Just switched from Humalog to Novolog...

[jen_slc]

Today at my check-up, the doc and I discussed fine-tuning my BG control, and one of the problems for me is getting an accurate dose using syringes with all the different ratios I use for meals. So he gave me a freebie sample kit - a Novopen Junior kit for elementary school-age kids, lol. Because these pens are made for kids who typically require smaller doses, they allow you to inject in increments of 0.5 units, so this should help me out quite a bit in injecting a more accurate and precise dose - the next best thing in my world besides a pump. Why can't they make "adult" pens in increments of 0.5 units too? :dontknow: Oh well, I don't mind carrying around a kiddie's pen. It's more colorful anyway.

Anyway, I've only used it twice for meals today and I feel a HUGE difference! It seems much more potent than Humalog. I dropped too low after lunch after taking the same dose I would have with Humalog. And now one hour after dinner, I'm nowhere near the post-meal spike I would normally see with Humalog. It's awesome! Though, I've felt a bit weird all day since lunchtime when I switched, very lightheaded, very doped-up-on-Benadryl kind of feeling, sort of like I'm going low but I'm not, as if I'm about to pass out. :marchmell And I couldn't do anything in my gym class tonight, not even lift a 3lb weight.

Maybe I'm fighting something off, but I wanted to ask...has anybody had any weird reactions to Novolog? For those who have switched from Humalog to Novolog, did you find you had to decrease your dose or anything like that?

[BriOnH]

When I made the same switch I had to give 3/4 of the amount of humalog I was giving. It's supposed to be the exact same protien but it is for sure more potent IMO too. Hope the benadryl like feeling goes soon.

[MarkMunday]

Jen,

I have also switched from Humalog to Novolog. I also did it because Novo makes better pens. But I did it so that I could use the Innovo pen, which has a memory. It tells me when I had my last shot and how many units I injected.

Anyway, I also found that Novolog drops its load more quickly than Humalog. I used to inject Humalog 15 minutes before eating and I inject Novolog immediately before eating. My blood sugar doesn't spike as high an hour after eating. But I am still using the same number of units.

Novolog has never caused any reactions with me. And I suspect that you may have an infection or something. I prefer Novolog to Humalog because its action profile matches my post-meal insulin requirements more closely.

Cheers,

Mark

[DeusXM]

Novolog is not the same protein as humalog. They're two very different types of insulin. Novolog (or Novorapid, as it's known in the UK) has a much more aggressive action profile than Humalog. Therefore you may find you have to reconsider your dosage requirements.

[BriOnH]

Novolog is not the same protein as humalog. They're two very different types of insulin. Novolog (or Novorapid, as it's known in the UK) has a much more aggressive action profile than Humalog. Therefore you may find you have to reconsider your dosage requirements.

They are the exact same protien. They only differ in preservatives and diluents.

http://www.diabetes123.com/dteam/2004-11/d_0d_cke.htm

This is also what my endo told me when switching. Novolog for sure acts quicker and stronger IMO. I'll try and find the pharmacology report that shows all the amino acids in the protien, I never personally have compared the two protiens side by side. Just gone off of what doctors and pharmacists have told me about the two.
-Brian

[am1977]

I'm curious about the Novolog myself :hmmmm:...I know that it peaks a little different than the Humalog and I heard that it lasts a little longer (effective wise) than Humalog as well. Keep us posted on how things go, Jen.

[jen_slc]

I've been looking into Novolog (aspart) and bit more today and technically, it is a different protein from Humalog (lispro). In normal human insulin, amino acids 28 and 29 on the B chain are proline and lysine. In Humalog/lispro, these two positions are inverted so that it becomes lysine-proline. In Novolog/aspart, rather than an inversion of the two amino acids, there is a replacement: the B28-proline is replaced with aspartic acid.

