Bg Numbers Always Over 200 After Breakfast

[myraj]

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating. Can't understand what is causing this.

[seacomp]

Hello, welcome to the forum. Maybe we can help some. I didn't see you were new at first and wrote -
Well you're eating carbs, add that to the Dawn Phenomena and what do you expect? What's your fasting gb?
Also what meds are you on?

[Penny]

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating. Can't understand what is causing this.

Hello Myraj and welcome to the forum. I can eat a small serving of oatmeal, or a slice of whole wheat toast and not have a problem. If I ate both, I would be in trouble. Also, if you are adding milk to the oatmeal that is more carbs. I try to eat something with a lot of protein in the mornings, it seems to keep my levels lower. What medicines are you taking?

[greendavid]

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.

The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. The Joslin Diabetes Center (http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_709.asp) at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.

The web site of the famous Dr. Bernstein (who recommends a radical low-carb diet) says proudly that his theories were "developed almost completely outside the mainstream of diabetology." Judge for yourself. (And whatever you decide, don't be snide about it.)

Specifically to myraj: I have learned that many people with type 2 taking oral meds (including me) have high BG readings in the morning, even when eating small amounts of carbohydrate. I believe it is a consequence of hormones released by the body between 4 and 8 a.m. which increase insulin resistance. This is known as the "Dawn Phenomenon" and you can read about it here (http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dp.htm).

[Penny]

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.

The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. The Joslin Diabetes Center (http://www.joslin.org/managing_your_diabetes_709.asp) at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.

The web site of the famous Dr. Bernstein (who recommends a radical low-carb diet) says proudly that his theories were "developed almost completely outside the mainstream of diabetology." Judge for yourself. (And whatever you decide, don't be snide about it.)

Specifically to myraj: I have learned that many people with type 2 taking oral meds (including me) have high BG readings in the morning, even when eating small amounts of carbohydrate. I believe it is a consequence of hormones released by the body between 4 and 8 a.m. which increase insulin resistance. This is known as the "Dawn Phenomenon" and you can read about it here (http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dp.htm).

I'm sorry Myraj, if my remark sounded snide. I was telling you what worked for me. It has been noted many times on this forum, that what works for one, might not work for others. We almost always add that you need to find out what will work for you. I just know that until I started counting my carbs, I had almost no control. I went from a almost 10 A1C to 6.3, in less than six months, after I started counting. I'm sorry Greendavid if I seemed to have an attitude, I only meant to offer my experience to help someone who asked for help.

[spike]

I'm sorry Myraj, if my remark sounded snide. I was telling you what worked for me. It has been noted many times on this forum, that what works for one, might not work for others. We almost always add that you need to find out what will work for you. I just know that until I started counting my carbs, I had almost no control. I went from a almost 10 A1C to 6.3, in less than six months, after I started counting. I'm sorry Greendavid if I seemed to have an attitude, I only meant to offer my experience to help someone who asked for help.

Penny, I think his complaint was with Seacomp, judging from the content of your post and seacomps.

I get high from just wheat toast, even on insulin, so I don't think that seacomp is incorrect in warning the OP about carbs at breakfast. oatmeal AND toast maybe too many carbs. AAMOF, the OP complained of high bg's after breakfast. doesn't that pretty much tell the tale? :)

[Penny]

Penny, I think his complaint was with Seacomp, judging from the content of your post and seacomps.

I get high from just wheat toast, even on insulin, so I don't think that seacomp is incorrect in warning the OP about carbs at breakfast. oatmeal AND toast maybe too many carbs. AAMOF, the OP complained of high bg's after breakfast. doesn't that pretty much tell the tale? :)

Just didn't want Seacomp to feel picked on, he is fairly new. We both kind of told him he was eating too many carbs for breakfast.:) Also, wouldn't want anyone to be angry about advice I give to anyone. Thanks Spike, I agree, and it's nice to know someone has my back.:five:

[seacomp]

Myraj, we seem to be ignoring your problem. We're not really, but you got stuck, not your fault, in the middle of an ongoing debate here about carbs. The problem of course is that you have to eat something and there are only three choices protein (meat), fat, or carbs. There are arguments against all three!
For your problem, it would help to know more about meds, your fasting bg, etc.

