Losing too much weight?

[Ronin]

Hi Everybody!

A lot of you already know about me and my recent diagnosis of "Pre-Diabetes" (which seems to have some political implications as well as medical).

As I have mentioned I've gone to grazing and it is working considering my BG readings which are heading below the mystical-magical 100 level for my two key measurements (Pre-Bed and FBG). Daytimes are in the low 100's following meals.

One side benefit of grazing as well as eliminating a lot of obvious carbs has been a rather dramatic loss of weight. Last fall, when I started this journey I was 175 lbs. By February when I had my HgA1C done (result 5.1) I was down to 165 lbs. However, my numbers still were not where I thought they should be so more adjustments, and more testing. And the weight keeps dropping. I'm down to 155 lbs. Frankly, I'm getting just a bit nervous because I have yet to have a really low BG even while tandeming/bicycling. (Note: We are aggessive riders who go all out frequently and really burn the calories.)

At 6' and 155 lbs. all the charts say that I'm fine. I know I've reduced my daily caloric intake by at least 40% so weight should come off. Oh yes, it's all fat loss -- the muscle mass is just fine as I still bicycle daily and Bowflex three times a week and have not experienced any weakness there.

Your collective wisdom is solicited.

[Cinnabon]

One side benefit of grazing as well as eliminating a lot of obvious carbs has been a rather dramatic loss of weight. Last fall, when I started this journey I was 175 lbs.

I believe that cut of carbs is the cause for this, since high blood sugar is the common cause for such weight loss.

[Cyborg]

You could add more good fat to your diet. It will add calories, slow digestion, and not raise your bg.

[Ronin]

Cybor, et al.,

Fats. No, I don't think so. I spent over 20 years getting my fat intake down to next to zilch (actually < 15 grams per day maximum with some days closer to zero). My liver just loves to make cholesterol if I give it any appreciable amount of fat.

I tried increasing portion sizes a bit today and the result was about 10 points higher in BG.

Guess I'm gonna get skinny.

[Cyborg]

I thought you didn't want to get skinny. I don't understand the intent of your post?

What's wrong with healthy fats like avocados, olives, etc.?

[seacomp]

Frankly, I'm getting just a bit nervous because I have yet to have a really low BG even while tandeming/bicycling. (Note: We are aggessive riders who go all out frequently and really burn the calories.)
When I was on a very low carb diet I used to go low when exercising or missed a meal, but most Type 2s will not go low no matter how much they exercise. I don't see anything to be nervous about there.
On your weight, I would think most people would be envious! Eating a bit more meat with associated fat should stablize you. If it doesn't, there might be a problem, not necessarily on the diabetic side of things.
I'd try it (more meat) before getting too worried.

[Ronin]

Cyborg, et al.,

I am concerned about the weight loss because it isn't stopping. At the same time to my mind all fats are inherently evil. Keep in mind that this is a mindset developed over a third of a lifetime of battling hyper-cholesterol. Through diet and exercsie I got down to ideal cholesterol levels (low 170's) managed by a mere 5mg of Zocor daily. More fat means that the cholesterol goes up again. I guess I could go to 10mg of Zocor and some additional fats...

My next blood work is scheduled in April. I guess I'll have a more complete story when those results come in. I'm just hoping the weight loss stops around where it is today.

Seacomp says that "...most Type 2s will not go low no matter how much they exercise." I never knew that. I have seen pretty good drops in my BG following an exercise session. I attributed that to my body using the BG for activity. Am I missing something?

[seacomp]

Seacomp says that "...most Type 2s will not go low no matter how much they exercise." I never knew that. I have seen pretty good drops in my BG following an exercise session. I attributed that to my body using the BG for activity. Am I missing something?
My understanding is that it is the external insulin that T1s and insulin-dependant T2s take that normally cause lows. Otherwise, in most cases, the homostatic mechanisms that control BG still function well enough to kept people from lows.
The exercise will drive higher BG levels down to a normal range, then the liver will kick in and maintain BG from going any lower.
In another thread, someone explained the "hitting the wall" thing that athletes can experience as the liver reaching the end of it's ability to maintain BG levels. I don't know about this, but it seems feasible to me. Others can help out here.

