Ultimately, you will end up on insulin.

[mg_2204]

... Ever since I got my six-monthly diabetic check last week, something has been on my mind and, quite frankly, bothering me.

I was told that, ultimately, every T2s end up on insulin, sooner or later. I find that a bit discouraging and frustating to be told that when you always try your best and strive for low BG and good A1C. I mean, is this the way to encourage a person and reward someone for all those efforts? It just made me really angry. I wanted to get up and leave the surgery. I should have.

Well there... I said it. Now I feel better :D

Someone I know has been T2 for almost 20 years now. On oral meds, and doing extremely good (A1C 6.1).

Are all T2s bound to be on insulin one day?

[duck]

Who said that?

[Amanda_Jo22]

Wow...I think that is a big misconception by that doc. Many T2's are able to sustain good control by meds alone.

[jdstein11]

Come to the dark side...It is your destiny...

Sorry, folks; weird mood today.

[duck]

Come to the dark side...It is your destiny...

Sorry, folks; weird mood today.

LOL.

mg, I think that statement is waaaaaay off-base. I can understand going on insulin to improve control, but if oral drugs/lifestyle changes keep blood sugars in check, when would the need for insulin arise?

[liz32]

I have friends who are T2 and have come off all meds and now they control solely with diet and excersize. My Nana is 85, has been a diabetic for a very long time (T2) and is only on oral medication. I take insulin but an hoping to be able to go off everything one day if I can get the balance right. I think your doc is just a pessamist (grouch!) and don't take it to heart. Even if he were right...which I doubt, someday they may have a cure, who knows what's around the bend. Always keep hope and keep on working hard at good control: that way you'll be around to say "told ya so". :hypocrite

[Eri's mom]

My dad is a T2...he is on glucaphage, and then takes 30units of lantus at night.
He needs better control...well, he at least needs to lose some weight, then he won't need the lantus, since he had lost the weight b/f and maintaned excellent readings.

[mg_2204]

... It's my diabetic nurse who told me that. It isn't the first time she tells me that. But it really upset me this time. Shall I just give up and jump off a bridge then? Sheesh! I work with elderly people, suffering from different degrees of dementia. I don't tell them they'll end up on a feeding tube...! I encourage them, I praise their efforts. And yes, eventhough the outcome may be grim in some cases, I am and will remain optimistic. You must! Even when they deteriorate, I remain supportive. Not very supportive to be told 'You're doing fine now but eventually you will end up on insulin' isn't it? ... End up. That 'end up' makes the word insulin sound like a death sentence or something. All of you who are on insulin, do you consider yourself on death row? I don't think so! As far as I know, insulin is a way to control BG. As you all know, diabetes is a heavy cross to bear (understatement of the year) and support plays a huge role in how you cope with it. I'm still fuming about the lack of support...!

Ok, vent over :) Thansk!

[duck]

Insulin isn't the end of the world, and as you say it is a method to control blood glucose. But obviously, if I could merely take a pill to control my diabetes, or make lifestyle changes, I would...And the fact that some diabetics can do that is wonderful, and I am suprised your nurse doesn't acknowledge that. But for those of us who are not so fortunate, we press on.

Marie don't let her get you down. I think I am on record with my issues with many healthcare providers around the world...

[Andy_nut]

I am new to being diabetic, but I will fight as long as I can to stay on oral meds as the idea of injecting several times a day scares me a little... no make that a lot.

Having a dr tell you something like that feels like a kick in the teeth. My Dr told me that getting diabetes is just bad luck, then told me I'd be injecting by the end of the year and practically pushed me out of his office. Fingers crossed my clinic might be bit more helpful.

Have any of you guys thought of becoming Drs as your knowledge is better than most and your bedside manner seems much better that any real Drs I come across.

Keep on working hard to keep control, that is my plan, and who knows what will happen. Looking at all the people who use this group there are lots of people who have been T2 for years and still not injecting.

Andy

PS. If this is babble I apologise, feeling a bit low due to a rubbish week in work and hunger. It is hard work changing my diet when food was a major part of my life.

[duck]

I am new to being diabetic, but I will fight as long as I can to stay on oral meds as the idea of injecting several times a day scares me a little... no make that a lot.

Having a dr tell you something like that feels like a kick in the teeth. My Dr told me that getting diabetes is just bad luck, then told me I'd be injecting by the end of the year and practically pushed me out of his office. Fingers crossed my clinic might be bit more helpful.

