Diabetes reversed in monkeys

[Tony]

Researchers at the University of Minnesota announced Sunday that they were able to reverse diabetes in monkeys by transplanting insulin-producing cells from pigs. More info here. (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/features/health/sfl-adiabetes20feb20,0,5888170.story?coll=sfla-news-health)

[JediSkipdogg]

I read about that and that's pretty cool. I found some more info on it somewhere else and they say some of the monkeys are on no anti-rejection drugs. The biggest problem still is creating islet cells. They say you can only get 1 islet cell from a healthy pancreas. With over 20 million diabetics in the US, that's alot of islet cells needed and you have to hope they aren't rejected.

[Cyborg]

They are already implanting islet cells in humans in clinical trials.

[JediSkipdogg]

They are already implanting islet cells in humans in clinical trials.

But for the human versions anti-rejection drugs are being taken. So one is supplementing insulin with an anti-rejection drug. In the Monkey/Pig experiment they are actually finding that no anti-rejection drugs are needed. In the majority of their trials, the body has not re-attacked the islet cells, only a small percentage have had to go back on insulin, the rest are drug free.

[Cyborg]

Without going into politics and/or religeon, once they perfect the procedure and then transfer the technology to humans, all we need is stem cell research as the last link (forget the pancreas donations). Wow! That is promising.

I knew about the rejections in humans and the anti-rejection drugs people had to take. I did not know about the monkey trials. Anyone got a link to more info?

[duck]

:hmmmm: Why is it that everyone seems to think the cure to everything is in stem cells? :dontknow: :listen: Not picking on you, Cyborg, you were just the first to say it. Here we have a study that says they reversed diabetes in monkeys without stem cells, YET the next leap is to think we need stem cells for a human treatment? :1eye:

(and this has nothing to do with religion for me, I'll never be acused of being religious, I'm just wondering if anyone has read of all the stem-cell failures/shortcomings of late?):ciao:

[duck]

Eeesh, I "sound" mean. Someone put some smilies in my previous post, please. :burnout:

[Cyborg]

I didn't mean to imply that stem cells were the only way to go. It just seems to me that it is a good way to replicate or mass produce the needed islet cells needed to cure a diabetic. Cloning has gotten such a bad rep and now stem cell is getting one before it is getting a fair chance. I'm not for or against stem cell research. I just want a cure for diabetes, period. I don't care how they get the cure.

[rea]

I live in Edmonton, Canada, and they are already doing islet cell transplants here.


http://www.diabetes.org.uk/islets/trans/edmonton.htm

[BriOnH]

Why is it that everyone seems to think the cure to everything is in stem cells?

Because they have the ability to become any cell in the body. Replacing damaged or lost cells and most importantly the nucleus in the stem cells is identical to every other cell in the body.

Cloning has gotten such a bad rep and now stem cell is getting one before it is getting a fair chance.

Stem cell research isn't getting a bad rep, it's the way they are collected in which the debate arises. Embroyonic stem cell research, in which the stem cells are collected from human embryos, will hold the same arguement that abortion does. I don't believe embryonic stem cell research hold the answers because the stem cells are from a donor and are not identidied as 'self' when in a new host. Scientist can transplant nuclei from the patient(new host) to the embryonic stem cells to trick the new host into thinking they are 'self' but this is a very, VERY cumbersome process and often very unsuccessfull. IMO Adult stem cells are where the answers lie, and are not subject to much debate, other than if you want to clone someone with the adult stem cell. These cells are collected from adult patients.

I live in Edmonton, Canada, and they are already doing islet cell transplants here.


http://www.diabetes.org.uk/islets/trans/edmonton.htm

That's where the name for the Edmonton Protocol came from! DoH, I always wonder how it got that name. Canada has done so much for diabetes treatment/research. Pretty cool.
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I have seen this article all over the news threads yesterday and today, and don't see how it is that big of news. Scientists having been doing stuff like this since the 80's. I guess they are just getting better at it. This latest news threads technology is way behind www.microislet.com technology. We need to gather all the top scientists and get them on the same page. Anyone have a couple of million for it? :D

[Cyborg]

I'm sure the diabetes pump, supply and drug companies have the money required, but that would hurt their profits!

[duck]

I'm sure the diabetes pump, supply and drug companies have the money required, but that would hurt their profits!

Did someone just summon me for a conspiracy theory?

LOL

[Cyborg]

:hmmmm:




.

[duck]

:hmmmm:




.

I'm just kidding, though I have heard conspiracy theories on the dozens of diseases where the cure exists, but the powers-that-be have sat on that information in order to make a profit selling drugs to those who have said diseases...If they don't die, they make someone money. If they die, they don't make you money. And if they are cured, they stop buying your drugs, and you make no money. So sit on the cure.

