liver dumping,what is this ???

[kimbo]

hi all
I picked up the liver dumping term while browseing here.
I am wondering what it is ? I had lost a lot of weight and often had discomfort under my right ribs,it was for this i went to the doctor and found i was diabetic. it has settled down now,i dont feel it as often so i wondered if this has been due to diabetes ,if so how/why ?

kimbo

[Cinnabon]

Liver dumps are created by a normal increase in the production and release
of growth hormone, and to a lesser extent by cortisol and adrenaline, which
trigger the production and release of glucose from the liver. If this need is
not met by an increase in insulin delivery, the blood sugar rises as daylight
approaches and is high when the person wakes= DAWN Phenomenom, AKA Morning madness!!

[Mick]

Just expanding on that a bit--"Liver Dump" comes from the process of the liver dumping glucose into the blood stream whenever it is needed--that is one of the many functions the liver serves in the body--it is a storehouse, a reservoir of glucose. The trigger for the liver to dump sugar is the manufacture of the messenger hormone glycogen by the pancreas. So--the pancreas produces glycogen, which signals the liver to dump glucose. What makes the pancreas produce glycogen? Any time there is not sufficient glucose in the tissues and organs to carry out normal metabolic processes and functions, this will occur. It is the production of insulin by the pancreas which signals the liver to turn OFF this dump. SO--if your pancreas will produce glycogen but not insulin (Type 1 diabetes), you've got a problem with your liver dump--cuz whenever it begins to dump (which is whenever you get low blood sugar!), it'll continue to dump until it runs out of stored glucose--and by then, your blood sugar levels might be sky high. What produced this high blood sugar? LOW blood sugar! This is called "Gluconeogenisis self-regulated response", but for a T1 diabetic, we are not all that self-regulated--what happens automatically in other people is on manual control for us. SO--it's WAY more complicated than just injecting insulin and calculating carbs, as one can see--there are other highly complex mechanisms in the body which have also gone haywire and require our control and regulation, our very specific awareness of and response to. Probably more than anyone wished to know about Liver Dump, eh?

Michael
Still studying...

[duck]

...also can be triggered by "intense" exercise like weightlifting or sprinting. Some suffer from it badly, others not so bad. I personally do not suffer from liver dumps when I lift weights, and I have historically not had a problem with dawn phenomenon (if you are a "morning person", you seem to be more prone to dawn phenonmenon).

[kimbo]

Thanks for explaining,though i will have to read these a few more times for it to make sense.My first lab blood test was 8.30am fasting blood 16 (288) and a few days later at lunch time non fasting it was 26. (475) could this explain my discomfort,is this liver dumping??. people involved in my care plan said my liver was maybe a bit aggitated.It is all a bit confusing to me at the moment.

kimbo

[duck]

Kimbo, forgive me if you have posted this elsewhere, but we need some more details:

Are you Type 1 or Type 2?

What meds are you on (insulin, pills, etc.) and when do you take them?

[kimbo]

I am type 2 for 5 weeks,but the diabetic nurse said because i am not a typical t2 ie 47yrs and not over weight it is possible i have slow onset t1,she,s proberbly just being cautious.
I am on 500g metformin and 120 gr gliclazide morning and evening,but on my first meeting with the specialist nurse she said she wouldnt be surprised if i went on insulin, proberbly as my bloods were 26 (475)when i found out i had this.i think i have had it for some time as i was not feeling very good but put it down to hormones stress ect.My dad died 2 yrs ago and i am told the stress could have been the trigger ??

[Harold]

I am type 2 for 5 weeks,but the diabetic nurse said because i am not a typical t2 ie 47yrs and not over weight it is possible i have slow onset t1,she,s proberbly just being cautious.
Despite what you hear in the media, overall Obesity is only the 2nd most common reason for type 2 diabetes (the most common for those younger than forty or maybe fifty). Age is the most common in that everyone as they age becomes a little more resistant, and as we age the beta cells wear out and don't produce as much insulin. Genetics and mileage go a long way to determine if / when you may get it. Also other deseases, statisticly show an increase in ones chances of bringing it on at an earlier age.

Many doctors believe it does not matter which one you have. Since Type 2 has been classified as a progressive desease they figure you will end up on insulin anyway. Also many will treat late onset early on the same as type 2. Now if you just gotta know there are two tests. One is the c-peptide to determine insulin level, and the other an islet beta cell Antibody test. The antibody test is the more expensive test so the c-peptide is usually given first.

One thing I have noticed with people developing type 2 in their late forties and on is a quick unexplained increase in weight of 20 to 30 pounds over the recommended weight in the one to two years prior to being dx'd with type 2. So if you did not experience this you may very well be a late onset Type 1 vs. a somewhat early onset Type 2.

[Lynne]

Early after diagnosis as you gradually gain more control, you're likely to have more liver dumps and lows as your bg scores 'swing'. Though a liver dump is always possible, they will become less common as you tighten your bg levels. :)

[MarkMunday]

I am type 2 for 5 weeks,but the diabetic nurse said because i am not a typical t2 ie 47yrs and not over weight it is possible i have slow onset t1,she,s proberbly just being cautious.
I am on 500g metformin and 120 gr gliclazide morning and evening,but on my first meeting with the specialist nurse she said she wouldnt be surprised if i went on insulin, proberbly as my bloods were 26 (475)when i found out i had this.i think i have had it for some time as i was not feeling very good but put it down to hormones stress ect.My dad died 2 yrs ago and i am told the stress could have been the trigger ??

If you have "slow onset t1", surely glicazide is the wrong medication to be on. It will increase your insulin levels in the short term. But it will accelarate the demise of your beta cells.

Mark

[SVanderkolff]

Kimbo
Welcome.
I also am in the same boat as far as age and weight go. I am 46 and my max weight was 215 which at 6' is not exactly overweight. On the other hand my doc figures I should be at 165. ANd on third hand as Harold mentioned I did put on about 20 lbs in the last year.
I imagine your doc got a bit excited with a score of 26, mine got hyper at 19.
I was on the glyburide and the metformin but my stomach just couldn't take the gliburide so we stopped that and increased the metfprmin and that seems to be working.
My diabetes nurse suggested that I only need test once a day but I have found that testing multiple times gives me a much better handle on what is happening in my body and how to conttrol it.
Hope this helps
Steve
Ontario

[arnold84]

While we're playing the questions game.. can someone tell me what a "Bolus" is? I may be going on insulin soon and I've heard this term thrown around a lot.. and I'm just curious as to what it is/means.

[Cinnabon]

Two kinds of insulin used in diabetes treatment are bolus insulin and basal (background) insulin. Bolus insulin supplies a burst of insulin and is usually taken before a meal.

[dbc]

Hi,

It's sounds like you really should get the tests to determine whether you're type 1 or 2. I was diagnosed type 2 a year ago, told to exercise and eat appropriately, which I did, and found it very frustrating that there was no discernible improvement in my bs levels (I'm 53, was not overweight when diagnosed, diagnosis was during a routine med exam, not due to me showing any symptoms of diabetes).

6 months ago I changed Dr, and was diagnosed type 1 on the basis of the antibodies tests. Now at least I know what I'm dealing with and why the exercise/diet thing did not work for me.

Due to the slow onset of the disease I'm not on insulin yet - have recently started on Metformin which is helping my body to use whatever insulin I'm still producing more efficiently - but I know it's just a matter of time before I start insulin therapy, so I' no longer beating myself up over not "getting it right" with exercise/diet!

Knowing where you're at is the best starting point for fighting this thing!

good luck
Dave