Have any of you guys thought of becoming Drs as your knowledge is better than most and your bedside manner seems much better that any real Drs I come across.

Keep on working hard to keep control, that is my plan, and who knows what will happen. Looking at all the people who use this group there are lots of people who have been T2 for years and still not injecting.

Andy

PS. If this is babble I apologise, feeling a bit low due to a rubbish week in work and hunger. It is hard work changing my diet when food was a major part of my life.

I need to take a step back from my constant criticism of the medical professionals in our lives--I do believe they are trying the best they can, and that is at times a lot to ask for from any profession. Whether or not it is enough is another issue. I could not be a doctor, I don't have the patience for it. And there are diabetic doctors, I wonder what their take on all this weird advice we get would be???

[liz32]

Oh Marie: don't let her get to you! You are right to keep on giving hope to those you work with and to yourself. I take lantus and don't view it as anything other than wonderful! It is a means to an end. It means I'll end up being able to have tight control on a disease that otherwise would slowely and painfully kill me. Would I like to get off the insulin..you bet! That's my goal and what I'm working towards. Should I never get off it, that's ok too as long as it keeps my sugars under control. I have too much to live for and so do you. Maybe you should ask for a better nurse or at least one with a little more optimisim and better bedside manner! You deserve better, especially if you have to deal with her on a continuing manner. Unless it affects them, I find health care providers can be just a bit on the cold and calculated side. Don't let one ruin your outlook! :thumbsup:

[jdstein11]

Andy, I'm a newly dxd T1 and am on insulin, and have to tell you, other than the pain in the a** that this whole disease is, the shots aren't bad. I'm using a NovoPen 3 my dr gave me and the process is more annoying than the shots are painful, b/w checking my glucose to figuring out what I'm going to eat and what that's going to do to my glucose and then deciding how much insulin to inject. I spend more time figuring all that out than actually giving myself the shot.

[Andy_nut]

I could not be a doctor, I don't have the patience for it.

No pun intended eh? :)

I am not too down on Drs, just mine. I have very littleexperience with them fortunately. They did a greta job looking after my dad when he had a heart attack.

[koblenz]

... I could not be a doctor, I don't have the patience for it.
Oh Duck, you're killin' me! :D Stop it, my side hurts!

[duck]

..and I was trying to be so serious! **** you people!


:D

[BeadieJay]

Hi Marie

I'm sorry you got so upset about hearing that you'll "end up" on insulin, and I'm glad that you're able to vent about it here.

I remember asking my doctor about that when I was newly diagnosed, and he said there was a good possibility that I'd have to use insulin when I was a lot older. I asked him how much older, and he said when I was about 60 - at that point I could happily have hit him, but I think he was joking. :eek: Thing is, he's also told me of patients of his that have controlled their diabetes by diet alone. We're all so different. Some T2's have to use insulin injections from early on in their diagnosis, others never even have to take oral meds. And some of us start out by diet alone, have to progress to oral meds and then have to progress to insulin. It's not clear cut. Nobody knows how things will work out in the future.

I actually appreciated my doctor telling me that I might "end up" on insulin, because then there are no surprises. I don't ever want to use insulin, and I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that won't happen. But if my body has different plans to me, then I just have to accept it. I certainly don't look upon it as a death sentence, but just as another means of controlling this "thing" that I'm stuck with.

I know that you're feeling angry at the way this has been told to you, and I would be too, but we have to face facts that it might happen one day, but hopefully a cure will have been found before that day arrives.

From what I've read from other diabetics in the UK, tact is not a strong point with diabetic nurses.....I think they could all use a lesson from a charm school :whistling

[rzrbks]

mg_2204,

Perhaps this is a form of Negative Reinforcement---some of the Old School Professionals believe more in the negative side rather than the positive side

[duck]

mg_2204,

Perhaps this is a form of Negative Reinforcement---some of the Old School Professionals believe more in the negative side rather than the positive side


...true...or it could be like it is here in states where medical pros give you the absolute worst case scenario, so when you don't have the worst happen, they look like they staved off something bad through the miracles of medicine.

