Neuropathy

[Middle Aged Man]

Haven't learned about this in class yet. What happens? How does it happen? Does it start in one area more than others? Is this what usually happens in the feet? Anyone here have it? How do you know, what do you do, and how did it start?

[Jayo]

From my understanding...uncontrolled blood sugars over a period of time(usually at least 4 to 5 years) damages nerves and circulation.You can experience it in different areas most common though are the eyes, feet and stomach.Your eyes can get blurry and painful..your feet can get numb...and your digestion can slow.I personally know many diabetics who experience minor neuropathy (eyes are ocassionally blurry and hurt)...but with controlled blood sugars you should be able to avoid it or atleast delay it for some time....

[Middle Aged Man]

From my understanding...uncontrolled blood sugars over a period of time(usually at least 4 to 5 years) damages nerves and circulation.You can experience it in different areas most common though are the eyes, feet and stomach.Your eyes can get blurry and painful..your feet can get numb...and your digestion can slow.I personally know many diabetics who experience minor neuropathy (eyes are ocassionally blurry and hurt)...but with controlled blood sugars you should be able to avoid it or atleast delay it for some time....


Thanks. I've been having some odd numbness/tingling in my feet, so I've been wondering, but I've only been type II about a year and my sugars have never even hit 300. Like you, though, I never have a low. All time lowest reading I got was 95, and only once.

[archimeech]

MAM,
wow! not that's a funny abbreviated form of your screen name. Let's jsut call you T2.
Even though you have been diagnosed for only a short while, your body has been slowly bringing you to the point where your symptoms were great enough for the diagnosis. Unfortunately in T2 diabetes, a lot of the damage is all ready done before you ever know that you're diabetic. even a small rise in blood sugars of a lng period of time can do damage. Also, all diabetics are different. I met a 50+ woman who has been diabetic for almost 40 years. Never had any problems, never had 1 high A1c, she's inperfect health except for having to take insulin. Others have symptoms from the very beginning, and have horrible problems with eyes, kidneys, neuropathy, you name it.
Jayo is correct, the better you keep your sugars the better you will be for longer; at least in theory. Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you yet, but when you finally get yourself under control from a long periodof high sugars, you will have a lot more symptoms until you body can re-adjust. You get worse before you get better, kinda like DTs for drunks! :)

[Middle Aged Man]

Meech - Thanks for the great reply. BTW, I answered your question about Savannah and DoD in your other thread. Hope you get to it.

One more question . . . what's a "high sugar"? Above 100? 150? 160? 500? What is considered the danger zone?

[jdstein11]

This isn't quite off-topic, but you mentioned what damage may result from "uncontrolled high sugars"; what are the potential effects of low sugars? I gow low just about each day, ironically right about 9:30 in the AM (not too far from now) when my breakfast wears off (I normally eat at either 5:30 or 6:30, depending in which office I'm working that day). By low, I mean I've had a few readings in the 30s, but most low readings average in the 50s.

Are there any damaging effects from 'going low'?

[archimeech]

Meech - Thanks for the great reply. BTW, I answered your question about Savannah and DoD in your other thread. Hope you get to it.

One more question . . . what's a "high sugar"? Above 100? 150? 160? 500? What is considered the danger zone?

the books say over 120 is high. the average range for a fasting sugar should be between 80-120, rising up to about as high as 180 1-2 hours after a meal.

[archimeech]

The danger zone is elevated sugars for extended periods of time. 180+

There is all kinds of research I have read that tries to explain the reasons why. The short of it is the body does self damage, kinda like burning too rich of a fuel in an engine for too long.

[archimeech]

Meech - Thanks for the great reply. BTW, I answered your question about Savannah and DoD in your other thread. Hope you get to it.



I did read it, thank you. I sent you a PM furthering the discussion.

[Middle Aged Man]

I did read it, thank you. I sent you a PM furthering the discussion.

Thanks for the great inputs.

