T2 59 Year Old Male...Have You Been Here?

[pappy]

~At 59 I am 13 years into type 2 (family history of Diabetes also).
~Up to age 35 I was 6', 190, bullet proof (and sometimes invisible)
~From 35 to 45 I slowly went from 190 to 220 but still felt great every morning and could eat or drink anything I wanted without regret.
~At 46 I was diagnosed mild T2...
~46-50 controlled with diet and minimal Glyburide
~50-59 went from 220 to 240 and slowly had to increase Glyburide to max...added Actos and Glucophage at 55
~Doc just last 3 weeks converted me to Insulin and I am having trouble as follows:
~Directions said to start with 10 units Lantus at bedtime and the Sliding scale for Humulin R said before meals 120-150 take 2 units, 150-175, 4 units, 175-200, 6 units, 200-225, 8 units and so on, and for bedtime no Humulin unless above 200.
~I started at these suggested amounts and have yet to get my levels below 170 fasting in the morning and usually I am 180-190 at that time. I eat an English Muffin and an Egg at 8am, and pre-lunch number is still 185. I am up to 20 units Lantus at night and have less control now than I did with the Glyburide. My highs 2 hrs post meals have been 240-260.

Should I keep going up in dose of Lantus, or should I take more than the suggested sliding scale of Humulin R?

Any old fat bald guys been this route that can tell me what to expect?

[duck]

Young(er), shaved-headed-but-losing-hair Type-1 here: Are you still on any oral meds?

Chances are, you need to increase the fast-acting (Humulin) insulin. Here's a scenario for you: If you woke up, and your blood sugars were "X", and you skipped breakfast and ate nothing, what would you blood sugars be in two and four hours? If the readings are higher, you need more lantus. If lower, less. If stable, then you are not taking enough insulin to cover your meals (ie, not taking enough Humulin).

The above scenario is pretty rudimentary, but it should give us the detail we need to make suggestions to take to your doc.

[pappy]

Thanks Duck,
I am still on the Glucophage and Actos...I just changed the Glyburide for Insulin.
I have not had a morning without breakfast...I will do that in the morning.

I of course plan to go back to the Doc, but he said 2 months on insulin before that. I guess I was expecting miracles with insulin, but so far it doesn't seem to make much difference between the 10 units and 20 units Lantus.

Before going on insulin I had been on a much lower Carb intake with about 30 to 40 g a day. The nutritionist told me to take that much per meal, and I am finding that hard to take. I had gotten used to no bread or potatos at all. I did try one lunch last Saturday at home that was all protien (eggs and meat) and 2 hrs later I was the lowest I have been on insulin at 146.

I know my exercise is lacking. I am at a computer about 6 hrs a day and out in the shop (machine shop) walking/standing for about 2 hrs.

I have my order in for a time machine, but just in case that falls through, I guess I better go walking more.

Thanks again

[duck]

Was the nutritionist a "Registered Dietitian"? 30-40 grams a meal is kinda high IMHO, I don't eat that much carb daily.

Take this with a grain of salt, since I am not a doctor, but if you had something that worked for you, continue to do it. If the low-carb diet kept your sugars in better control than the current carb-lovers diet, use the low-carb (assuming it didn't hose your cholesterol or triglycerides, etc.)

Also, when you skip your meal, I would test hourly...Test when you awake, test an hour later, and each hour thereafter for at least four hours, and try to hold off on eating anything caloric while you are "fasting". This should give some insights into how well your Lantus is working for you.

Good luck, when the time machine comes in, let us know what model and the price.

[TvBabe]

Pappy what type of doctor is following your diabetes?

I am concerned about your blood sugar levels...180-190...the American Diabetes Association states quite clearly on their website that levels of 180 or higher does physical damage to the body. I can only imagine what your a1c levels might be!?!?

I hope you are seeing an endo since my first impression here is your doctor doesn't seem to clear on how to "manage" diabetes. If you are not seeing an endo I suggest you see one.....soon.

[pappy]

TVBabe,
My Doc is my general MD type of guy. In his defense, he did send me to the hospital-run diabetes introduction level program where they told me some general starting levels (the 10 units Lantus and the sliding scale for the Humulin). I am only 2 weeks into that now. I also have not gone back to the outpatient program for a more detailed class...the carb count was from the nutritionist when she was setting me up for the program.
I have not had an Endo guy since the last two I had must have been royalty or dieties...or so it seemed the way they made you wait to see them for up to 2 hrs past appt. time. I am saving all my patience for later in life, so I did not waste any on them.
The 180 concerns me also...that is why I am on this forum for the first time. I certainly plan to seek professional advice, but wanted to hear some first hand stories from individuals here that may have gone through situations similar to mine.

The carb advice from Duck may be good. I left out blatant carbs at lunch at 12:30 and now at 2:20 I am down to 184. I must admit I have been really enjoying the beans, rice, and non-green veggies that I have not had for some time.

Just having other forum members respond is reassuring, and that may be what I am seeking most of all.

