Havin trouble with pasta

[Alaska]

I am having a hard time counting my pasta carbs. The package read as follows.........1/2 inch circle dry..............what the **** does this mean?........lolI counted what I THOUGHT would be the correct carb count but obviously I was WAY wrong since my BS reading told me so. How do you count pasta?

[Tony]

Before I cook the pasta, I put the pasta on the scale.

I have 3 servings. Each serving for the pasta I have is 42carbs per serving.

Having a total amount of 126 carbs.

[am1977]

This is what I've been told by me diabetes educator/ dietician...1 cup of cooked pasta has about 45 carbs in it. I know that there are lots of different types of pasta, and this is kind of general, but if you measure out a cup or whatever amt you want and adjust your insulin accordingly you should do ok. However, everyone is different and different foods can impact your bs in different ways. Pasta is one of those foods that usually make my bs spike too.

[HeatherP]

I have a hard time predicting my pasta carbs, too. Sometimes it works and sometimes it don't. I don't know how true this is, but I read somewhere that if you overcook the pasta, it shoots the sugar content up drastically.

[rzrbks]

am1977

This is what I've been told by me diabetes educator/ dietician...1 cup of cooked pasta has about 45 carbs in it. =3 units per cup of pasghetti and meat bulbs, or most any pasta

this is the scale I go with, almost the same as Tony's, and if I measured right, I, usually, am just fine


I'm having problems with Chili. You have to have crackers in your chili, right? Well, smart me, I sometimes forget to count the crackers as I break them into the chili and KAZANGO either way too high, like tonight or oopsie and Crash low

[Andrea]

Originally posted by Tony
Having a total amount of 126 carbs.

Tony,

Can i ask how much insulin you take for that much carb at one meal? That souds like an insanely huge portion to me, but then again, i am a girl with a tiny appetite. :) I was at my boyfriend's parents' house this weekend and his mum is an excellent cook. We eat a little too well while we are there and i couldn't believe that in one meal i had 100 g of carbs! I don't try to limit myself, but i generally don't have more than 60g at any one sitting. I was so full after that meal that i took a 2 hour nap!

But in general, for pasta i do the same as you - pop it on the scale before i cook it. This works well for me, but i am not always good about guessing the carb content of the sauce!

Andrea

[Alaska]

My carbs run anywhere from 30 to 150 a meal, just depends on what I'm eating of course but when I'm hungry I eat a lot.

Dave

[Tony]

Andrea,

For 126 carbs I Bolus 6.3units.

20/1 at night and 25/1 during the day.

That same night I ended up eating more. I must of had any where from 60 to 100 carbs more.

I only weigh 155 pounds and I can pack down some food.

I must have problems!

[Alaska]

Then Tony, you and I have the same problem. I'm 148 lbs
I challenge you to an eating contest!!! :D

[Tony]

Originally posted by _ALASKA_
Then Tony, you and I have the same problem. I'm 148 lbs
I challenge you to an eating contest!!! :D

LOL...


Your on. But this contest may not be good for our Diabetes.:eek:

[Andrea]

Holy schmoley Tony - that is a lot of food! As i said, i don't limit myself purposely, but i just can't eat that much at one sitting! I usually don't have much more than 160g carb in the whole day! Maybe that is why i am always hungry...hmmm....

You are also quite sensitive to insulin. Do you find that your insulin to carb ratio changes at all when the overall quantity of your food changes? Do you think it would still be 1:25 in the day if you had a snack of 25g vs a dinner with 200g of carb?

Andrea

[Tony]

During the day i don't eat as much as I do at night.

I don't think my insulin to carb ratio changes with the quantity of food I eat. But I do notice sometimes when I eat out it seem like i'm not taking enough insulin. I had a bagel one morning and I know those bagels have 75carbs. I took 3units. I corrected a few times that day but my sugar didn't come down till that night. I was done for the whole day.

[rzrbks]

Tony

But I do notice sometimes when I eat out it seem like i'm not taking enough insulin. I had a bagel one morning and I know those bagels have 75carbs. I took 3units. I corrected a few times that day but my sugar didn't come down till that night. I was done for the whole day.

I have noticed the same thing. When I eat out, even though I have checked the Carb count at restaurant's web site, I seem to miss wth how much insulin I take and it through me off for the day too.

Generally, I do better when I "guesstimate" the amount of carbs rather than take the Co.'s word for it.

[notme]

WOW! I wish I had your carbohydrate to insulin ratio! I have a ratio of 6 to 1. For every 6g of carbo's I eat, I take one unit of insulin. I try to limit my carbohydrates to about 90 per day TOPS. Usually it is less. I am always battling weight even with that lower amount of carbo consumption. I am female 5'7" and about 150 pounds. I would give anything to be able to eat a few more carbs and take a little less insulin, but I can't.