BTW, I did not get any PM from you. Please recheck the address. Thanks.

[jdstein11]

Guys, to repeat my previous question, do you know of any evidence of damage from going low too often?

[Middle Aged Man]

Guys, to repeat my previous question, do you know of any evidence of damage from going low too often?


I'm not aware of any, but I never go low. From what I understand, unconsciousness is your main risk.

Here is a great site for information on the effects, but it doesn't show any lasting effects:

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/hypoglycemia/

[archimeech]

I think that the innability to react and going into a hypoglicemic coma are the worst downsides of low blood sugar. Even though you're starving your body and brain, going high for long periods of time has a much more devastating effect.

[duck]

Guys, to repeat my previous question, do you know of any evidence of damage from going low too often?

Brain damage...glucose is the only fuel your brain uses.

[arlenecarol]

the books say over 120 is high. the average range for a fasting sugar should be between 80-120, rising up to about as high as 180 1-2 hours after a meal.

wait a minute!!

are you telling me that my reading of 182 this morning wasn't TERRIBLE???
my first test of the day (fasting) was 118... it spiked to 182 after eating and then +2 hours after lunch it was 116...

is this good? gee, if it is, then i was upset for nothing!!!



arlene

[jdstein11]

Dain bramage, u say? Low fuel is better than no fuel I suppose, although I am working on identifying why I have lows. I don't really feel horrible, just a little weak and shaky. Glucose tabs or other quick fix carbs usually take care of in w/in 10 minutes.

As far as brain cells, sure alcohol kills brain cells; but only the WEAK ones! ;)

[CarlyElise]

Haven't learned about this in class yet. What happens? How does it happen? Does it start in one area more than others? Is this what usually happens in the feet? Anyone here have it? How do you know, what do you do, and how did it start?
As far as neuropathy goes, I speak from my experience. I woke one moning and could not feel my left foot or anything from the knee down. I thought it just "fell asleep." I kept trying to walk it off, but each time I stood up, I fell and fell hard. So, I thought I broke it from falling. My husband to me to the emergency room and they wanted to amputate becase my foot just dangled perfectly straight down and I couldn't move it at all, no reflexes, nothing, I said no way! It took a ton of hard work and pain, but I do walk even though I don't feel most of my leg and foot. Prior to that event, I used to wake in the middle of the night with severe pain in the heels and bottoms of my feet, if I knew what to look for, i.e., the burning, I could have avoided the nueropathy. I have to take very strong pain meds to be able to walk, but the point is; I beat this thing, I had to retrain my brain. I don't get the 400 readings that a lot of people get, I just have a steady 160-250. That may be why they had a hard time catching it, who knows?
Carly

[Middle Aged Man]

Prior to that event, I used to wake in the middle of the night with severe pain in the heels and bottoms of my feet, if I knew what to look for, i.e., the burning, I could have avoided the nueropathy.


Can you explain what to look for a bit better? Burning?????????

[lambchop]

Arlene:

You are right on with your numbers - the 180 is not so bad just after eating - as long as you go back to the low range within 2 hours you are fine. 118 in the morning is great and 116 2 hours after eating is almost perfect.

I think you are doing fine.

[arlenecarol]

Arlene:

You are right on with your numbers - the 180 is not so bad just after eating - as long as you go back to the low range within 2 hours you are fine. 118 in the morning is great and 116 2 hours after eating is almost perfect.

I think you are doing fine.


