[myraj]

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating. Can't understand what is causing this.

[seacomp]

Hello, welcome to the forum. Maybe we can help some. I didn't see you were new at first and wrote -
Well you're eating carbs, add that to the Dawn Phenomena and what do you expect? What's your fasting gb?
Also what meds are you on?

[Penny]

Originally Posted by myraj

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating. Can't understand what is causing this.

Hello Myraj and welcome to the forum. I can eat a small serving of oatmeal, or a slice of whole wheat toast and not have a problem. If I ate both, I would be in trouble. Also, if you are adding milk to the oatmeal that is more carbs. I try to eat something with a lot of protein in the mornings, it seems to keep my levels lower. What medicines are you taking?

[greendavid]

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.

The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. The Joslin Diabetes Center at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.

The web site of the famous Dr. Bernstein (who recommends a radical low-carb diet) says proudly that his theories were "developed almost completely outside the mainstream of diabetology." Judge for yourself. (And whatever you decide, don't be snide about it.)

Specifically to myraj: I have learned that many people with type 2 taking oral meds (including me) have high BG readings in the morning, even when eating small amounts of carbohydrate. I believe it is a consequence of hormones released by the body between 4 and 8 a.m. which increase insulin resistance. This is known as the "Dawn Phenomenon" and you can read about it here.

[Penny]

Originally Posted by greendavid

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.

The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. The Joslin Diabetes Center at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.

The web site of the famous Dr. Bernstein (who recommends a radical low-carb diet) says proudly that his theories were "developed almost completely outside the mainstream of diabetology." Judge for yourself. (And whatever you decide, don't be snide about it.)

Specifically to myraj: I have learned that many people with type 2 taking oral meds (including me) have high BG readings in the morning, even when eating small amounts of carbohydrate. I believe it is a consequence of hormones released by the body between 4 and 8 a.m. which increase insulin resistance. This is known as the "Dawn Phenomenon" and you can read about it here.

I'm sorry Myraj, if my remark sounded snide. I was telling you what worked for me. It has been noted many times on this forum, that what works for one, might not work for others. We almost always add that you need to find out what will work for you. I just know that until I started counting my carbs, I had almost no control. I went from a almost 10 A1C to 6.3, in less than six months, after I started counting. I'm sorry Greendavid if I seemed to have an attitude, I only meant to offer my experience to help someone who asked for help.

[spike]

Originally Posted by Penny

I'm sorry Myraj, if my remark sounded snide. I was telling you what worked for me. It has been noted many times on this forum, that what works for one, might not work for others. We almost always add that you need to find out what will work for you. I just know that until I started counting my carbs, I had almost no control. I went from a almost 10 A1C to 6.3, in less than six months, after I started counting. I'm sorry Greendavid if I seemed to have an attitude, I only meant to offer my experience to help someone who asked for help.

Penny, I think his complaint was with Seacomp, judging from the content of your post and seacomps.

I get high from just wheat toast, even on insulin, so I don't think that seacomp is incorrect in warning the OP about carbs at breakfast. oatmeal AND toast maybe too many carbs. AAMOF, the OP complained of high bg's after breakfast. doesn't that pretty much tell the tale?

[Penny]

Originally Posted by spike

Penny, I think his complaint was with Seacomp, judging from the content of your post and seacomps.

I get high from just wheat toast, even on insulin, so I don't think that seacomp is incorrect in warning the OP about carbs at breakfast. oatmeal AND toast maybe too many carbs. AAMOF, the OP complained of high bg's after breakfast. doesn't that pretty much tell the tale?

Just didn't want Seacomp to feel picked on, he is fairly new. We both kind of told him he was eating too many carbs for breakfast. Also, wouldn't want anyone to be angry about advice I give to anyone. Thanks Spike, I agree, and it's nice to know someone has my back.

[seacomp]

Myraj, we seem to be ignoring your problem. We're not really, but you got stuck, not your fault, in the middle of an ongoing debate here about carbs. The problem of course is that you have to eat something and there are only three choices protein (meat), fat, or carbs. There are arguments against all three!
For your problem, it would help to know more about meds, your fasting bg, etc.

[Penny]

Originally Posted by seacomp

Myraj, we seem to be ignoring your problem. We're not really, but you got stuck, not your fault, in the middle of an ongoing debate here about carbs. The problem of course is that you have to eat something and there are only three choices protein (meat), fat, or carbs. There are arguments against all three!
For your problem, it would help to know more about meds, your fasting bg, etc.

The thing is, we are all in the same boat on this forum...fighting a terrible disease. We cannot give anyone any advice, except about what works for us. This forum is for that reason, to share what we can and to try to help each other. All of us have the option of trying anything offered by anyone. Maybe carb counting won't work for you, you are free to try other advice, too. Like Seacomp said, it would help to know what medications and fasting levels are.

[greendavid]

Sorry if I was obnoxious. I never am in real life! :

It's important that we not discount anyone's experience. I don't like to see it happen and I'm sorry if I did it.

We need all the wisdom we can get!

[Tokyo Cate]

Welcome Myraj, you will get the hang of it . Your profile says you were recently diagnosed and don't like it. I think we all can understand what you are going through and want to offer you support. Use the Forums and your health care team to sort out what works for you. It takes a lot of trial and error.

Your highish post-breakfast readings indicate that you either need to adjust your medication, if possible (I don't know much about Type 2 management), change your breakfast or increase your activity following breakfast. Experiment with what you eat for breakfast over the week to come to see if that improves your result.

Even though I'm only eating oatmeal, one slice of wheat toast (no butter) and coffee (black) my numbers are always over 200 about two hours after eating.

I have found that oatmeal causes my blood sugar to rise quite a bit the few times I have eaten it for breakfast and avoid it, but it can be quite filling. Perhaps sticking with the toast and adding something filling, but low in carbohydrates like a boiled egg would be as filling and have less of an impact on your post-breakfast blood sugars.

As others have said, the Dawn Phenomenon may be playing a part in the equation, but regardless your experience has shown that your blood sugars are too high for you after breakfast and either adjusting your meal, your medication or your activity seem like the best ways to correct the problem. Could you go for a walk after breakfast every day? Doing that could also correct the problem and (hopefully) give you more energy for the day.

Good luck and welcome to the Forums. It really is a supportive place and I hope to see you often.

[Cinnabon]

Originally Posted by greendavid

I don't like the snide attitude that some people have about carbs. Low-carb diets are not recommended for people with diabetes by reputable medical authorities.
The American Diabetes Association recommends that 45%-60% of one's calories come from complex carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. at Harvard is more stringent, recommending 40% from carbohydrates.

This has to be a joke, Sorry info rthe info greendavid, but Lo-Carb works wonders for BG control.


Carbs is what affects us most no matter what Flavor of diabetes you have.

[greendavid]

Obviously I've stepped on a toe or two here. I don't mean any disrespect, and if low-carb diets are helping people, then that's what they should be doing.

However, as far as I can tell, the reputable medical and nutritional authorities of the United States do not recommend low-carb diets for people with diabetes.

Here is an excerpt from a statement by the American Diabetes Association, authored in 2004 by eight doctors, researchers, and practitioners from around the country:

Although dietary carbohydrate increases postprandial glucose levels, avoiding carbohydrate entirely will not return blood glucose levels to the normal range. Additionally, dietary carbohydrate is an important component of a healthy diet. For example, glucose is the primary fuel used by the brain and central nervous system, and foods that contain carbohydrate are important sources of many nutrients, including water-soluble vitamins and minerals as well as fiber. Given the above, low-carbohydrate diets are not recommended in the management of diabetes. Recently, the National Academy of Sciences–Food and Nutrition Board recommended that diets provide 45–65% of calories from carbohydrate, with a minimum intake of 130 g carbohydrate/day for adults.

I would be glad to learn of evidence-based, medically authoritative statements to the contrary. Please post the links in this thread.

[seacomp]

Originally Posted by greendavid

I would be glad to learn of evidence-based, medically authoritative statements to the contrary. Please post the links in this thread.

What you have quoted does not meet your own criteria. It is certainly a "authoritative statement"; it's the medical establishment. But it just assertions, not evidence. You certainly, for example, don't need a lot of carbs to get your vitamins.
I would refer you to Dr. R. Bernstein -
http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/
for a medical explanation.
There certainly are many problem with a low-carb diet, like staying on it, affording it, etc. But for those who do not use external insulin, low-carb and exercise are the only handles one has on bg levels.
If the only criteria is managing BG levels then low carb must be looked at.

[Cinnabon]

Advantages of Low-Carbing

Sustained weight loss
Stabilized blood sugar (especially important for diabetics)
Lower insulin levels Better blood lipid profile (low cholesterol)
Lowered blood pressure
More energy
Vitamins and Minerals
But isn't a low-carb diet deficient in vitamins and minerals that are found in fresh fruits and vegetables? A low-carb lifestyle used to control diabetes and not to lose weight can be quite balanced--just stay away from refined carbohydrates. However, most low-carb diets used for weight loss are not "balanced" in terms of providing all the essential micronutrients. That is why it is extremely important to supplement your diet with good-quality vitamin and mineral products. It is also important to take a fiber supplement.

Look at it this way: All your life your body has been constantly subjected to high "doses" of sugar, in the form of refined carbohydrates. Your body recognizes only one carbohydrate -- sugar. All carbohydrates you eat, except fiber, are converted into sugar. Eating a diet that is 70% carbohydrates means that most of what you eat is sugar. That type of diet is also unbalanced. The purpose of a low-carb diet is to bring your body chemistry and insulin sensitivity back into balance. To do that, you must eat a diet that is unbalanced in the opposite direction of they way you have been eating for years.
http://wilstar.com/lowcarb/



The American Diabetes Association has endorsed reduced carbs, not just sugar, ... I also know that, let’s be honest here, even among low-carb advocates, ...

http://www.fabulousfoods.com/fitfab/...insattack.html