[Stuboy]

Are there any CGMS systems available in the UK? Not just for clinic purposes (where you just wear it for three days for the nurse to see) but for everyday personal use.

I know you guys in the US can get them but i've not seen any UK people talking about this... I often get the "testing burnout" phase, and i think that could be resolved with CGMS.

I remember asking my practice nurse about CGMS when i first met with her and she didn't seem to know a great deal.

So i just wondering if anyone know if it's available in the UK and/or on the NHS? if not on the NHS can you buy them and get supplies on the NHS?

[Gary_W]

Hi Stuboy,

They are available on the NHS, but you have to show clinical need. I have not known anyone yet able to show clinical need to have one funded permanently.

When I went along to my pump clinic for the first time, I met another patient who was keen to have one. She asked our pump nurse and was told 'not a chance due to the cost'; apparantly our PCT won't fund them. And this is a PCT that WILL fund pumps, so this tells you a little about your chances elsewhere. Our clinic does have a loaner, but short term loans are all that are possible.

Cost wise, the monitor itself is around £500 I'm told. The problem is the sensors which come in at £50 each and only last for 3 days (again, I've no experience of these things first hand so if anyone wants to set me straight on how long they last etc then please do). You can indeed self fund, but you're looking at £6k per year if you're planning on wearing the sensors constantly. If you just want to wear it occasionally to sort out problems then it may be viable, but it's still throwing £50 at a problem that you MAY be able to sort out with basal testing. If you don't wish to self fund you'll need to show clinical need.

Getting tired of doing finger sticks is not clinical need; we're all tired of that. You would have to demonstrate all kinds of problems that you cannot address with finger sticks to be considered. And then their first port of call would be to suggest pumping with fingersticks; the consumables come in at a 1/4 the cost of the CGMS consumables and the clinical benefit of pump + fingersticks is highly likely to outweigh the benefits of CGMS + MDI. You do still have to do fingersticks with CGMS as well, just (hopefully!) not as often.

Gary

[ant hill]

Yeah I woulder I can get that here too in Australia. I would be very interested how my BG's are when I walk, Eat, Drink alcolhol and other things that influence BG's.

[shiftzor]

Originally Posted by Gary_W

Hi Stuboy,

They are available on the NHS, but you have to show clinical need. I have not known anyone yet able to show clinical need to have one funded permanently.

When I went along to my pump clinic for the first time, I met another patient who was keen to have one. She asked our pump nurse and was told 'not a chance due to the cost'; apparantly our PCT won't fund them. And this is a PCT that WILL fund pumps, so this tells you a little about your chances elsewhere. Our clinic does have a loaner, but short term loans are all that are possible.

Cost wise, the monitor itself is around £500 I'm told. The problem is the sensors which come in at £50 each and only last for 3 days (again, I've no experience of these things first hand so if anyone wants to set me straight on how long they last etc then please do). You can indeed self fund, but you're looking at £6k per year if you're planning on wearing the sensors constantly. If you just want to wear it occasionally to sort out problems then it may be viable, but it's still throwing £50 at a problem that you MAY be able to sort out with basal testing. If you don't wish to self fund you'll need to show clinical need.

Getting tired of doing finger sticks is not clinical need; we're all tired of that. You would have to demonstrate all kinds of problems that you cannot address with finger sticks to be considered. And then their first port of call would be to suggest pumping with fingersticks; the consumables come in at a 1/4 the cost of the CGMS consumables and the clinical benefit of pump + fingersticks is highly likely to outweigh the benefits of CGMS + MDI. You do still have to do fingersticks with CGMS as well, just (hopefully!) not as often.

Gary

Out of Interest where is your PCT? Might be useful in case uk people have trouble getting pumps . As for CGM I definitely agree that they would stop the burnout phase, i discussed this with my gp which she agreed to the concept but of course she’s not going to fund it. Sometimes I wish we had communism at least then we wouldn't have to "pay" over the odds for pumps/CGMs .

[Stuboy]

that's disheatening!!

I have no clinical NEED for one, i just think if they weren't so uneccessarly expensive we could all lead much better, easier and hassel free lives!!

It's so frustrating see people in other countries get better support and getting all the neat technologies but we're left to suffer unless we're on deaths door for the good stuff!

I hate it! *sob*

[Gary_W]

Originally Posted by Stuboy

that's disheatening!!

I have no clinical NEED for one, i just think if they weren't so uneccessarly expensive we could all lead much better, easier and hassel free lives!!

It's so frustrating see people in other countries get better support and getting all the neat technologies but we're left to suffer unless we're on deaths door for the good stuff!

I hate it! *sob*

That's not really the case; in the USA, you only get the CGMS with decent insurance and reading various posts on this board the guys over the pond seem to have a pretty healthy fight for them as well even if they have that kind of insurance. If you're not paying through the nose for it in the US, you'll have a pretty miserable time. For every post I've seen on here about CGMS in the US, there is another about some poor guy who cannot afford test strips. I even saw one post where a T1 mother and her T1 child were sharing syringes. There are people who do not see a clinician from one year to the next because they can't afford it.

Over here, the theory is that clinical need leads the way, irrespective of your wealth. It does not work like that on an awful lot of occasions, but the theory is sound IMO. The good news is that we can ALL get insulin, test strips, pens, needles etc and don't have to pay a penny other than through tax and NI contributions. And if you don't work you still get them; the horror stories for the absolute essentials to manage our condition don't really exist over here (I'm sure someone will prove me wrong on this, as someone always falls through the net).

The bad news is that it stunts progress, and brings everyone down to the same low common denominator of a bare minimum of healthcare. The same thing that gets everyone reasonable help stops those that need it getting the extra help, hence pumps etc being so hard to come by on this side of the Atlantic.

I'll get off my soapbox now...

Gary

[Stuboy]

perhaps i've been seeing it in the wrong light.

I just can't wait for non-invasive glucose monitoring to become the norm.

Daily chors of diabetes getting me down at the moment, sorry!

[fgummett]

There is another thread where a recent documentary was mentioned... it was a US film entitled, "Sick Around the World" and the aim was to compare the US health system with other "rich" countries... Japan, Germany, UK, Taiwan and Switzerland as I recall. It turns out that the US system is the most expensive per capita in the World and yet only ranks 37th in overall performance... a rating of such things as infant mortality and life-expectancy. One of the key questions that was asked in each country was, "how many people went into bankruptcy last year as a result of health care costs?" It seem the US is the only country where that happens and sadly all to frequently. The UK's NHS actually came out looking pretty good although not the best by any means.

You can watch the full program on-line or read research materials here...

[HelenM]

Its similar here, health expenditure is higher than the UK (and a huge hole in the national budget) but GGMS are not normally available. My local hospital has 2 which they loan out for 14 days at a time.