OH THANK YOU!! it's really great to get this validation. I'm relieved and hope that if i maintain these levels that i can avoid insulin when i go back to the doctor's in 3 months!

there's no telling how long i've had this illness, but i'm pretty sure it didn't happen 'yesterday'....i'm hoping that if i can stay 'normal' (since when was i 'normal' :oi ) i will be able to avoid any 'damage'...at the moment, i think i've been very lucky, given the fact that my sugar levels were in the 300s and low 400s in May. - when i first got my monitor, i thought it wasn't working right...i couldn't understand how come i saw such high readings...
ignorance isn't always 'bliss'!!

thanks again EVERYONE.
Yesterday's readings were really good, even though i had homemade french fries (cooked in olive oil...that's the only oil we use here because it's easily available...i live in the olive producing center of the eastern Mediterranean).

and i think that eating more than 3 times a day is the way we are SUPPOSED to eat.. this 3 meals a day is artificial and the product of the Industrial Age.
Our bodies aren't meant to be regulated by clocks you know!!

:eating:

arlene

[lambchop]

Arlene:

No your problem did not develop overnight - Diabetes works behind the scene for at least 5 to 10 years before you get the symptoms - some catch it early - some late - I had symptoms which sent me to check it out because it is strong in my family line.

You will soon get into a routine where this does not overpower you and control your life - you will control it - it is scary to start with, but once you get it within reason you can relax and go on with your life (but it is never out of your mind completely) and should not be - it is something that requires constant watching.

But fear will eat you alive - my sugars jumped about 40 points this week and I paniced - nothing I did brought it down - my meter was reading 170 fasting - I've never had it that high - I did everything I could possibly do to get it down - went to the doctor for bloodwork - they called me the next day - my sugar was 117 and my A1c was 7.1 - both these are good for a diabetic - what was wrong - my battery in my monitor was going out - so fear took over when it was something I should have paid attention to - I had the monitor for 3 years and never changed the battery.

We get so busy watching the numbers that we forget what makes the numbers tick.

[arlenecarol]

Hi Sharon and everyone --- thanks,
it runs in my family too but for some reason, i thought that maybe it was going to skip my generation! wrong...but i've 'acquired' it rather late so i shouldn't be too unhappy...at least i have been able to find a good doctor over here and we'll get it under control. i survived cancer in '85 so this is just another of life's challenges.

I'm really thankful that you guys set me straight the other day...i did hit a 'downer' when i saw my sugar reach 182 after eating...but then it dropped to 116 later in the day and stayed low. since the realization that it was 'okay'
for b/s to jump after meals even as high as 180ish, i have been okay psychologically for the past few days...and i feel stronger and definitely in control.

last week when i got a reading of 225, i later realized it was most likely caused by something i had on my hands...so now i'm much more careful when testing...always cleaning my hands before drawing blood. so far, so good.

i'll try to remember the bit about the battery...thanks for that...

thanks again..all of you. boy, am i glad i found this forum!!

arlene

[CarlyElise]

Can you explain what to look for a bit better? Burning?????????
I would be woken in the middle of the night with this very painful buring sensation. By burning I mean, imagine getting "rug burn" and multiply that by 200. I would wake crying because it hurt so much and I couldn't stop the pain, no matter what I did. But, rug burn is the best way I can think of to describe it. Prior to the nueropathy, besides the pain, I was just extremely tired all the time, nobody could wake me up. For example, one night my husband had gotten really concerned about me because I was slurring my words, very off balance and talking "jibberish", then I fell asleep at the kitchen table, my husband even has a picture because he knew I wouldn't remember anything and he wanted to prove a point with the Doctors. The next thing I knew, I woke up in the Critical Care unit of the hospital the following day. I was in such a deep sleep, they couldn't wake me up. They obviously thought I took some kind of drug. When my test results came back, the determined it to be a "diabetic coma" it was a mild one. They treated my diabetes and I was home in two days. Watch for unusual behavior and blackout periods. I hope that helps. I'll try to think of some other signs that may have led up to that day.
Sincerely,
Carly :shakehand

[arlenecarol]

good grief Carly...good thing you weren't driving when this happened!!

hope you never experience that again.