Wait...Now that I say that...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...:hmmmm2:

[gettingby]

Duck thinks of a conspiracy theory??? Why am I not surprised !! LOL j/k Duck. Don't take that seriously.:eviltongu ;) :D

[Carwy]

Because they have the ability to become any cell in the body. Replacing damaged or lost cells and most importantly the nucleus in the stem cells is identical to every other cell in the body.



Stem cell research isn't getting a bad rep, it's the way they are collected in which the debate arises. Embroyonic stem cell research, in which the stem cells are collected from human embryos, will hold the same arguement that abortion does. I don't believe embryonic stem cell research hold the answers because the stem cells are from a donor and are not identidied as 'self' when in a new host. Scientist can transplant nuclei from the patient(new host) to the embryonic stem cells to trick the new host into thinking they are 'self' but this is a very, VERY cumbersome process and often very unsuccessfull. IMO Adult stem cells are where the answers lie, and are not subject to much debate, other than if you want to clone someone with the adult stem cell. These cells are collected from adult patients.



That's where the name for the Edmonton Protocol came from! DoH, I always wonder how it got that name. Canada has done so much for diabetes treatment/research. Pretty cool.
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I have seen this article all over the news threads yesterday and today, and don't see how it is that big of news. Scientists having been doing stuff like this since the 80's. I guess they are just getting better at it. This latest news threads technology is way behind www.microislet.com technology. We need to gather all the top scientists and get them on the same page. Anyone have a couple of million for it? :D
Stem Cells have the ability to become any cell in bone marrow. i.e. White blood cells(immune) Red blood cells or platelets. They are in the bone marrow and when the body tell the bone marrow what it needs those(stem cells) turn into these cells. They are immature cells in the bone marrow. They can not become skin, islet cells. Actually they are programmed to attack the islet cells in a diabetic. That is why diabetics can not do an autologous stem cell transplant. The only way I was able to do an autologous stem cell transplant was because my cancer had not invaded my bone marrow. We (Dewey and I) know a few people who passed the screening and arrived for the stem cell transplant and where rejected because the bone marrow had been compermised.
Also this process takes years it is not an in and out procedure. I will not have an immun system for a year and a I will not be able to work or be in large crowdes for the first year. Also it could take up to 5 years to completely heal. I have to take 12 pills Saturday through Wednesday and then on Thursday and Friday I take 16. Then ever 3 week I have to take a shot. If everything goes right and as planned I might be able to quit taking them after a year.
Everyone we know who has done Allogeneic transplat has been on immunosuppressive medications.
Please read this for more information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_transplant

[sydneya]

But for the human versions anti-rejection drugs are being taken. So one is supplementing insulin with an anti-rejection drug. In the Monkey/Pig experiment they are actually finding that no anti-rejection drugs are needed. In the majority of their trials, the body has not re-attacked the islet cells, only a small percentage have had to go back on insulin, the rest are drug free.

That is amazing. We are getting closer. This is an amazing time to live. :joyman:

[Cyborg]

How do you know that stem cells cannot be used to form islet cells?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stem-cells/GA00012

[JediSkipdogg]

I read somewhere online that the diabetes industry is a 20 billion dollar industry a year. If they do come up with a transplant type surgery, the doctors/hospitals will make around $20,000-$30,000 per surgery, giving the surgical "cure" somewhere around only a $300 million industry a year. This is nowhere near the supply industry. However, the supply industry will still exist for all of those newly diagnosed and those that get the operation and have it rejected or for those that are unable to have the operation (medical problem, money, time frame, age, etc.)

Therefore both industries will still survive, and it would take approxiamately 5-10 years before the surgical procedure and whatever other treatments are needed will reach every major city. It's not like a doctor is going to wake up tomorrow, find the cure, and then in a week we all be cured. It will take time, and those capable of doing the "cure" will make so much off of it in their first few years they alone can retire.

But for now we are just a few steps behind.

[JediSkipdogg]

How do you know that stem cells cannot be used to form islet cells?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stem-cells/GA00012

Right now it's not proven yes or no. It is however proven that the two are very differentiated and that a slight altering of a stem cell can not turn into an islet cell. There is still also the fear of huge rejection from stem cells. In stem cell research one of the key things they do (Carwy, correct me if I'm wrong) is they take stem cells and start to modify them to form the cells they want. The problem is, if your body doesn't like the modifications done outside the body, then your body will reject the newly implanted cells. Basically making all the time and money wasted since it's not a simple procedure.

[Carwy]

How do you know that stem cells cannot be used to form islet cells?