[Penny]

Myraj, we seem to be ignoring your problem. We're not really, but you got stuck, not your fault, in the middle of an ongoing debate here about carbs. The problem of course is that you have to eat something and there are only three choices protein (meat), fat, or carbs. There are arguments against all three!
For your problem, it would help to know more about meds, your fasting bg, etc.

The thing is, we are all in the same boat on this forum...fighting a terrible disease. We cannot give anyone any advice, except about what works for us. This forum is for that reason, to share what we can and to try to help each other. All of us have the option of trying anything offered by anyone. Maybe carb counting won't work for you, you are free to try other advice, too. Like Seacomp said, it would help to know what medications and fasting levels are.

[greendavid]

Sorry if I was obnoxious. I never am in real life! :whistling:

It's important that we not discount anyone's experience. I don't like to see it happen and I'm sorry if I did it.

We need all the wisdom we can get!

[Tokyo Cate]

Welcome Myraj, you will get the hang of it :wavey: . Your profile says you were recently diagnosed and don't like it. I think we all can understand what you are going through and want to offer you support. Use the Forums and your health care team to sort out what works for you. It takes a lot of trial and error.

Your highish post-breakfast readings indicate that you either need to adjust your medication, if possible (I don't know much about Type 2 management), change your breakfast or increase your activity following breakfast. Experiment with what you eat for breakfast over the week to come to see if that improves your result.

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating.

I have found that oatmeal causes my blood sugar to rise quite a bit the few times I have eaten it for breakfast and avoid it, but it can be quite filling. Perhaps sticking with the toast and adding something filling, but low in carbohydrates like a boiled egg would be as filling and have less of an impact on your post-breakfast blood sugars.

As others have said, the Dawn Phenomenon may be playing a part in the equation, but regardless your experience has shown that your blood sugars are too high for you after breakfast and either adjusting your meal, your medication or your activity seem like the best ways to correct the problem. Could you go for a walk after breakfast every day? Doing that could also correct the problem and (hopefully) give you more energy for the day.

Good luck and welcome to the Forums. It really is a supportive place and I hope to see you often. :ciao:

[Cinnabon]

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.
The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.



This has to be a joke, Sorry info rthe info greendavid, but Lo-Carb works wonders for BG control.


Carbs is what affects us most no matter what Flavor of diabetes you have.

[greendavid]

Obviously I've stepped on a toe or two here. I don't mean any disrespect, and if low-carb diets are helping people, then that's what they should be doing.

However, as far as I can tell, the reputable medical and nutritional authorities of the United States do not recommend low-carb diets for people with diabetes.

Here is an excerpt from a statement by the American Diabetes Association (http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/27/9/2266), authored in 2004 by eight doctors, researchers, and practitioners from around the country:

Although dietary carbohydrate increases postprandial glucose levels, avoiding carbohydrate entirely will not return blood glucose levels to the normal range. Additionally, dietary carbohydrate is an important component of a healthy diet. For example, glucose is the primary fuel used by the brain and central nervous system, and foods that contain carbohydrate are important sources of many nutrients, including water-soluble vitamins and minerals as well as fiber. Given the above, low-carbohydrate diets are not recommended in the management of diabetes. Recently, the National Academy of Sciences–Food and Nutrition Board recommended that diets provide 45–65% of calories from carbohydrate, with a minimum intake of 130 g carbohydrate/day for adults.

I would be glad to learn of evidence-based, medically authoritative statements to the contrary. Please post the links in this thread.