last summer, on two separate occasions, i had that kind of pain in my left arm. it lasted for about 5-6 hours...and it was horrible pain. i took some naproxsin and went to sleep for the rest of the day. then it was gone...only returned once again in the other arm, months later. so far...no repeats. i don't know if it was related to diabetes because i didn't know i was a diabetic at that time so it never occurred to me to get it checked. still not sure that's what it was...but now that i'm reasonably under control, i am hoping it will never ever happen again.

it's not a nice pain at all...

good luck to you...stay well.

arlene

[Middle Aged Man]

I would be woken in the middle of the night with this very painful buring sensation. By burning I mean, imagine getting "rug burn" and multiply that by 200. I would wake crying because it hurt so much and I couldn't stop the pain, no matter what I did. But, rug burn is the best way I can think of to describe it. Prior to the nueropathy, besides the pain, I was just extremely tired all the time, nobody could wake me up. For example, one night my husband had gotten really concerned about me because I was slurring my words, very off balance and talking "jibberish", then I fell asleep at the kitchen table, my husband even has a picture because he knew I wouldn't remember anything and he wanted to prove a point with the Doctors. The next thing I knew, I woke up in the Critical Care unit of the hospital the following day. I was in such a deep sleep, they couldn't wake me up. They obviously thought I took some kind of drug. When my test results came back, the determined it to be a "diabetic coma" it was a mild one. They treated my diabetes and I was home in two days. Watch for unusual behavior and blackout periods. I hope that helps. I'll try to think of some other signs that may have led up to that day.
Sincerely,
Carly :shakehand


Wow. That's all scary stuff. I'm sure glad you came through it.

Was the burning all through your body, or just in your legs?

Do you know how high you sugars went?

I'm so glad you're still with us!

[Firstborn]

I've been taking pain meds for two months now, finally got a doctor to give me some. Three years ago my feet started to burn. I thought it was a pair of shoes I bought. So I tossed them out and kept buying shoes that maybe would not make my feet burn. It only got worse, I did ask my dippy doctor why my feet would burn, apparently he didn't have the time three years ago to check it out. Then my feet went somewhat numb. It felt like I was walking on an inch of carpet when there was none, yet any little thing that touched my bare feet, made it feel like electricty was running in my feet. Its still that way to this day, except that it has moved up to my knees now. HAD the doctor checked it out then I may not have lost so much in the nerve area. So I'm on a light pain pill tylenol 3's twice a day, that helps me cope with it. Plus I take amitripoline at night before bed. It has helped. It was only THIS week that I found out I had Diabetes.

[deercotn]

Down to 118 2 hrs after a meal is darn good!!

[EdnBama]

Also, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this to you yet, but when you finally get yourself under control from a long periodof high sugars, you will have a lot more symptoms until you body can re-adjust. You get worse before you get better, kinda like DTs for drunks! :)

One thing I noticed when I started taking meds and getting my bg under control was the change in my vision. For a short period during this time, my close-up vision changed, for example, when reading a book. I had to adjust how I held reading material. It finally went back to the way it had been after a month or so.

[EdnBama]

The danger zone is elevated sugars for extended periods of time. 180+

There is all kinds of research I have read that tries to explain the reasons why. The short of it is the body does self damage, kinda like burning too rich of a fuel in an engine for too long.

That's interesting. My doc told me that bg readings consistently over 140 for long periods of time are the problem.

He had also advised that bg readings 2 hours aftera meal should be between 120 and 140.

[EdnBama]

I've been taking pain meds for two months now, finally got a doctor to give me some. Three years ago my feet started to burn. I thought it was a pair of shoes I bought. So I tossed them out and kept buying shoes that maybe would not make my feet burn. It only got worse, I did ask my dippy doctor why my feet would burn, apparently he didn't have the time three years ago to check it out. Then my feet went somewhat numb. It felt like I was walking on an inch of carpet when there was none, yet any little thing that touched my bare feet, made it feel like electricty was running in my feet. Its still that way to this day, except that it has moved up to my knees now. HAD the doctor checked it out then I may not have lost so much in the nerve area. So I'm on a light pain pill tylenol 3's twice a day, that helps me cope with it. Plus I take amitripoline at night before bed. It has helped. It was only THIS week that I found out I had Diabetes.