[am1977]

Marie,

I don't understand why doctors do that either :confused: . Yes, I've heard the same thing...that Type 2s will eventually end up on insulin at some point, but I don't think it's a safe prediction to make for everyone. It may be the case for some, especially those who can't seem to gain control with diet and exercise, or even with diet, exercise and meds, but that doesn't mean that it's going to definitely be what happens to you. Try to stay optimistic ;) . And like it was mentioned...even if you do eventually move on to insulin, you might find out that it's not so bad. I think a lot of Type 2s feel like it's this scary, taboo thing, but once they are on it they see how much better they feel and how much better their control is :)

[gettingby]

...true...or it could be like it is here in states where medical pros give you the absolute worst case scenario, so when you don't have the worst happen, they look like they staved off something bad through the miracles of medicine.
...too true, Duck..... It's like it was something they did to make your #'s come down or your A1C's to be good. My CDE understands that my good #'s are a result of my determination, his guidance (and leeway to me), and this group's support and advice that have allowed me to accomplish this. :D

[DeusXM]

As a T1 on insulin, I have to say that your apparent fear or sense of defeat at the prospect of maybe having to go on insulin jars with me slightly. Being on insulin is no more a 'failure' than being on meds. In fact, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that being on insulin is far preferable to having to control your bg through medication, diet, and exercise.

Do you know how amazing it is to be able to eat whatever the **** you want, whenever you want? Insulin is freedom, trust me on this one. If you're a T2 running at a high bg, what are you supposed to do? Go for a marathon? If you're on insulin and running high it's just a case of spiking in a few units and you'll be back to normal in an hour.

I don't see in the slightest why someone with T2 would 'have' to go onto insulin unless something was going particularly wrong, and in any case, going on insulin isn't a problem in the slightest, in terms of control. Ok, yes, I accept that injections aren't everyone's cup of tea but when it's a choice of either losing a leg or putting a tiny, tiny needle in your arm, it's a no-brainer.

I've always held that the hardest part of diabetes is the living with it. Jabs and bg testing are like cleaning your teeth, you just do it and it's no hassle. I always feel sorry for T2s because in my mind you've got the tougher deal, since ultimately meds cannot give you the intensity of control that I enjoy and would only swap for a new pancreas.

[duck]

As a T1 on insulin, I have to say that your apparent fear or sense of defeat at the prospect of maybe having to go on insulin jars with me slightly. Being on insulin is no more a 'failure' than being on meds. In fact, I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that being on insulin is far preferable to having to control your bg through medication, diet, and exercise.

Do you know how amazing it is to be able to eat whatever the **** you want, whenever you want? Insulin is freedom, trust me on this one. If you're a T2 running at a high bg, what are you supposed to do? Go for a marathon? If you're on insulin and running high it's just a case of spiking in a few units and you'll be back to normal in an hour.

I don't see in the slightest why someone with T2 would 'have' to go onto insulin unless something was going particularly wrong, and in any case, going on insulin isn't a problem in the slightest, in terms of control. Ok, yes, I accept that injections aren't everyone's cup of tea but when it's a choice of either losing a leg or putting a tiny, tiny needle in your arm, it's a no-brainer.

I've always held that the hardest part of diabetes is the living with it. Jabs and bg testing are like cleaning your teeth, you just do it and it's no hassle. I always feel sorry for T2s because in my mind you've got the tougher deal, since ultimately meds cannot give you the intensity of control that I enjoy and would only swap for a new pancreas.

Whereas I agree with your sentiments on the need for insulin, if an otherwise perfectly in-control T2 came in would you tell them they will one day need insulin? I know insulin isn't a death sentence, but to tell someone who is doing well on their current non-insulin regimen that one day they will need it seems a bit over-the-top to me.

[mg_2204]

I have to say that your apparent fear or sense of defeat at the prospect of maybe having to go on insulin jars with me slightly.

It's not fear or sense of defeat. I have used insulin during my last pregnancy. I know what it's like to be on insulin. In many cases, and definately in your case, it's a life saving method to control BG. If I was told one morning a need a pacemaker, well crack on, because I do want to live. If I have to be on insulin at one point, fine with me. There is no cure to this disease. I will not get better or mysteriously heal, I know that perfectly well. The disease progresses. It may suddenly progress quickly, eventhough I take good care of myself. That's the way it is. Often the disease (like any other disease) doesn't follow logic. But since I'm doing so well, and working extremely hard and not only on BG control but on my cholesterol level, and to decrease slightly my blood pressure... a little support, a little optimism would be much appreciated. I'm convinced they would help me in my quest to a better control... of everything. I get support from this wonderful forum. That's about it at the moment.

