Then probably a year ago, tackling carb cravings more completely, as they led to over eating and more spikes.

That said I know that's slightly different. You can crave things that don't spike you (although I think ther is often a connection) and you have a goal to cut back to low carb levels, not just remove the worst offenders.

Now, I know you might just want to go cold turkey or do it another way, but I'm just thinking through how it worked for me to get to about 100 - 120g (and craving free, usually).

This is the way I cut back (and how it might make sense for a type 1 at least)
- First to go, must be carbs that really badly spike you. If you are high, you are likely to have more cravings (I get them uncontrollably)
- Second to go is to tackle everything that gives you those nasty cravings, with those around you will be living a nightmare trying to deal with the cravings and not eat those carbs...
- Finally with those out the way, you should be pretty serene and calm to pick and choose and modify your diet as you like, with other "good" carbs.

About the carbs that give cravings: I found it takes about 2 or 3 days to break from them, and that time it may as well be as strong as nicotine (which is meant to be as strong as heroin, I have heard tell). In other words, I think you need to tackle cravings in a "campaign" all for themselves, I think cutting back craving foods is just likely not going to work. Just expect you might be climbing the walls while the cravings recede. I found "stepdown" carbs like fruit, invaluable to avoid eating the craving foods.

[lark 27]

My 2 pennies: I don't subscribe to a low carb diet so I'd aim for reducing as opposed to cold turkey. Although literally eating cold turkey is a nice low-carb snack. I was probably averaging 250-350 carbs per day last year and now I average about 120-150. This is inclusive of any carbs that I might need for low BG treatment. With that said, I echo some of what Suby was saying because the more I am identifying the foods that cause spikes and cravings, I naturally reduce or eliminate them and this has me on a path towards probably lower carb still. I don't think I'll ever get to 50 c a day, but if you asked me a couple years ago if I'd be at 150 avg. per day, I'd say no.

[shades9323]

I don't know. When I want to lose weight, I consume less calories than I burn.

What do you <50g of carbs a day eat ususally? The only single meal I ever have with less that 50g is breakfast.

[dbaratta]

I went cold turkey the day I was diagnosed as Type 2. Doc put me on Actos and Metformin.
I found the 6-12-12 low carb program and started that day.

Three years later I am 77 lbs lighter, and off both of the meds.

WOW way to go on the weight loss!!!

[jillybean]

I don't know. When I want to lose weight, I consume less calories than I burn.

What do you <50g of carbs a day eat ususally? The only single meal I ever have with less that 50g is breakfast.
For me, it's not just about weight loss, but glucose control (I'm type 2 not on insulin). I find it easy to eat low carb for any meal. Meat and veggies - no need for bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, etc. I eat out a lot...here are some sample lunch/dinner meals:

fast food - any grilled chicken sandwich or cheeseburger without the bun. Bacon, cheese, mayo, lettuce...all fine, but no bun
salad - greens topped with grilled/roasted chicken, bacon, cheese, cucumber, creamy or oil-based (non-sweet) dressing
steak or chicken or pork or fish and non-starchy veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, green beans, side salad...whatever they have)
Kentucky Grilled Chicken!


I went 8 weeks of never eating more than 5g total carbs (I don't mess with "net" carbs) per sitting. I was averaging about 15g total carbs per day. I had my best glucose control ever during that time.

[ShottleBop]

I don't know. When I want to lose weight, I consume less calories than I burn.

What do you <50g of carbs a day eat ususally? The only single meal I ever have with less that 50g is breakfast.

There's a thread (http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/dieting-and-nutrition-diabetes/39716-low-carb-daily-diet.html) for that! ("Low Carb Daily Diet", currently on the second page under "Dieting and nutrition for diabetes.")

[Mystae]

Funny that you ask this now...

I have had D for nearly 13 years now and have JUST NOW (finally) gotten to the point where I am taking control of my carb/candy intake.

I have been doing low(er) carbs for about two months now, with great success for my blood sugars, limited success for weight loss. But I'm doing it more for my blood sugars at this point, although I have lost about four pounds, which is always good. :O)

I gained 65 lbs. with my first daughter that has never come off, which has really screwed with my insulin requirements, on top of my heavy carb intake. I too, was taking in around 200-300 per day until a couple of months ago when I made this jump.

It has taken me a long time to get to a place where I can accept that this is not a diet, it's a life-change and a way of living that involves a total re-evaluation of my relationship with food.

That having been said, I have cut my carbs to 90-105 carbs per day, and on some days having only around 50, but interestingly, I never feel deprived. Part of that is because I EAT WHATEVER I WANT. I just eat LESS of it. If I want hot chocolate, I have a cup of hot chocolate, complete with marshmallows... It's just a very small cup... If I want pasta, I have pasta (I'm eating dreamfields, though, because it doesn't affect my BG the way others do). If I want a piece of bread and butter, I have one, I just am very careful about what breads I buy (always super-high fiber ones).

It takes more time to count it all out, yes, and that is sometimes hard when I'm rushing out the door and need to eat. But after a few weeks, I now know exactly how much of something I can eat, which helps. I count EVERYTHING, too. I don't use artificial sweeteners, so my drinks have been reduced to coffee, hot tea, water, and the (very) occasional tiny glass of juice... So I am counting the honey, agave, or raw sugar I use in my coffee or tea... I have also gone through all my favorite snacks and found the ones that have the lowest carb count and include protein, and those are the ones I keep handy for a quick "something." I've also been loading up on protein whenever I'm hungry - nuts are great! So is cottage cheese.

I've also been doing a lot of baking... Because it's fall, and I love to bake. And have been experimenting with lower-carb flours (coconut, oat, almond, etc.)... Cakes, muffins, everything. And I have a little of everything, but again, I count every carb that goes into them (as much as possible - I will always round up), and then divide that amount by the servings...

Good luck! It's been a great experience for me so far, and I hope yours is, too.

Oh, and I forgot to add - I have little self-control when it comes to carbs, which is WHY I went with lower carbs rather than cold turkey. My hubby has gone cold turkey three times in the last five months, and has lost control every time, on top of gaining back all the weight he's lost each time. I'm not interested in that...