[seacomp]

I would be glad to learn of evidence-based, medically authoritative statements to the contrary. Please post the links in this thread.
What you have quoted does not meet your own criteria. It is certainly a "authoritative statement"; it's the medical establishment. But it just assertions, not evidence. You certainly, for example, don't need a lot of carbs to get your vitamins.
I would refer you to Dr. R. Bernstein -
http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/
for a medical explanation.
There certainly are many problem with a low-carb diet, like staying on it, affording it, etc. But for those who do not use external insulin, low-carb and exercise are the only handles one has on bg levels.
If the only criteria is managing BG levels then low carb must be looked at.

[Cinnabon]

Advantages of Low-Carbing

Sustained weight loss
Stabilized blood sugar (especially important for diabetics)
Lower insulin levels Better blood lipid profile (low cholesterol)
Lowered blood pressure
More energy
Vitamins and Minerals
But isn't a low-carb diet deficient in vitamins and minerals that are found in fresh fruits and vegetables? A low-carb lifestyle used to control diabetes and not to lose weight can be quite balanced--just stay away from refined carbohydrates. However, most low-carb diets used for weight loss are not "balanced" in terms of providing all the essential micronutrients. That is why it is extremely important to supplement your diet with good-quality vitamin and mineral products. It is also important to take a fiber supplement.

Look at it this way: All your life your body has been constantly subjected to high "doses" of sugar, in the form of refined carbohydrates. Your body recognizes only one carbohydrate -- sugar. All carbohydrates you eat, except fiber, are converted into sugar. Eating a diet that is 70% carbohydrates means that most of what you eat is sugar. That type of diet is also unbalanced. The purpose of a low-carb diet is to bring your body chemistry and insulin sensitivity back into balance. To do that, you must eat a diet that is unbalanced in the opposite direction of they way you have been eating for years.
http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/



The American Diabetes Association has endorsed reduced carbs, not just sugar, ... I also know that, let’s be honest here, even among low-carb advocates, ...

http://www.fabulousfoods.com/fitfab/articles/atkinsattack.html

[MarkMunday]

..... as far as I can tell, the reputable medical and nutritional authorities of the United States do not recommend low-carb diets for people with diabetes..... I would be glad to learn of evidence-based, medically authoritative statements to the contrary. Please post the links in this thread.
The bottom line is that you will find "reputable studies" to back whatever line you choose to support. It is estimated that at least half of the published medical studies are funded directly or indirectly by food and pharmaceutical business interests. And the studies that get the most visibility are the ones with the the most money behind them.

It is no coincidence that the traditional food pyramid was an invention of the US Department of Agruculture. The USDA has a very clear agenda - to promote the interests of all the farmers out there cultivating grains. And there can be non doubt that the high-carb way of eating is in the best interests of the pharmaceutical companies too.

There are no big business interests behind the low-carb way of eating, which is why you have to actively look for info on it. The recent $415 million federally funded study that shows a high-carb diet provides no protection against heart disease and cancer is an exception to the rule. But, having said that, there is lots of research out there that supports the low-carb approach. You just have to look for it. Go here an scroll through the items :

http://www.lowcarb.ca/newsmenu/researchfor.html

Enough said about what to me is a blatant money-making conspiracy. Anyway, I guess the bottom line is that we all need to be open to alternative ideas. And we need to be adventurous in terms of trying them out. Because the rewards of finding something that works for you are enormous. It was only when I could no longer tolerate the high-carb way of eating that I started thinking outside the box. And I wish I had been a bit more adventurous during the first 20 years of being a diabetic.

Cheers,

Mark

[labob]

I don't want to add fuel to the flame, but this is my approach to breakfast. Until I was diagnosed, I pretty much never ate anything in the morning. That came to an end after my diagnosis, mostly because the medications I was taking forced me to eat something in the morning. The problem: I'm not a morning person, never have been, probably never will be, so it's inconceivable for me to get up early enough to prepare a protein-based breakfast before I have to go to work. In my unimaginative world view, that pretty much leaves cold cereal, which can be prepared and eaten in about 5 or 6 minutes.