[HypnoToad]

you need a new nurse, what a complete load, i know tons of people that were on oral meds or just controled with diet for all their lives and they were fine

[liz32]

We need to realize that some of us T2's actually chose insulin as a therapy. I made the decision to go on lantus. My CDE mentioned it as an option and for me, the thaught of having to take handfuls of pills (they wanted me on about 5) is terrorizing! I have two wonderful kids because I couldn't remember to take one little blue pill :stupid: . I'd rather stick a needle in myself than take pills: for others obviously they'd rather do pills. I'm just glad we all have a choice and it's not one size fits all. Marie do what is best for you and tell the nurse to go pound sand! It's your life and your body..you know what is best. As for encouragement...keep coming here and get you fill! :thumbsup:

[Middle Aged Man]

My doc told me to attend a very intensive class (4 days, 4 hours each) on diabetes. Nurses and dieticians who work with diabetes all the time teach it. I loved the way they answered your question.

Whenever you get diabetes, you can't cure it. If you manage it, then you prevent it from getting worse. You can never go backwards, but you don't need to ever go forwards.

Taking that against what you were told, your nurse was wrong.

[Dode]

Good morning all, I have been wondering about Drs. and some of their ideas as well. Over the last week I have been dealing with my dr. to get started on insulin and I think that he feels very uncomfortable with insulin. I get that feeling from him and I'm wondering if it could be that maybe he doesn't deal with it all that much. I know they do not get that much training in these lines and maybe they really don't know enough about our problems to be on the positive side. I too have been very upset with drs. and I am sure will be in the future, but for now, with this one anyway, I think I am going to try to help him learn with what I know and see what happens. As far as being on insulin -- I'm glad I am finally on it. It is starting to help me control better, and that is what it is all about. I don't find it a death sentence at all, in fact I look on it as a life sentence--- a life that I can go on living with the insulins help. I know that I am already starting to feel better that I have for years. There is a long way to go yet but one day at a time I know I'll make it. There are days that I am feeling low and feel that I want to give up but I think that is the time I will have to sit back and count my blessings --like never having an ulcer from the diabetes, and my eyes are still good.
I am so glad that we have this site because everyone knows where everyone else is coming from and we can offer support in all kinds of ways. It is so nice to be able to vent and not have someone tell you to shut up because they don't have a clue what's going on. :thumbsup:

[mg_2204]

... I think many in the medical profession (still) see insulin as something bad, something you don't want to have to resort to. Well that's the feeling I had when the diabetic nurse talked to me the other day.

[Harold]

I think many in the medical profession see insulin as something to motivate people with, like it's a bad thing, which it's not it is just one of many tools. To equate fear in relationship to a tool to control is wrong in that many will try to reject that tool when it's the best option. Fear should be limited to the complications and not the tools we use to control our problem.

[mg_2204]

Amen to that Harold!

[pbmax]

Ain't cha just cwayzy about these folk.... :D I whish i had more time for this site...

I was diag. just back on March 7th 2005 (34 till jul. 14th) as a TOO... The INDO put me on shots and told me upfront, eat right, take yer' meds and if you'r a good boy... You should be able to put down the needle... Well 3 weeks ago this Sat. I put away the needle and the highest so far has been 137mg/dl. Even when I cheated, at the weding a coulple weeks back and had small bit of grooms cake... So far It's hovering between 98mg and 109mg.

I always check before I leave in the morning and a couple hrs after supper. Plus the occasional random after noon or 2 am check (NIGHT OWL). Just for peace of mine.

Now I was on shots because they day I was in the emergency room I had a BS of 1,350mg and A1C of 14.7 so once they new my problem it took me a few days to come down and man what a feeling..! Now that I think about it. Just like the Doc said "be good and you be suprised." As a matter of fact he even said 8 - 12 weeks and I most likely would be shot free...

Only thing I realy miss is DP.... :D Diet just ain't the same.... Though the new Zero is pretty good... :-

Like many have said. don't let one pesky downer bum ya out...

[SplitbackVeer]

MG 2204 and Andy nut---------I wish you both the best of luck. You have made me see American Doctors in a whole new light, and I will never badmouth them again.