I'm still feeling 'off' today, but I'm suffering from a hypo-hangover. Starting late last night and continuing through the night to this morning, I've been rollercoastering between 50 and 100. :vollkomme My breakfast dose was okay because I usually spike so much, but I think I'm feeling a drop now from lunch. I guess I will try cutting back my lunchtime and dinner doses 10%-25% and see how it goes. I'm definitely not bolusing before the gym to counteract those exercise spikes like I did with Humalog, at least not yet!

[BriOnH]

I've been looking into Novolog (aspart) and bit more today and technically, it is a different protein from Humalog (lispro). In normal human insulin, amino acids 28 and 29 on the B chain are proline and lysine. In Humalog/lispro, these two positions are inverted so that it becomes lysine-proline. In Novolog/aspart, rather than an inversion of the two amino acids, there is a replacement: the B28-proline is replaced with aspartic acid.
!

Jen you rock. I (and my endo soon hehe) stand corrected, and they are different protiens. I wonder if that's where the active site of insulin is. Hopefully this link is a little more accurate than the last link I posted regarding differences: :banghead:

http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_treatments/insulin_humalog.php#Novolog

Sorry you have been rollercoastering with switching insulins Jen, that's never fun.

[DeusXM]

All insulins are different. Each trademarked insulin of each company is a different insulin protein, which is why there are so many different types of synthetic insulin available. Whilst all initially have the same base of 'human' insulin, as far as I'm aware, pure human insulin is not used for treatment purposes because it doesn't function in a flexible enough way to be integrated with either a pump or injection delivery system.

Each company genetically modifes the bacteria that produce the insulin to produce very specific types of insulin as differing solutions to the same problem. Both Lantus and Levemir are 'technically' the same stuff because they're long-acting, peakless synth insulins. However, they're totally different proteins and work in different ways. The same applies for Novorapid and Humalog, as I originally pointed out.

[duck]

**** that lys-pro/aspart confusion!

[BriOnH]

With so many different insulins out there, I wonder if I am on the right kinds. My insurance provider tells me "we are no longer carrying Humalog, we are now switching to Novolog which is the same thing with a different name" and it turns out they are not identical. Granted it was obvious they wanted to cut costs but to lie about it is not cool. I was also told Regular (Humanlin R) insulin the same as insulin found in Regular Humans.


Though, I've felt a bit weird all day since lunchtime when I switched, very lightheaded, very doped-up-on-Benadryl kind of feeling, sort of like I'm going low but I'm not, as if I'm about to pass out. :marchmell And I couldn't do anything in my gym class tonight, not even lift a 3lb weight.

I often feel like I am going low when I am not. For me though I am pretty sure it is more mental than hormonal, but it makes me wonder.

[JediSkipdogg]

My insurance charges twice as much for Humalog. Their answer was it wasn't on their "preferred list" of drugs. So I wrote a letter stating why I feel it should be on their preferred list. But I think I may talk to my doctor about trying to make the switch for a short time to see if that helps me at all.

[Cinnabon]

I used Humalog very little and didn't get too much of a feel for it when I was on MDI. Since I started pumping, the only insulin they approve is Novolog. I can't complain. It works very well for me and my insurance actually charges more for Novolog than Humalog.

[BriOnH]

For what it's worth, It was well before humalog I have felt those symptoms. Was going through the timeline tonight and it was when i started Regular (from Pork R/NPH to regular) those symptoms seem to correspond to taking it. Again I am not sure if their is a relationship or not, but Jen's post got me thinking about it too.
Did cutting back help Jen?

[jen_slc]

For what it's worth, It was well before humalog I have felt those symptoms.

Did cutting back help Jen?

I wonder if that's where the active site of insulin is.

What symptoms were those, Brian?