Thanks again for your concern.

[duck]

I forgot to add (and I am sorry to be dominating this thread so far) that the "sliding scale" is archaic, in my opinion. Learn to "carb-count", it will make managing this daggone disease easier on you...Sliding scale is reactive whereas carb-counting is proactive.

[TvBabe]

TVBabe,
My Doc is my general MD type of guy. In his defense, he did send me to the hospital-run diabetes introduction level program where they told me some general starting levels (the 10 units Lantus and the sliding scale for the Humulin). I am only 2 weeks into that now. I also have not gone back to the outpatient program for a more detailed class...the carb count was from the nutritionist when she was setting me up for the program.
I have not had an Endo guy since the last two I had must have been royalty or dieties...or so it seemed the way they made you wait to see them for up to 2 hrs past appt. time. I am saving all my patience for later in life, so I did not waste any on them.
The 180 concerns me also...that is why I am on this forum for the first time. I certainly plan to seek professional advice, but wanted to hear some first hand stories from individuals here that may have gone through situations similar to mine.

The carb advice from Duck may be good. I left out blatant carbs at lunch at 12:30 and now at 2:20 I am down to 184. I must admit I have been really enjoying the beans, rice, and non-green veggies that I have not had for some time.

Just having other forum members respond is reassuring, and that may be what I am seeking most of all.

Thanks again for your concern.

Pappy I've walked a mile in your shoes :) I am a type 2 on HumalinR and Lantus myself, the orals really didn't do a whole lot for me :(

When I first saw my dietician she gave me guidelines to follow as far as carbs per meal. Since my hubby was joining me on the diabetic diet (what a sweetheart) she gave him the adult male values and they were 60-90 per meal, 20-30 carbs per snack (that's the male values). Now mine were 45-60 carbs per meal and 20-30 carbs per snack. I find that if I eat that much I usually run into problems so I use the lower values and it works out pretty good. I find I can eat pretty ok meals/foods with an occasional "treat" from time to time with these guidelines.

I take 4 units of HumalinR per meal (if I am having a light lunch I only do 2-3 units), no insulin for snacks and 14 units of Lantus at 11pm each night (total four injections per day). I also exercise every day doing a 3-5 mile walk each day and my a1c is 5.6 (up slightly from my previous 5.1) Sometimes if my blood sugars are a little high before dinner I might do an extra unit of HumalinR.

It sounds to me as if the insulin amounts they have you on aren't covering your management, it's time to contact them via phone or get back in there so they can review the situation and make some adjustments. :)

[pappy]

TvBabe,
I know it is only one meal, but pre-lunch today I was around 180 and decided to reduce lunch carbs, so I left out the bread and taters that would have made up about 30 g carbs. I ended up having about 2 chicken portions baked with parmesian plus corn and carrots (that I usually didn't have whyen on pills.

Well the difference was immediate because by pre dinner I was at 116 and got excited about this insulin deal for the first time in 2 weeks. I had Chinese for dinner and hope to get another good reading in a couple of hours. This is my first meal that I didn't have to take Humulin before eating.

Thanks again for your support.

[duck]

TvBabe,
I know it is only one meal, but pre-lunch today I was around 180 and decided to reduce lunch carbs, so I left out the bread and taters that would have made up about 30 g carbs. I ended up having about 2 chicken portions baked with parmesian plus corn and carrots (that I usually didn't have whyen on pills.

Well the difference was immediate because by pre dinner I was at 116 and got excited about this insulin deal for the first time in 2 weeks. I had Chinese for dinner and hope to get another good reading in a couple of hours. This is my first meal that I didn't have to take Humulin before eating.

Thanks again for your support.

I hope you're different, but Chinese food messes the duck up...I have to add lots and lots of insulin to my regimen to stay normal. Keep us posted.

[TvBabe]

Well the difference was immediate because by pre dinner I was at 116 and got excited about this insulin deal for the first time in 2 weeks. I had Chinese for dinner and hope to get another good reading in a couple of hours. This is my first meal that I didn't have to take Humulin before eating.

Thanks again for your support.

Your brave! I haven't even attempted Chinese food yet! :)

[pappy]

Well, Chinese food is obviously not the way to go (at least a full order). I am 190 more than 2hrs past, but I should have taken some Humulin even if I was 116 because of what I was about to eat. I am still excited about going lower carbs.

Jeez, I feel so weak of will sometimes when it comes to this food deal. It has become my only vise.

[ADE]

Hi Pappy,
I'm quite concern about your glucose level. When I was diagnosed last year in February, I immediately cut the bread, potato, pasta, noodle, rice, and most fruits except all the berries. I, also, started going to the gymn twice a day. I would do 1/2 hour cardio and the other 1/2 hour weight lifting (anarobic style). Once I stabilize my glucose level, I started taking 1 table spoon apple cider vinegar prior to each meal. I also like my morning coffee, but instead of cream and sugar, I used 1 teaspoon of cinamon powder. I believe the low carb diet and the heavy exercise has improved greatly on the way I control my glucose level. When I started this heavy regiment, I would test my glucose level up to 10 times a day. Take care and I hope that you will gain control from this god#@?! disease.

[pappy]

ADE,
In 1992 when I was first diagnosed at age 46, I was much more active than I am at 59, and I too got great results from going on the recommended diet. It was amazing what taking Chicken Fried Steaks and beer out of my diet did. I went from 220 to 180 in 3 months and got by with just one Glyburide and nothing else.

That was then and this is now, and I don't think vinegar and cinnamin are going to do me much good except maybe make for some interesting gas expulsions.

Seriously, thanks for your response and concern. I am 158 pre-lunch today after taking the bread out of my breakfast this morning. My heavy workout days are pretty much a thing of the past. I have too many damaged skelatal components to do that anymore.

I think the main problem is that at an early age I really did not plan on living this long.

[Andy_nut]

Ade

What is the main part of your meals if you have no carbs at all?

I am new to this and am T2, but I was told that these types of food, in moderation, were the best thing for me to eat at meal

Andy

[ADE]

Hi Andy,
Here are my main type of food:

Breakfast - 1/2 cup of cottage cheese mixed with flaxseed oil, 1/2 cup of broccoli, 1 boil egg, 1 cup of coffee with 1 teaspoon of cinamon.

Lunch - a big bowl of salad with boca burger/vegetarian sausage and 2 spoon of ranch dressing.

Dinner - any vegetables (bak choy, beansprout, celery, spinach) stir fry with olive oil and fried tofu/egg.

I've been eating like this for the last 18 months since diagnose. Take care yourself.

[mg_2204]

Ade, after 18 months... aren't you a bit tired of the same ol' thing to eat??! I ask because I like variety and it would be hard for me to stick to your diet.

[ADE]

Well Marie, so far I'm still enjoying this new lifestyle and diet. I do like the result of that diet to my glucose level and my cholesterol. Besides that strick diet, I also exercise everyday. That diet has pushed me to become more vegetarian. Since the diagnose 18 months ago, I've been managing my glucose with diet and exercise without any medication.

[arlenecarol]

I wish I could be more helpful about all this but I'm newly diagnosed as well..
I think we knew something was wrong just before Mother's Day this year.. but it wasn't official until June. Anyway, from highs in the low 400s, for the moment, I've got things under control. Fasting levels are under 120 in the morning and during the day it sometimes jumps to 180 but not always. I stopped eating my high-carb diet. I LOVE carbs - mostly potatoes, rice and delicious homemade bread...but I had to make a choice...live without those things or die earlier than expected (i have this idea that i want to live to be 83, with conditions...).

I don't have coffee everyday but when i do, i use cinnamon power. i've learned to drink sun tea (blackberry) without sugar... two weeks ago when i had this 'hypo' feeling, i took a sip of regular Coke and was amazed at how different it tasted..and i didn't like it all that much that time.

I see in this thread that some of you are troubled by Chinese food. Well, yesterday, i made a stirfry Thai dish and didn't have any trouble.

I hope that this control I have over my disease continues because I seem to have improved faster than I suspected I would.

Pappy, I hope you can find your own way through this illness - because it seems to me that each of us has to search to find what works. I see that there's no one path. keep trying different things. don't discount the vinegar or the cinnamon...you just never know...

GOOD LUCK!!

arlene

[Godisgood]

i AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE VINEGAR THING, BUT DIDN'T SEEM TO DO ANYTHING FOR ME. WHAT HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED FROM THE VINEGAR?

[pappy]

ADE,
What part of California are you from?
Should I express my diabetes through a spiritual forum? Visa Versa?
I wonder if diabetes is older than christianity?
Will sour old men ever become popular?
I am being mean, sorry.

[arlenecarol]

ADE,
What part of California are you from?
Should I express my diabetes through a spiritual forum? Visa Versa?
I wonder if diabetes is older than christianity?
Will sour old men ever become popular?
I am being mean, sorry.


Interesting question...however, i don't often date illnesses from
the beginnings of any certain religion. why just limit it to the last 2000
years? and how would we know if diabetes existed earlier anyway?

however, i'll bet it did. does anyone know the 'history' of the disease?

and it's not just 'sour old men' ... old women get sour too ya know! :vroam:

arlene (who is semi-sweet at times)

[ADE]

>ADE,
>What part of California are you from?
>Should I express my diabetes through a spiritual forum? Visa Versa?
>I wonder if diabetes is older than christianity?
>Will sour old men ever become popular?
>I am being mean, sorry.

Hi Pappy,

Sorry for being late replying the mail, I just came back from 1 week vacation with the kids to southern California. I'm from San Francisco. I can not give any comments about religion nor spiritual belief, because my own speritual belief is going through tough beating right now. Being sour could be do to diabetes itself, so watch that nasty glucose level. You don't have to be sorry for being mean, we all have our own moments. Take care.