As for the bagels I can't eat them at all unless I do a dual wave bolus to cover them. For one bagel (they usually have 40 carbs in one whole one) I would take about six units of insulin up front and then square wave about 2 units over a two hour period. For some reason bagels come back and bite you again about two hours later. I also square wave for pizza and it works perfectly. (Don't eat that to often either).

Nancy

[Shalyndria]

ALASKA,
Hmmm, 1/2 inch circle...now is that radius, circumference or diameter?! LOL you poor sucker! If you and Tony have an eating contest, I want to be the judge!! He eats as much-if not more-at one meal than I eat all day!!

I must have problems!
And here I don't even have to say anything to that one...it's self explanatory...:-

Nancy,
I'm similar to you. I'm 5'2", 125 lbs. (yikes-**** this pump that made me gain 10 lbs!!) and my CHO ratio is 1:5 generally. My Dr. figures it's because I was only on NovoRapid when I was on MDI; no backround basal during the day. NPH only at night.

[Andrea]

Originally posted by Shalyndria
my CHO ratio is 1:5 generally. My Dr. figures it's because I was only on NovoRapid when I was on MDI; no backround basal during the day. NPH only at night.

Shylandria,

Has that changed at all since you are now on the pump? Do you take more basal insulin now?

I am 5'3" and weigh 135 and my insulin to carb ratio is 1:17. And even at that, there are times when my blood sugar is on the low side before a meal and purposely underestimate my carbs because i know that my ratio is sometimes closer to 1:20.

Andrea

[notme]

I am jealous Andrea. Wonder why some people have such a great ratio and others like me and Shylandria have such a low one? I wish mine was better. I have to eat very small in order to keep the blood sugar in target range. Darn darn darn

Nancy

[Andrea]

Nancy,

I honestly don't think that the individual differences in insulin to carb ratios can be considered good or bad. We are all different in our sensitivity to insulin and in our needs for it to make sure our blood glucose levels stay within our target range as much of the time as possible. The right or "good" amount of insulin is the amount that acheives that.

Average TDDs (total daily doses) for people with type 1 are anywhere from 0.5 to 1.0 units per kilogram body weight per day. So if you weigh 60 kg (132 lbs), a normal amount of insulin to take in one day is anywhere from 30 to 60 units.

Can you eat more if you take more insulin? Or can you eat more frequent meals if you keep the size of the meals small?

Andrea

[Belinda]

For pasta I have to do a dual bolus where I take 1/2 of the amount when I eat and take the other 1/2 over a period of 2-3 hours depending on the time and what else I am eating.


Tony and ALASKA
An eating contest...talking about throwing your diabetes a wrench...good thing you are both on the pump! LOL I would love to see that!

[Alaska]

Belinda.........
For the sake of science I'm willing to do this eating contest and just use my pump. But.....as for Tony, I couldn't allow myself to put him in such danger so for the sake of saftey I have arranged for Tony insulin supositories.... Yes, I care about his saftey THAT much. Gee, hope it doesn't put a dampner on how much he could eat for the contest.

[notme]

Hi Andrea,

The reason I call it a "good" ratio is the fact that some people can take less insulin and eat more. My ratio is "bad" for me because the more insulin I take, the more weight I gain. I am in the average weight size you posted. My total daily use of insulin is between 35 units (but more like) 50 units per day. If I eat more carbs and take more insulin to cover, I will just gain weight. So my carb intake must be very low per day. I would love to be able to eat a whole sandwich at lunch or potatoes at dinner. This isn't possible without taking large amounts of insulin. So......I wish my ratio was more like 22 to 1.

Nancy

[Andrea]

Hi Nancy,

The same goes for just about anyone, regardless of their insulin to carb ratio. If i eat more calories than what my body needs, i gain weight too. It isn't my insulin to carb ratio that determines the amount of carb that i eat. Everyone, even people without diabetes, need to watch amounts to watch their waistline.

It isn't the amount of insulin you take that causes weight gain (unless you are taking so much that you are going low a lot and therefore eating extra to compensate).

One thing that can help with increasing insulin sensitivity is (yes, i know, the word nobody wants to hear)... exercise.

Andrea

[notme]

Andrea, I agree that the more people eat the more weight they gain. However, what I am saying is because the ratio is low, I can eat far less with taking more insulin. Insulin IS a fat producing hormone. As far as exercise goes, I kayak or rollerblade or workout daily. I have tried to boost my metabolism by exercise. After talking to my endo about the weight gain issue, his idea was boosting my metabolism. The one thing that is helping me a bit is taking Evening Primrose.

One of the odd ones here that love to exercise!