I experimented with the kind and quantity of cereal I ate, and eventually settled on 3/4 cup of Cheerios (Special K is even lower in carbs than Cheerios, but I like the idea that Cheerios are made from whole grain oats). Even though most of my post-breakfast readings on this regime were OK, I still sometimes registered above the target range at first. I was grousing about the occasional high reading with my sister, and she informed me that soy milk has fewer carbs than cow's milk (I don't know how or why she knew this, because she's not diabetic, but there you are). I'm not lactose intolerant and had never had soy milk, so it had never crossed my mind to try it. Well, I did, and eventually found a brand that I think pretty much approximates the taste of cow's milk but has only 6g of carbs (4 of them from fiber), as opposed to the 13g of carbs in cow's milk. That 7 grams made all the difference for me -- since I've switched to soy milk, I've easily stayed within the range my doctor has prescribed. This is quite an achievement for me because I seem to be much more insulin resistant in the morning.

Another good thing about soy milk: it doesn't need to be refrigerated (until it's opened), and it has a much longer shelf life than cow's milk. If you decide to try it, give several different brands a try (I liked some better than others). Also, pay very close attention to the labels -- from what I've been able to gather, the non-fat versions of soy milk contain almost as many carbs as cow's milk (so really, unless you're lactose intolerant, what's the point). The brand I like (unsweetened Vitasoy, fortified with extra calcium and fiber) has about as much fat as 2% milk.

So I guess where I end up in all of this is that carbs are definintely still a part of my diet, but I really do have to watch how many carbs I eat at any given sitting, especially earlier in the day (and since my breakfast is basically all carbs, I really have to watch it then). Since I don't want to devote more than a minute to morning meal preparation, I had to figure out a way to make it work. Soy milk and a small amount of cereal have been my solution. It's not very creative, but then again, I'd rather sleep than eat.

Also, don't forget that if you add milk or cream to your morning coffee (assuming that you drink coffee), you need to take those carbs into account, too. Your higher-than-desired morning readings might not be just the combination of oatmeal and toast. Also, from what I've read, "instant" oatmeal wreaks more havoc on your blood glucose than regular oatmeal, presumably because it's more processed. Just keep experimenting and eventually you'll find out what works for you.

[labob]

My apologies: I noticed after I posted my reply that you specified that you drink your coffee black. Please disregard the advice in my last paragraph to keep in mind that adding milk or cream to coffee adds to your morning carb load -- I think I was talking to myself there . . .

[cherokee_psh]

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating. Can't understand what is causing this.

Mine do something like this too! I am good before breakfast (under 110) then 2 hours later I can be up to 196 (I have not crossed that 200 number yet). Mine just started doing this in mid-January. But other meals do not cause this type of rise even McDonalds (fries, real soda, and fish, only 135). I am getting sold on the idea its the time of day.

It has caused a .4 increase in my A1C. Since my A1C is still under 6 we are just monitoring it. I am not on medication, just diet and exercise. Another increase like this last one will put me over 6 and into medication.

[Penny]

I experimented with the kind and quantity of cereal I ate, and eventually settled on 3/4 cup of Cheerios (Special K is even lower in carbs than Cheerios, but I like the idea that Cheerios are made from whole grain oats). Even though most of my post-breakfast readings on this regime were OK, I still sometimes registered above the target range at first. I was grousing about the occasional high reading with my sister, and she informed me that soy milk has fewer carbs than cow's milk (I don't know how or why she knew this, because she's not diabetic, but there you are). presumably because it's more processed. Just keep experimenting and eventually you'll find out what works for you.

I too tried the soy milk and find I like it and it makes a difference, when I eat cereal. I don't do this often as I seem to be able to keep my 2 hour reading lower, by eating protein in the morning, I save my carbs for my banana. But I really like a brand called Soy Slender, vanilla flavor(on the grocer shelf, not dairy cooler). It sure helps with the taste of the Fiber One type cereals I allow myself. I think it has 6 carbs, per 8 oz. serving. I can even drink a glass of it, as long as it is very cold, I have it with a low carb slice of bread and peanutbutter, some mornings.