The aunt of a friend of mine had bad neuropathy in her legs. At times, the lady could not have even something as light as a sheet touching her for the pain it caused.

Unfortunately, she had been diagnosed diabetic for a long time but didn't manage the condition well. :frown:

[EdnBama]

Guys, to repeat my previous question, do you know of any evidence of damage from going low too often?

After seeing my grandfather (type 1) go through diabetic shock once, I think I would be more concerned with going low at all rather than figuring out the effects from going low too often.

All it takes is one low that is too low to put your life in immediate danger.

What strategy have you developed to address the lows like the one you described?

[archimeech]

That's interesting. My doc told me that bg readings consistently over 140 for long periods of time are the problem.

He had also advised that bg readings 2 hours aftera meal should be between 120 and 140.

Exactly my point. You're sugars are too high for too long of a period and you can do damage to your body.

[Middle Aged Man]

That's interesting. My doc told me that bg readings consistently over 140 for long periods of time are the problem.

He had also advised that bg readings 2 hours aftera meal should be between 120 and 140.

My diabetes class is saying that we should have readings of 70-140 in the morning and before the main meal, and under 160 two hours after the meal. They then ask us to count how many readings were above threshold. If more than 50% are out of line, then they say we have a control problem.

I'm seeing my doc again shortly. My average on waking is 158, before the main meal is 136, and two hours after is 177. Those are the time points the class tells us to check.

[siouxdax]

I've had similar statements from doctors. And if you ask me, they just throw out numbers as though we're able to achieve them. Personally, I'm type two, non-insulin dependent, but have been on glipizide for a couple/few weeks, which barely helps. The ONLY time my BG is normal is when I wake up. The rest of the day it's an uphill battle.

What drew me to this post was the word neuropathy, of which I've had the seeds for a few weeks. The doctor just says it's part of the process, and will come and go.

Honestly, I think that since diabetes is as common as the flu (being sarcastic), doctors don't want to put much effort into it. "Take two aspirin and call me in the morning" seems their newest credo in regards to diabetes, while secretly they pray for a cure to reduce their patient load.

My apologies for such a scattered post, but I just got on a roll there... :)

[Middle Aged Man]

Siouxdax, that runs contrary to what I'm learning. The class is teaching us that diabetes is controllable. It can never go backwards in intensity (you can't undo anything) but you can prevent it from going forwards for as long as you control it.

I've never had a low. I'm type II on Actos and Metformin. My all time low is 102, and all time high is 332. Getting ready to see the doc again for another A1C. I don't know how that compares to you, but I understand that each time I go above the limits, I do a little more damage. Controlling the disease is what will prevent the other nasty things from happening. Sounds like you might want to find another doc.

[siouxdax]

Siouxdax, that runs contrary to what I'm learning. The class is teaching us that diabetes is controllable. It can never go backwards in intensity (you can't undo anything) but you can prevent it from going forwards for as long as you control it.

I've never had a low. I'm type II on Actos and Metformin. My all time low is 102, and all time high is 332. Getting ready to see the doc again for another A1C. I don't know how that compares to you, but I understand that each time I go above the limits, I do a little more damage. Controlling the disease is what will prevent the other nasty things from happening. Sounds like you might want to find another doc.

I think that perhaps my situation is complicated because I also have Addisons disease, which creates scads of secondary problems, diabetes being one of them due to the fact I have to be on loads of hydrocortisone for the rest of my life.

[Middle Aged Man]

I think that perhaps my situation is complicated because I also have Addisons disease, which creates scads of secondary problems, diabetes being one of them due to the fact I have to be on loads of hydrocortisone for the rest of my life.

It's interesting how very many of us seem to have diabetes comorbid with another condition.