Nancy

[notme]

Hey Andrea, Here are a couple of sites that explain the use of insulin and weight gain.

http://medical.slim-fast.com/pdf/medications_that_cause_weight_gain.pdf

http://medical.slim-fast.com/pdf/medications_that_cause_weight_gain.pdf

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:ituWUzIT9OwJ:www.businesswire.com/webbox/bw.062301/211

742001.htm+Humalog+weight+gain&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:7h6gBIy9e80J:www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/2581F492BA778F50852568D300586BA7+Humalog+weight+ga in&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Hope this helps.

Nancy

[Andrea]

Hi Nancy,

I am well aware of the purpose of the hormone insulin in the body. I have a degree in human biology with quite a few courses in nutritional biochemistry. Any of us who have experienced a diagnosis of type 1 diabetes know all too well that when we don't have enough insulin, we lose weight, and we lose it quickly.

The articles you referred to talk about weight gain as a side effect of treatment on insulin. Nowhere does it explain, physiologically, that appropriate amounts of insulin cause excess weight gain. Usually, the reason that weight gain is a potential side effect of exhaugenous insulin is that the doses are not adapted appropriately for the individual and/or balanced with the appropriate meal plan for that individual.

The insulin only does its job of using and storing the calories that we consume. If we consume more carbs and calories than we need for immediate use, we obviously need extra insulin or that extra energy (glucose) will stay in the blood stream. So we take extra insulin to cover the extra carbs and it does its job of storing that extra energy for future use (and hence the weight gain).

Calories are a unit of energy. We need energy to live (stay awake, walk around, think, do our daily tasks). We then need extra energy if we are doing any extra physical exertion. If we consume more calories than our body needs to do these things, then those calories (that energy) is stored incase it is needed at a later time. Insulin is just the tool that allows the energy to be used immediately or stored for later use.

Some people are more sensitive than others to insulin and require less insulin to do that job of allowing energy to be used or stored. Likewise, people who are less sensitive to insulin need more to make sure the job is done. In either case, the amount of insulin used and the amount of food (and obviously especially carb) eaten, need to be carefully balanced to keep blood glucose levels stable. But the amount of food (and carbs) eaten also need to be balanced with our energy needs. You obviously eat enough to meet your energy needs, or you wouldn't be able to continue with that much daily physical activity.

I can understand why you would want to eat more and not gain weight, but all i am trying to say is that this is independant of your insulin sensitivity. We have seen by our insulin to carb ratios that i am more sensitive to insulin than you. But i can promise you that if i start to eat bigger portions at my meals than normal, i start to gain weight very quickly too.

Towards the beginning of this thread i talked about some big meals that i ate at my boyfriend's parents' house a couple of weekends ago. I ate way more than i was used to (100g of carb instead of my regular 40-60 for a few meals) and over the weekend i gained 3 pounds!

Andrea

[notme]

I would jump up and down if I could eat 40-60 carbs per meal and only take 2-3 units of insulin! I am talking about eating 20-30 carbs a meal, taking 3-6 units of insulin and gaining weight! I have NO degree in human biology but I know what I have read and I know what I have experienced. Look at all these degrees.

I have said all that I am going to say on this subject. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.

DSI Newsletters, Issue 30:
Insulin: A Bad Hormone!

 Insulin does more than just reduce blood sugar:

Promotes Fat Storage
Increases Salt & Water Retention
Increases Cholesterol Production
Burns the arterial wall similar to cigarettes and promotes arteriosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)
Weight Gain
 So, the goal in diabetes is to have a normal blood sugar with the least amount of insulin as possible.

Joseph Saponaro, MD, DABIM, FACP, CPI, CCRI, CCRC, CCRP
Board Certified Internist, JPMC
Principal Investigator, DSI
Diplomat American Board of Internal Medicine
Fellow American College of Physicians
Certified Physician Investigator by the AAPP
Certified Clinical Research Investigator by the ACRP
Certified Clinical Research Coordinator by the ACRP
Certified Clinical Research Professional by SoCRA
Member: The American College of Preventive Medicine

Intensive Insulin Therapy Increases Obesity


Patients with type 1 diabetes who take multiple insulin injections each day may lower their risk of nerve damage and blindness, but such intensive therapy may also put them at increased risk of obesity.

According to researchers, adults who treated their disease with multiple daily insulin injections or continuous infusion were more likely to become overweight after 6 years.

This group gained an average of 9.5 pounds more than patients who took one or two insulin shots a day. The weight gain translated into an increase in body mass index (BMI) of 1.5 for men and 1.8 for women.

BMI, which takes into account a person's weight in relation to their height, is considered a more accurate measure of overweight and obesity than body weight alone. A person with a BMI of at least 25 is considered overweight and one with a BMI of 30 and above is considered obese.

Previous research has shown that intensive insulin therapy can lower the risk of some of the medical complications associated with type 1 diabetes. However, it may also lead to severe hypoglycemia -- a significant drop in blood sugar -- and weight gain.