[sydneya]

I too tried the soy milk and find I like it and it makes a difference, when I eat cereal. I don't do this often as I seem to be able to keep my 2 hour reading lower, by eating protein in the morning, I save my carbs for my banana. But I really like a brand called Soy Slender, vanilla flavor(on the grocer shelf, not dairy cooler). It sure helps with the taste of the Fiber One type cereals I allow myself. I think it has 6 carbs, per 8 oz. serving. I can even drink a glass of it, as long as it is very cold, I have it with a low carb slice of bread and peanutbutter, some mornings.

Okay, I'm taking your word for it, Penny. I have been fighting the idea of Soy for years. I'm going to the store tomarrow and holding you 100% responsible. (Only kidding--I know how to accept the consequences.)

[Lynpenny]

Everyone has their own idea about breakfast. I was high when I went to my endo once and she just said add more protein. So I do. My breakfast is figured on what my fasting blood sugar was. If it is low then cherrios, middle numbers then oatmeal with walnuts and cinnamon, high then it is eggs and one slice of wheat toast. Mostly it is middle numbers so oatmeal most days which is ok cause I have to keep my cholestrol down.

[Penny]

Okay, I'm taking your word for it, Penny. I have been fighting the idea of Soy for years. I'm going to the store tomarrow and holding you 100% responsible. (Only kidding--I know how to accept the consequences.)

Sydneya,
I bought the Soy Slender because I am cheap!:embarasse The other brands in the dairy case cost twice as much. I read that you could keep the milk on the shelf until you opened it, so figured the other brands were charging you to get it cold.:stupido2: My son drinks the chocolate to keep his cholesterol down, and says it is much better from the dairy case. Of course he doesn't drink the "no sugar added" kind, so that's probably why it tastes better to him....I couldn't tell that much difference. I think you will like it.

[kgm0612]

I cannot eat Oatmeal at all......it raises my BS too high, even though I bolus for the correct amount of carbs.

As was stated, what may work for one person, may not necessarily work for another. For me, I have no choice but to follow a low carb diet. It keeps my BS within or below target range 95% of the time. My weight has remained the same, give or take a couple of pounds, for the last 3 years.

Karen

[Ritehsedad]

I scanned through the responses & don't think I saw this question (I may be wrong) -

What is your blood sugar level before breakfast? What is the difference between the two? If you start out high, 2 hours after breakfast you'll be high. You shouldn't see higher than 40 mg/dl increase from pre-meal to post-meal.

[greendavid]

What you have quoted does not meet your own criteria. It is certainly a "authoritative statement"; it's the medical establishment. But it just assertions, not evidence.

The bottom line is that you will find "reputable studies" to back whatever line you choose to support.

You are right. It comes down to what authority you choose to accept.

My question then is: Why does it make more sense to accept the authority of Dr. Bernstein (whose book-selling website proclaims that his theories are "outside the mainstream of diabetology") rather than that of the American Diabetes Association, whose recommendations are accepted by thousands of hospitals and tens of thousands of practitioners throughout the world?

My Google searching has not yet revealed a single M.D. other than Bernstein himself who recommends a low-carb diet for people with diabetes. None of the research to which you referred me is more recent than 2002. This article (http://pharmacytimes.com/article.cfm?ID=2095) from the Pharmacy Times of March 2005 summarizes recent research, which universally discounts the safety and effectiveness of a low-carb diet for people with diabetes.

This is not to say that you should not eat the way you want. You should do whatever works for you, just as I will.

It's important for newbies in particular to understand that low-carb diets are "outside the mainstream" of diabetes treatment.

[MarkMunday]

... My question then is: Why does it make more sense to accept the authority of Dr. Bernstein proclaims that his theories are "outside the mainstream of diabetology") rather than that of the American Diabetes Association...
The answer to that question is very simple. I have tried both approaches. And I have chosen the one that works best for me. The high-carb approach simply didn't work for me. Impossible blood sugar volatility was ruining my life. The low-carb approach has got rid of all that. That is all there is to it.