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stem-cells/GA00012
From all the doctors I have talked to and all the research we have done on it. Do you think I would have something done to my body if I did not know what was going on. Also is it worth it to live on immunosuppressive medications for the rest of your life. Read my signture.

[Carwy]

In stem cell research one of the key things they do (Carwy, correct me if I'm wrong) is they take stem cells and start to modify them to form the cells they want.
NO they do not. They just take them out and then they give you high dose radiation and chemo, and let your body set for a couple of days, then they put them back in. They kill your bone marrow and all fast growing cells in your body and then replace the stem cells and let them start to form new cells that are needed in the bone marrow.

[JediSkipdogg]

From all the doctors I have talked to and all the research we have done on it. Do you think I would have something done to my body if I did not know what was going on. Also is it worth it to live on immunosuppressive medications for the rest of your life. Read my signture.

With all of those pills you listed before I would personally rather take a shot or stay with my pump if the option was stem cell transplant or stay diabetic. Also, not being able to go out in public? I'd have to quit my job too since I deal with public all the time and well, they aren't always in great health.

[Carwy]

Also to let you all know a stem cell transplant in NOT a cure. My chance of cancer not coming back is only 99%. Was it worth it? yes it was. After 5 years my chance of livin goes up also. For the first 5 years I only have a 40% chance of living. Was that worth it? Yes anything for my family and friends.

[BriOnH]

Bone marrow isn't the only place that stem cells are found in humans. The full potential of adult stem cells is still in it's early stages and still has to mature alot. I didn't mean that it is the answer, yet. I believe the cure for diabetes will ultimately lie in adult stem (NOT embryonic stem cells) cells and this autoimmune technique developed by dr. faustman:
http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/diabetes/laboratory_type1.htm

Once the (semi)free market develops cell technology to treat diabetes it will force big pharma to compete for better technologies which will ultimatly lead up to a cure.

[Carwy]

Bone marrow isn't the only place that stem cells are found in humans. The full potential of adult pluripotent stem cells is still in it's early stages and still has to mature alot. I didn't mean that it is the answer, yet. I believe the cure for diabetes will ultimately lie in adult stem cells and this autoimmune technique developed by dr. faustman:
http://www.mgh.harvard.edu/diabetes/laboratory_type1.htm

Once the (semi)free market develops cell technology to treat diabetes it will force big pharma to compete for better technologies which will ultimatly lead up to a cure.
Your right it is in your blood. However it is not enough to collect. They give you large doses of Neupogen to excite the bone marrow to release it into the blood stream so it can be collected. They gave me 8 time the normal dose. Stem Cells are cells that are immature. they do not know what they want to be. Red, White or platelets. I know this from talking to some of the top doctors in the what is called marrow transplant. These doctors work for Fred Hutch Cancer Center, Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, and Puget Sounds Veterans Health Care System. All of them work in the field of oncology and are all professors in the field.
They also told me that my stem cells now what my cancer cells look like and think that they are part of my body. That is why they had to kill all the cancer cells before the transplant. So this would tell me. IMHO that your stem cells would see you islet cells as forgin and not part of your body and attack and kill them.
Stem cell transplants are not a cure all they just give you a better chance of beating what is wrong. You should read all of Deweys post of what I went through. They are posted here and the forums. I have also asked her to put them all together so I can place the on my home page.

[BriOnH]

Your right it is in your blood. However it is not enough to collect. They give you large doses of Neupogen to excite the bone marrow to release it into the blood stream so it can be collected. They gave me 8 time the normal dose. Stem Cells are cells that are immature. they do not know what they want to be. Red, White or platelets. I know this from talking to some of the top doctors in the what is called marrow transplant. These doctors work for Fred Hutch Cancer Center, Seattle Cancer Care Alliance, and Puget Sounds Veterans Health Care System. All of them work in the field of oncology and are all professors in the field.

There is also evidence that there are stem cells in the pancrease, GI track, liver, and stomach (these are just the ones I know off the top of my head). They aren't limited to blood and bone marrow, which is where your scope lies. Again scientists can't trick the stem cells they find in organs to be anything other then what they can already be, yet, and yes they are extremely difficult to collect, but I believe, and my belief may be wrong, that scientists will eventually be able to collect just a small sample of stem cells, grow them, and transplant them.

[Carwy]

I was going to reply to this thread but I have nothing else to say on the subjust some one who has never been through it. I hope that you never ever have to go through it. but if you think it is worth it I hope it works for you.