The results show that weight gain was most rapid in the first year. Although the rate of weight gain slowed in subsequent years, patients did not shed any pounds, even after 9 years. Women tended to put on weight at a faster rate than men did, and women treated intensively tended to gain weight in their abdomens.

Abdominal obesity, the authors note, is believed to be a risk factor for heart disease.

Intensive therapy for type 1 diabetes produces substantial excess weight gain compared with conventional therapy. However, the additional weight appears to include lean tissue as well as fat.

Dr. Joseph Mercola

DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT:

Insulin is absolutely inappropriate for all type two diabetics. Type one diabetics, unlike type two diabetics, require insulin or they will die.

I would not have expected this result, but it is clear that even in type one diabetics insulin will cause weight gain.

This is a powerful example for non-diabetics. Eating foods that cause your body to make more insulin will increase your risk of gaining weight, pure and simple.

That is not the only problem with excess insulin. It will accelerate the aging process and increase the risk of virtually all chronic illnesses.

[rzrbks]

I don't want to start a fight BUT

indiscriminate use of the BMI is just Real Wrong . You have to take into account the body structure as well, which can move you from Ok to overweight to obese if you're not very careful.

When I had my heart attack, (according to the BMI chart, I was a 24 which is almost overweight), the Drs. were adamant about me being underweight to point of being unhealthy

But

the weight the Drs. wanted me at was 26-28 according to the chart, when I got to 27 my Cardiologist was happy that I was at the proper weight:( for my body type.:D

I stay at 28 which is just right according to both PCP and CDE

[Shalyndria]

Andrea,
My basal rate throughout the day is of course more than when I was on MDI, since I never had a basal then. I only took NovoRapid during the day and NPH only at night. So my usage of insulin is significantly more than when I was injecting. Strangely enough, however, my TDD is less than that of when I was on MDI, even with such a high CHO ratio.

Nancy,
Could your weight gain maybe be attributed to a slower metabolism? It may sound crazy, but do you think perhaps it has nothing to do with insulin at all? As far as I'm aware, insulin is only a fat-storing hormone when you are chasing hypo's around all the time, as Andrea has said.

[Andrea]

Nancy,

I don't disagree with anything that is written in the first quote of your message (EXCEPT where it says that insulin is a BAD hormone - there would be no life without insulin). It is abolutely true that a possible side effect when taking insulin by injection (or pump) and trying to keep blood glucose levels within target ranges as much of the time as possible is weight gain. And this is because the lower your blood sugar, the higher the risk of hypoglycemia which means the need for more CALORIE intake.

As i said, insulin's job is to help us use and store the calories we eat. For people with type 1 diabetes, when our individual meal plans are well balanced and appropriate for our metabolic needs and subsequently our insulin is well dosed to match our meal plan and our metabolic needs, weight gain is not an issue. But we are all different and so are our metabolic needs.

From what you have described of your situation, it seems perfectly normal to me. When i compare my meal plan to other peoples' i also see huge differences. Tony described a meal with 126 g of carb worth of pasta at the beginning of this thread. I couldn't imagine how heavy i would be if i ate that much at every meal! I have learned where my body's limits are and i try to stick to them.

I disagree with the "Dr Mercola's comment" that you posted. Type 2 diabetes is a progressive disease and beta cell function decreases with time. There comes a point where there simply isn't enough insulin made by the pancreas to keep blood glucose levels stable. The majority of people with type 2 will need to go on insulin eventually.

If it were true that "Eating foods that cause your body to make more insulin will increase your risk of gaining weight, pure and simple." then everyone (with diabetes or not) who got a majority of their calories from carbs would be overweight, and we know that is simply not the case.

Andrea

[Gina]

my doctor just made me go from a 1:15 carb ratio to 1:10 im having such a hard time right now with my blood sugars...i have stayed away from all kinds of real starchy foods especially pasta...bread cereal and you guys know what else hahah...pasta is the worst though....but thats not even my worst enemy....

[magicboop]

Whole wheat pasta has a lower glycemic index. It won't spike your bs.

It's very good too.

I believe that carbs = diabetes. If you stop eating bread, pasta, potatoes and white rice, white flour, and anything else with high sugar/carbs, your bs will be better. Maybe not normal, but better.

[statdeac]

I tried some low carb (soy based) pasta recently that I got at one of those organic foods grocery stores. It was kinda tasteless, but if you put a good sauce on it's not so bad.

[HeatherP]

Yuck. I'm probably going to have to go on a GF diet pretty soon, so I'm going to enjoy the good stuff while I still can!

[Andrea]

Heather,

There is lots of good gf pasta out there (Ancient Harvest, BiAglut, Tinkinyada...). Of course none of it is low carb though. Most of the rice and corn pastas out there are higher in carb than wheat pasta, but if you count your carbs carefully and calculate your insulin to carb ratio well, then eating gf pasta is no more triky than eating gluten-full pasta.

:)

Andrea