[duck]

Not all fats are evil...

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=532

[Ronin]

Seacomp, et al.,

In his response Seacomp wrote: "The exercise will drive higher BG levels down to a normal range, then the liver will kick in and maintain BG from going any lower."

If I understand this, my body has a "set-point" where it likes the BG to remain regardless of what I do with diet, exercise or the two combined. That leads to the question of this whole thing being more genetic than anything else.

On the other hand, as I've been tracking the BG levels before exercise, after exercise and pre-bed (as well as a FBG first thing in the AM), on days when I get a good hard workout, the BG levels will drop to the mid 90's (actually scored one 85 recently). Pre workout numbers are usually in the 120's.

The full blood work I have had usually requires that I'm off my bicycle a day or two before the blood test as the series includes a PSA test and riding the bike before a PSA test drives that number through the roof. I could try running, but my knees are a wreck from running a long time ago as well as hyper-extensive joints that are a real mess from the pounding.

Without exercise I never drop below 100.

I guess the real question is now: Am I pre-Diabetic, or a full blown Type-2 considering that a combination of food control and exercise keep my BG in a somewhat elevated but "normal" range.

[seacomp]

I guess the real question is now: Am I pre-Diabetic, or a full blown Type-2 considering that a combination of food control and exercise keep my BG in a somewhat elevated but "normal" range.
Is it really a question? No matter what the answer is won't you continue doing the same that you're doing? And that's not bad.
If you're pre-diabetic you possibly can continue as you are indefinately, if not, you will eventually have to take medication.
In my personal opinion, there's no difference in the disease process between the two although there may be a difference in the prognosis.
To my understanding (which is not the same as the medical definition), Type 2 starts when the body has to produce more insulin that "normal" to metabolize a given amount of glucose.
This begins to happen years before there is any elevation of BG. Usually there is increased obesity associated with the increased insulin production. The obesity is a co-factor in the progression of the disease since it increases insulin resistance. (Which means that obesity is NOT a risk factor for diabetes but a symptom of the early stages of the disease.)
In your case, you have dealt successfully (too successfully?) with the obesity issue, so you are ahead of the game there.
But you are past the first stage of the disease in that there now is mild elevation of BG, which can be controlled by lowering carbs and exercise.
I am not sure that it is really known what are all the factors that govern if and at what rate the disease progresses. Although, it is certainly the case that keeping as normal BGs as possible reduces complications.
While there are doctors who would agree with this evaluation, beware; it isn't the common accepted consensus explanation within the medical profession.
Sorry for the lenght of this reply.:ahhhhh:

[Ronin]

Seacomp, et al.,

No reason to apologize for the length of the response. I, and I hope others, appreciate the candor and compassion you expressed.

If I intrepert your response: my previous life style (wherein I ate a lot of carbs) is no longer desireable and can be dangerous to my long term health. I'm, if you will, at the top of the proverbial "slipery slope" and will start down if I continue to overdo the carbs.

Therefore, I now understand the "Pre-Diabetic" classification as more of an incipient Type-2 who currently does not require medication to control BG levels but may, at some time in the future, require medications to control BG levels.

The good news is that this morning my meter recorded a 92 FBG. And that's pretty good considering.

[seacomp]

The good news is that this morning my meter recorded a 92 FBG. And that's pretty good considering.
Nah! That's near excellent!:biggrin:

Most of what I know about carbs comes from Dr. Richard Burnstein. He has a web site, but I first read his book about Type 2 a little over 10 years ago. Try your library, or interlibrary loan to take a look at it.

Atkins also has a book on diabetes and low carb, but it didn't impress me much. Atkins in general never did. He was a society doctor (Bernstein is an engineer).