[Dewey]

There is also evidence that there are stem cells in the pancrease, GI track, liver, and stomach (these are just the ones I know off the top of my head). They aren't limited to blood and bone marrow, which is where your scope lies. Again scientists can't trick the stem cells they find in organs to be anything other then what they can already be, yet, and yes they are extremely difficult to collect, but I believe, and my belief may be wrong, that scientists will eventually be able to collect just a small sample of stem cells, grow them, and transplant them.
My question is what price are people willing to pay physically to be "cured" of Diabetes? I'm not trying to sound rude, but I don't know how many times I've explained the harshness of stem cell treatment. Regardless of the diseases that stem cells are being used to treat, the protocol is not an easy one, and people have died while undergoing transplants.

I've personally witnessed Carwy lose control over his bowels & bladder, amongst other not-so-fun side effects. Although this is what he went through (and others' experiences will differ), these are things that anyone undergoing a stem cell transplant can experience. Furthermore, if people have an allogenic transplant (where the cells come either from donors or other sources), they Have to remain on immunosuppressant drugs, or they run the major (even deadly risk) of GVHD or HVGD. I've not heard of one transplant where people did NOT have to take immunosuppressant drugs.

[Cyborg]

My question is what price are people willing to pay physically to be "cured" of Diabetes? I'm not trying to sound rude, but I don't know how many times I've explained the harshness of stem cell treatment. Regardless of the diseases that stem cells are being used to treat, the protocol is not an easy one, and people have died while undergoing transplants.

I've personally witnessed Carwy lose control over his bowels & bladder, amongst other not-so-fun side effects. Although this is what he went through (and others' experiences will differ), these are things that anyone undergoing a stem cell transplant can experience. Furthermore, if people have an allogenic transplant (where the cells come either from donors or other sources), they Have to remain on immunosuppressant drugs, or they run the major (even deadly risk) of GVHD or HVGD. I've not heard of one transplant where people did NOT have to take immunosuppressant drugs.

I don't think anyone was down playing the terrible experience that Carwy had and is going through. In fact some of us, myself included, have had family members that have had to go through cancer treatments.

Stem cell treatment for cancer is different than islet cell transplant as a cure for diabetes. The Edmonton protocol seems to be working fairly well for many patients. There does seem to be alot of research currently being done to find ways to turn stem cells into islet cells and that was the point.

[BriOnH]

I think where we are differing here is what is avaiable now and what the future holds. Like i said since the beggining, right now it is FAR from being perfected, and I am looking towards the future on facts that have been established that can be built apon. Carwy has experienced what is available now, this imo is analagous to the first insulins used where you have to give over 5cc's of insulin at a time with a needle you sharpen over a wetstone and boil and have no idea what your blood sugar is, but you live! Over the years it got better and better (hence free market), just like i believe it will with stem cells. With what Carwy has been through it is the latest and greatest of what we have availaible(light years ahead of 5 cc insulin doses and wetstones), but I know it will improve even more. And I am sorry you had to go through what you had to go through, and can't even imagine the awfullness of it, but your first person experience and expertise(and i greatly consider you a subject matter expert on this, and respect you carwy) is with cancer related stem cell technologies. If you believe cells won't be perfected to the point where they can be differentiated into any cell, be truely recognized as self and not rejected is a belief I just have to disagree with. It's ok to agree to disagree.

[Dewey]

I think where we are differing here is what is avaiable now and what the future holds. Like i said since the beggining, right now it is FAR from being perfected, and I am looking towards the future on facts that have been established that can be built apon. Carwy has experienced what is available now, this imo is analagous to the first insulins used where you have to give over 5cc's of insulin at a time with a needle you sharpen over a wetstone and boil and have no idea what your blood sugar is, but you live! Over the years it got better and better (hence free market), just like i believe it will with stem cells. With what Carwy has been through it is the latest and greatest of what we have availaible(light years ahead of 5 cc insulin doses and wetstones), but I know it will improve even more. And I am sorry you had to go through what you had to go through, and can't even imagine the awfullness of it, but your first person experience and expertise(and i greatly consider you a subject matter expert on this, and respect you carwy) is with cancer related stem cell technologies. If you believe cells won't be perfected to the point where they can be differentiated into any cell, be truely recognized as self and not rejected is a belief I just have to disagree with. It's ok to agree to disagree.
You're very right about this Brion (about the advancements made in stem cell treaments over the years), and about how things have changed even since we've started on insulin (or other meds) for our Diabetes. I hope that things will continue to be perfected as time goes on, so that in the future, everyone may reap benefits with little or no side effects. :thumbsup:

[Carwy]

Your right Brion. I would say do not do it right now if you do not have too. Also I can only give you what I know. I no expert but I do know what I have been through. Right now in this time and age if you do not have something that is life threating I would say do not do it. They are now telling me that if they do it twice they have better results. I say the cancer is in remission and there is no way I will do it again until I have to. That will be if the cancer comes back and not before then. I'm just saying way the risk against the advantages of it.