I did very well on the ADA modus operandi for about 20 years. And then my control started deteriorating. When my HBAic got to 8.6%, I decided that there had to be a better way. As an avid follower of the the conventional wisdom, I was very resistant to what doctors, dieticians and CDEs told me was an unhealthy approach. But I found the low-carb logic very compelling : diabetics, by definition are not able to process carbohydrate properly. And putting them on a high carb diet is counter-intuitive, to say the least. I found the prospect of achieving vastly improved glycemic control very appealing. And I could see how a low-carb way of eating makes this possible.

For a long time I resisted the temptation to go low-carb because of the dangers everyone kept telling me about. But things weren't getting any better. I started working out in the gym in an effort to stabilise my blood sugars. But they went even more haywire. I switched from NPH to Lantus, but the improved control I was working so hard to achieve continued to evade me. Clearly, I needed to think outside the box.

It was only after reading Bernsteins book that began to question the validity of the conventional wisdom. And I decided to try out the low-carb approach for myself. I did baseline tests of all the important indicators - blood pressure, lipid profile and kidney function. And drastically cut carbs in my diet.

Since then, my glycemic control has improved enormously. I have got my HBA1c down 6.5-7.0%. And it would be a lot lower if I wasn't going through an extremely stressful time at the moment. My goal is to get the HBA1c below 6.0% and clear up the retinopathy, which recently has raised its ugly head.

I am regularly testing my cholesterol and kidney function, as these are the areas I was told I would have problems in. The endo and dietician told me to expect increasing LDL because of increased saturated fats in the diet. They also told me that my kidney function would be compromised.

Two years into the low-carb way of eating, none of this has happened. My kidneys are working as well as ever. Which is not surprising because my protein consumption hasn't actually increased. I just get most of it from animal sources instead of grains. And my lipid profile also improved. HDL has gone up and LDL has gone down and Triglycerides are a lot lower. The net effect is a big reduction in heart disease. risk.

Clearly, I am getting good results from the low-carb way of eating. And I will continue with it for as long as I get results like this. I really don't care what any "expert" says about it. And all the other diabetics who are having a similar experience feel the same way. Visit the Bernstein forum if you want to meet some of them.


Cheers,

Mark

[seacomp]

Since then, my glycemic control has improved enormously. I have got my HBA1c down 6.5-7.0%.
You hit the nail right on the head Mark. To me there is only one question, although in two parts: Is it better to maintain your BG at or near non-diabetic normal?, and Does a Low-carb approach help you to do this?

[MarkMunday]

You hit the nail right on the head Mark. To me there is only one question, although in two parts: Is it better to maintain your BG at or near non-diabetic normal?, and Does a Low-carb approach help you to do this?
Normal blood sugar levels (70-90 mg/dl) are ideal and I don't think you will find a medical professional who disagrees with that. But most of them will hasten to add that if achieving near-normal blood sugars increases the risk of hypos, it isn't worth it. And I would have to agree with that. Hypos can be very dangerous. But the conventional medical wisdom is that near-normal blood sugars cannot be achieved without substantially increasing the risk of debilitating hypos. Which I believe is totally incorrect.

The trick is to remove blood sugar volatility. If you can stop your blood sugar jumping around, there is no reason why near-normal blood sugars can't be safely achieved. And removing blood sugar volatility is really not that difficult. It is simply a case of removing as much carbohydrate from the diet as possible.

So, yes, a low-carb diet helps to achieve near-normal blood sugars. And I don't believe near-normal blood sugars are achievable without going on a low-carb diet. Having said that, getting onto and maintaining a low-carb diet is challenging. And I, like most people on this journey, have had to compromise. The result is that, while glycemic control has improved a lot, I haven't yet achieved the stable near-normal blood sugars I really want.

My biggest challenge is that the low-carb diet caused an unwanted rapid loss of weight. I increased my consumption of fat to the point where I was feeling sick, and it didn't make any difference. Apparently the consumption of carbohydrate causes the production of an enzyme (hormone sensitive lipase, I think) that enables the body to store fat. And I needed more of it. So I have re-introduced carbs into my diet to the point where my weight has stabilised.

Most of my carbs come from fruit, which I eat at times of the day when my blood sugar needs to be supported. The result is that I am injecting somewhat more insulin than I would like to. But it is a very workable compromise. My blood sugar levels are acceptable, I am not having hypos, and I feel like I am in control

So the answer to both your questions is a very definite "yes". Normal blood sugars are the ideal we should all be working towards. And a low-carb diet makes them possible. We all need to compromise here and there. But the best way to achieve any outcome is to set ambitious targets.

Cheers,

Mark

[labob]

I'll bet myraj never suspected that an innocent question about post-breakfast glucose levels would engender such a spirited debate! Congratulations, myraj, on sparking such an interesting discussion on your very first post!

Whether you come out on the side of Dr. Bernstein or the ADA with respect to total carbohydrate consumption, it's definitely been my experience as a newbie (diagnosed 3 months ago today) that to keep your glucose levels on target, you have to monitor how many and what kind of carbs you eat at any given sitting. I base this on the 7-8 readings I take each day (which might seem excessive for a type 2, but as I've mentioned in other posts, I presented with a glucose level of over 1,000 and an A1c of 13.4, which by watching, but not eliminating, carbs, I was able to reduce to 10.2 in less than a month -- I'm keeping my fingers crossed for my next A1c in April).

For now, I probably end up somewhere in between the Bernstein and ADA camps, though I would bet that I'm a little closer to the ADA. I probably don't eat quite as many grains and starches as the ADA recommends, but I do eat an almost insane amount of vegetables (more than the 3-5 servings a day on the ADA pyramid). I've just found, through experimentation and testing, that I can't keep my glucose levels on target if I eat all the daily servings of grains and starches that the ADA recommends, no matter how I space them out. Like Mark, though, that doesn't mean that I make up for it in protein. I just eat more veggies, which of course are carbs, but they don't have nearly the same effect on me as grains or starches. I do eat carbs at every meal, though, and even have a granola bar now and then if I'm going to be staying late at work.

So I guess what I've taken away from this discussion is that experimentation and flexibility are key. I'm still trying to figure out what works for me. If adding some protein and subtracting some carbs from your breakfast give you better results than you're currently getting, that's what you should do. If you're like me and don't want to cook (or, when it comes down to it, even eat) in the morning, there might be other ways to achieve an acceptable compromise and keep your morning readings on target, even if your breakfast is all carbs, like mine is. Just keep trying different things, and like Mark says, don't be afraid to think outside the box.

[robeer33]

Mine does the same thing occasionaly.. Never do i go that high ever the rest of the day but only after i eat breakfast... It is really odd even though i take enough insulin or more to cover i usally go high

[Peter Lee]

This has to be a joke, Sorry info rthe info greendavid, but Lo-Carb works wonders for BG control.


Carbs is what affects us most no matter what Flavor of diabetes you have.
Not in all situations it doesn't and it doesn't in my case.

For me as a Type 2 the trick is to eat complex carbohydrates - a little and often (5 meals/snacks a day) so that the release of glucose into the blood stream is at a rate that my system can cope with.

Before the powerful cocktail of drugs I take had fully come into effect, if I ate low/no carbohydrate I got a severe liver dump and my glucose levels went up.

Now, if I eat low/no carbohydrate I am in danger of going hypo.

My problem, which I believe is common to Type 2s not on insulin, is that I cannot adjust my medication to suit my carbohydrate intake. What I have to do is to balance my carbohydrate intake with my physical (and sometimes, mental) activity whilst judging what my medication is going to do with the result.

The only part of my medication that I can vary according to circumstances is the Gliclazide, which I don't take if I'm very physically active.

In this game we cannot talk in sweeping generalities.