Yup, I cut my dinner dose by 20% tonight and it worked beautifully! I don't remember the last time my 2 hr post-prandial was 112, it's just unheard of for me, lol. :biggrin: Better watch it though, it's probably going to drop further again thru the night and I need some sleep tonight. :coffee:

In terms of insulin's active site, I don't think a ton is known about how insulin binds to its receptor, but there are some "hot spots" in the central portion of the B chain, particularly B12 (valine) and B16 (tyrosine). The likely areas of binding don't seem to include the end of the B chain where the changes are made for lispro and aspart. :albertein Ah, I miss my biochemistry, I need to dig out my books from storage. What a nerd! :nerd:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15276842&query_hl=1

[BriOnH]

What symptoms were those, Brian?

:albertein Ah, I miss my biochemistry, I need to dig out my books from storage. What a nerd! :nerd:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15276842&query_hl=1

Feeling like I am low or dropping low when I am often not. I think it's just a reflex I have problems with, but you brining up some the symptoms you felt while changing just got me thinking a lot about what diabetic patients are forced to use, rather than choose.

hahaha I am right there with you, I was breaking down the amino acids to their chemical structure with my organic chem modeling kit. I gotta turn this into my sr thesis paper some how. I want a cure though! Or just an awesome smart insulin.

Cool article, reading it now. Glad the cut back is working!

[willow the elf]

When I switched from Humolog to Novalog I was told Novolog gives more bangs for the buck. Yep, they were right. The LBS came suddenly. It took a couple of days to get used to the Novolog.

[gettingby]

I, too, have been considering a change from Humalog to Novolog. I have a friend who just went on Lantus/Novolog after being on 70/30 for a long time and she seems to "bottom out" quite quickly so I have my reservations about changing.
Is it possible to develop a resistance to an insulin type?

[jen_slc]

I, too, have been considering a change from Humalog to Novolog. I have a friend who just went on Lantus/Novolog after being on 70/30 for a long time and she seems to "bottom out" quite quickly so I have my reservations about changing.
Is it possible to develop a resistance to an insulin type?Yeah, definitely been bottoming out quickly - a couple nights ago I went from 250 to 46 in one hour after 2 units of Novolog for correction and it hit me hard and fast. :vollkomme But besides getting used to its different action profile, I already much prefer Novolog over Humalog. I'm taking less for my meals and my post-meal readings are much better. I don't know if you can develop resistance to a certain insulin type/brand, but I feel like Humalog was becoming less and less effective for me.

[Simons]

I pulled a boo-boo. tried to finish a message and all of a sudden it disappeared so i will start again.
I had gotten on Humalog several years ago when they had the 1.5 size and l/2 unit measeurements. I really liked that pen but than they decided to discontinue the 1.5 and go to 3. But they did not have the 3 in a half unit pen. So I changed to Novolog which I could get the jr pen. It is ok but I do not like it as well as the l.5 half unit but so be it.
In the past 62 years I have been on most every kind of insulin there was or is.
Simons:dontknow:

[BriOnH]

In the past 62 years I have been on most every kind of insulin there was or is.

Wow!! Simons that's impressive! How is your health if you dont mind me asking? I am coming up on 30 years with diabetes.

[gettingby]

Yeah, definitely been bottoming out quickly - a couple nights ago I went from 250 to 46 in one hour after 2 units of Novolog for correction and it hit me hard and fast. :vollkomme But besides getting used to its different action profile, I already much prefer Novolog over Humalog. I'm taking less for my meals and my post-meal readings are much better. I don't know if you can develop resistance to a certain insulin type/brand, but I feel like Humalog was becoming less and less effective for me.
Thanks for the update Jen. I just had my A1C done today and when I get the results tomorrow, I'm gonna schedule an appointment with my doctor's new CDE. They told me today that she's really good and has alot of experience so I'll give her a shot (LOL, I made a funny). I've got alot of questions for her. hehehe.:-

[Simons]

Wow!! Simons that's impressive! How is your health if you dont mind me asking? I am coming up on 30 years with diabetes.
I hafve some complications but I still live alone and am active in volunteer work. I do find that as each year goes by that my bs is more difficult to control. At times it is very volitatle. I would guess that it has been more than 30 years since I have had a hypo bad enough to loose consciousness.
Simons:itsme: