[royalicingflowr]

I went to my doctor today (saw the PA). I told her that I've been getting 2 hour post pran readings from 186-223. My fasting readings are fine, so when they do the fasting test, it comes back ok. My A1c runs 5.9 usually. My mother was diabetic, her sister & father are both diabetic. I try to get tested once a year or so, but the doc says that I shouldn't worry about it at all....I'm within the normal range. From what I remember my mom's doc telling her, her post pran readings should be around 140 as a diabetic. My doc is telling me that as a non diabetic, my readings are ok. Something doesn't sound right.

I'm 38, overweight, history of uncontrolled blood pressure for several years, now under control for the past 9 months. Had (have?) PCOS, but had total hysterectomy (including ovaries) 2 years ago.

[shockme]

yes- i'd be very concerned-especially with your family history.....get a 2nd opinion! take care,trish

[princesslinda]

If my 2 hr post-prandial readings were that high i'd be concerned, and i'm a full-blown T2 diabetic. I was told the 2 hr reading should be 140 or less, I generally shoot for less.

Since your A1C is in the upper limits of normal and you're having high postprandials, I'd suggest you have a glucose tolerance test and see what that shows. I'd also suggest that you start watching your carbs and getting regular exercise. Even if you aren't diabetic at this point, with your family history, you stand a good chance of it, esp. being overweight and having PCOS. If you take control of things now, you might put off a diagnosis of diabetes. If not, you'll be doing what you need to do to help with control.

I've read recently that the post-prandial readings are the first indicators of diabetes, and many diabetics go undiagnosed as usually doctors just run a fasting level. The fasting levels are the last to elevate, as generally your pancreas can function well enough to keep those fasting levels stable for quite awhile. I had normal fastings a year before I was diagnosed, yet looking back I realize I probably had diabetes at that time and just didn't know it.

[JediSurfer]

They are rather high numbers.
I always test my brother when I see him just to make sure he is ok. His numbers never go above a 6 ish or 108.
My father was type 1 like me from the age of three. so there is always a concern but i think my bro got the good genes as he is now 27 years old.

I am Type 1 and would be concerned with those numbers.

Get a second opinion and maybe see a specialist. Infact see a specialist immediately. could be something, could be nothing but best to seek the correct advice to to make sure and prevent any damage that may or may not occur.

Rich

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by princesslinda

... The fasting levels are the last to elevate, ....

That makes sense. The beta cells have the whole night to make enough insulin to bring blood glucose down into the normal range. So it is a poor measure of the body's ability to deal with glucose. It begs the question , why is fasting BG relied on to diagnose diabetes? A glucose tolerance test is a much better indicator.

[JediSurfer]

Fasting rate is the fastest dump of glucose into the system from the liver to get the vital organs up and running. But unless these tests are down within 40 mins they are inaccurate. Thats my own personal experience anyway.

[Tropo]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

That makes sense. The beta cells have the whole night to make enough insulin to bring blood glucose down into the normal range. So it is a poor measure of the body's ability to deal with glucose. It begs the question , why is fasting BG relied on to diagnose diabetes? A glucose tolerance test is a much better indicator.

I find this perplexing.

I'm trying to figure out why my fasting levels are always above 110 yet my PP readings are always under 140 at 1 hour and under 120 at 2 hours.

Quite often (more than 50% of the time) my 2 hour PP reading is UNDER my fasting level.

Today was a good example:

My fasting BG = 117 (higher than average for me)
1 hour PP = 125
2 hour PP = 100

My breakfast was high in carbohydrates but did contain a lot of protein too.

Does anyone else experience this?

I'm starting to wonder if it may indicate a problem with my liver.

[JediSurfer]

Beta cells make insulin as and when needed. the cells don't make insulin overnight to deal with the morning. the cells do it as and when required.
My BG can often jump from 6 to 10 within an hour of waking purely due to my liver and brain, yes these two organs are connected, giving my body the carbohydrates it needs.

Don't try to compare your fasting rate with post meal or post prandial or whatever its called. you will just give yourself a headache. Tropo your number look fine to me and you have no need to worry. You must also remember that blood glucose testers are highly inaccurate.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Tropo

... my fasting levels are always above 110 yet my PP readings are always under 140 at 1 hour and under 120 at 2 hours ... I'm starting to wonder if it may indicate a problem with my liver.

It sounds to me like the DP effect is particularly strong. DP is the combined effect of two forces. One is the increase in glucose produced by the liver. The other is increased insulin resistance, caused by raised levels of growth hormone. If the problem was with your liver, one would expect to see evidence of it at other times of the day too. So my guess is that your high FBGs are caused by particularly strong insulin resistance in the early morning.

[JediSurfer]

These number Tropo has mentioned are quite normal for a non diabetic and nowhere near being diabetic.

Tropo, whom exactly told you you are pre-diabetic? because from my lifetimes experience you are not diabetic, prediabetic or have any indication of any other condition from the number you have given us.

By the way. What is "DP effect"? all these shortening of words and names really confuses me.

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by JediSurfer

... What is "DP effect"? .....

DP = Dawn Phenomenon - the simultaneous increase in glucose supplied by the liver and a temporary increase in insulin resistance during the early morning hours.

A fasting blood glucose of 110 - 125mg/dl is pre-diabetic in terms of the current diagnostic benchmarks.

[JediSurfer]

At which point after waking are these numbers based on and are they taken under labortary conditions?

From my own testing of over 50 non-diabetics everyone is diabetic or pre-diabetic according to these numbers. And its highly unlikely in Thailand.

[Tropo]

Originally Posted by JediSurfer

At which point after waking are these numbers based on and are they taken under labortary conditions?

From my own testing of over 50 non-diabetics everyone is diabetic or pre-diabetic according to these numbers. And its highly unlikely in Thailand.

I just came back from the gym (90 minutes of intensive weight training) and posted 104.

JediSurfer, these results are from using my own glucometer...a Horizen "One-touch" meter.

It was interesting that you observe a big jump in the first hour after waking. My testing is never done immediately upon waking, and probably between 30 minutes and an hour after.

Nobody specifically told me that I'm diabetic. I discovered very high BG levels 2 years ago when suffering from a liver ailment (I documented this in some detail on the thread: My Nortorous and Evil Liver). I used medication for a while, then stopped. All testing I've done since then puts me in the pre-diabetic category in terms of waking BG.

Living in Asia, I don't feel compelled to discuss my condition with a doctor.

[Ronin]

Hi Royalicingflowr! (Interesting alias for a diabetic forum)

Should you be concerned? In a word -- Yes! Not because of what one MD says but because of what you say about yourself. It is time to change your ways, and you only need some kind of confirmation to get going. Consider your position confrimed.

As to the whole Pre-Diabetic question: I've been through the roller-coaster on this issue. I figure that if your FBG's are continually in the >100 mg/dL range your body is sending you a message. Is it the potential onset of Diabetes? Not sure, but if it is combined with other risk factors such as obesity, inactivity, high triglycerides, high LDL Cholesterol, low HDL Cholesterol, high blood pressure, et cetera you are potentially a disaster in progress.

In the final analysis, the person you see in the mirror every morning is the person responsible for your health. Tropo may have self-diagnosed while others got the "official" diagnosis from the same criteria. The fact is that getting information and taking action is what it is all about.

I'm still digesting the C-Peptide results I got earlier this week that is discussed in a nearby thread. Am I going to become a Type-1.5? I don't know, but I do know that I am going to be watchful to the symptoms.

Summing it all up, Royalicingflowr - be concerned and do something positive. Tropo, get over the fear, it seems you are managing good control. However, get an HbA1c and perhaps a C-Peptide as well that may answer a whole bunch of questions.

[Tropo]

Originally Posted by Ronin

However, get an HbA1c and perhaps a C-Peptide as well that may answer a whole bunch of questions.

I'm pretty sure I can get these tests done in my area. I've read that fasting is not required for the A1c test. What about the C-Peptide test? Is fasting required for that?