Is ONE Unit of INSULIN Equal?

[Lloyd]

I get about a 10 point drop.

-Lloyd

[Cormac_Doyle]

Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...

[NewdestinyX]

Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg

WOW!! Now THAT'S what I call IR!!! That's unimaginable. And how does a Type 1.5 have that much IR anyway? I'm still pretty IR at 70lbs overweight -- but I still only need about 1 unit = 25-30point drop.

[ramon]

Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...

Good Lord thats crazy and its the first time Ive seen anything like this. Do they make a concentrated type of insulin and how often does this happen to you?

[andypoo]

I've found with me to do it this way I check bg,then I take 120 from that amount,and then I take 15 into that,and the multiply 7,because that is "MY RATIO",I have discovered.
So say if my bg is 180,minus 120= 70 ,divide by 15=4,then 4 times 7=28, so 28 units for me,brings it down to normal range,I can't say by what,because sometimes it's more efficient and some times it's not. Thats why you have to try and try again,until you reach your own "place". This is what has worked for me,for now.

[ramon]

I've found with me to do it this way I check bg,then I take 120 from that amount,and then I take 15 into that,and the multiply 7,because that is "MY RATIO",I have discovered.
So say if my bg is 180,minus 120= 70 ,divide by 15=4,then 4 times 7=28, so 28 units for me,brings it down to normal range,I can't say by what,because sometimes it's more efficient and some times it's not. Thats why you have to try and try again,until you reach your own "place". This is what has worked for me,for now.

Great formula, how did you come up with it and how long would it normally take for you to come down and to what final bg level? This is something Im still having a hard time with and don't fully understand. Your input is greatly appreciated.

[networkguy]

Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...

Did you typo?

[thediva]

This worked for *me*
I am type 2. I'm talking about quick acting humlog pen

At first
1. I went to a diabetic dietician and she figured out my sensitivity and she gave me a book that is a life saver he Calorie King Calorie Fat and Carborhydrate Counter. She entered my sensitivity level and carb:insulin ratio into this spreadsheet
http://www.integrateddiabetes.com/ga...ation_form.xls

So I have my handy pocket book and my spreadsheet. I go to a restaurant, look up my meal in the book figure out the carbs then give myself the dose I need based on the spreadsheet.

Then I found a little blurb on a website on how to figure out how much insulin you need. Try as I might, I can not find that site, but I remember what I did.

I waited until my BG was outside of normal. At the top of the hour, I gave myself 10 units of fast acting. I tested my BG every 1/2 after that. I did this several evenings in a row. I was able to determine that My BG went down approx 43 points(4.3 reduces it by 1 point) in an hour. So when I test and I see that my BG is say 240 and I want to be at 120, I know to reduce it by 120 points. I'm going to need 30 units. 43x3=129. this has not failed me yet and I've been doing it this way for a year.

I have not yet figure in lantus or metformin which is why I don't reduce it too far. I don't want to bring it down to 90 only for lantus or metformin kicking in and laying me flat.

[sarahspins]

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...

I realize this is old, but it's flat out wrong. A diabetic with no insulin resistance could expect 1u to drop them about 50mg/dL. A very thin T1 (or children) could expect more of a drop.. excess weight contributes to varying degrees of IR in everyone, so obviously if you are heavier, your ISF will be lower. I've actually heard it said that anything LESS than the standard 1:50 ratio is a sign of IR... it makes sense to me. It's kind of like the standard 1u for 15g CHO.. it works for some, but not for all.

Anyways, my ISF decreases as my BG rises.. so the corrections that work when I'm under 200 don't work as I go above 200, and especially over 300. One of the great things about my Ping is that it's really easy to override the ISF on the pump. I always override mine if I am really high, and almost always give a shot of what it calculated instead of a bolus if I am over 300.

[NewdestinyX]

This worked for *me*
I am type 2. I'm talking about quick acting humlog pen

At first
1. I went to a diabetic dietician and she figured out my sensitivity and she gave me a book that is a life saver he Calorie King Calorie Fat and Carborhydrate Counter. She entered my sensitivity level and carb:insulin ratio into this spreadsheet
http://www.integrateddiabetes.com/ga...ation_form.xls

So I have my handy pocket book and my spreadsheet. I go to a restaurant, look up my meal in the book figure out the carbs then give myself the dose I need based on the spreadsheet.

Then I found a little blurb on a website on how to figure out how much insulin you need. Try as I might, I can not find that site, but I remember what I did.

I waited until my BG was outside of normal. At the top of the hour, I gave myself 10 units of fast acting. I tested my BG every 1/2 after that. I did this several evenings in a row. I was able to determine that My BG went down approx 43 points(4.3 reduces it by 1 point) in an hour. So when I test and I see that my BG is say 240 and I want to be at 120, I know to reduce it by 120 points. I'm going to need 30 units. 43x3=129. this has not failed me yet and I've been doing it this way for a year.

I have not yet figure in lantus or metformin which is why I don't reduce it too far. I don't want to bring it down to 90 only for lantus or metformin kicking in and laying me flat.

Wow --- that spreadsheet is AMAZING!!! SO helpful. I know my I:C ratio -- but how do you calculate SENSITIVITY and EXERCISE FACTOR? And I wonder how the Lantus would factor into it. Well Lantus ONLY affects fasting numbers.... so it shouldn't be in the equation at all I think.. Anybody have any insight on that?

Thanks for the chart.. Looks like I can adapt it for myself and change the numbers..

[NewdestinyX]

I realize this is old, but it's flat out wrong. A diabetic with no insulin resistance could expect 1u to drop them about 50mg/dL. A very thin T1 (or children) could expect more of a drop.. excess weight contributes to varying degrees of IR in everyone, so obviously if you are heavier, your ISF will be lower. I've actually heard it said that anything LESS than the standard 1:50 ratio is a sign of IR... it makes sense to me. It's kind of like the standard 1u for 15g CHO.. it works for some, but not for all.

Anyways, my ISF decreases as my BG rises.. so the corrections that work when I'm under 200 don't work as I go above 200, and especially over 300. One of the great things about my Ping is that it's really easy to override the ISF on the pump. I always override mine if I am really high, and almost always give a shot of what it calculated instead of a bolus if I am over 300.

Interesting. Hey -- as I read the Type 1 subforum -- I often see you guys talking about numbers around 200 and 300. Is that a common occurrence as a T1. We T2's are very, very cautious of 'any number' above 140 at any time of the day and work to never get above that -- some -- don't like ANY number over 100. Isn't there a way, especially with a pump, that a T1 can control their blood glucose levels within a much tighter range - -let's say 90-120 and say goodbye to 200's forever and never again see a 300?

Or is that just impossible...?

[jenb]

Well Grant, if every T1 diabetic could have a crystal ball that informed them of every metabolic function extant at every moment in time, and could be on the money with bolus dose and timing at every meal, and could intuit any inflammatory response going on internally...you know...the stuff your original equipment handles so well, then we'd all have perfect blood sugar. So far though, I haven't been 100% accurate at replacing the original equipment with the currently available after-market stuff. Just like T2's, we all have to go through a lot of thought and sometimes it just doesn't work out as well as we'd like .

Jen

[sarahspins]

Yeah, what jenb said

We do have similar BG "goals" but reality is, **** just goes wrong sometimes... we're MUCH more sensitive to the effects of that than the average T2 is.

Since we have absolutely NO insulin production of our own, it's a very fine balancing act... do the math, at an ISF of 1:50, how many units does one need to be "off" to end up over 200? Over 300? It's really not a whole lot. Highs often become higher highs because it sets up a cascade effect where even basal insulin is not as effective either.

The truth is, without ANY insulin in their systems, most T1's can easily top 500 or 600 within just a few hours. I lost a site once, away from home, without a backup, and by the time I was able to get insulin in me, I went from about 120 to well over 350 in the span of just over 2 hours, and I did not eat anything prior to or during that time. Yes, it is that fast. So basically, we're constantly fighting against that happening.

A good day, for me, would be when my CGM never tops 200, and never drops under 50. Care to guess how many times that has actually happened? I can manage the <200 part better than the >50 part most days, but there are days when staying inside that range is a real struggle, and trust me it's very very frustrating - and not always as simple as "take a little more insulin". Sometimes that just doesn't work for whatever reason. It's really not quite as simple as most T2's seem to assume it is... not when you are really COMPLETELY insulin dependent, and not just supplementing.

[fgummett]

No worries... despite the use of the Royal "We T2's" above, he does NOT speak on my behalf. I know full well from years of using a pump how lucky I am to still have my own insulin to allow for fine control... as you say, the "kit" we were born with is still far superior than trying to manage it all externally

[GretchO]

Isn't there a way, especially with a pump, that a T1 can control their blood glucose levels within a much tighter range - -let's say 90-120 and say goodbye to 200's forever and never again see a 300?

Or is that just impossible...?

I think that's pretty much why we have these forums Grant. Easy to say, not necessarily easy to do. And it's not because "We're" not cautious like "You" T2s. Aye carumba.