[Larry H.]

HI all,

Been a bit since I chatted here. All summer things had been doing quite well and I was able to keep things well in control it seemed. About the past month or so I have noticed slowly creeping fasting numbers. I may have changed my eating habits a bit but not significantly usually. Had the occasional splurge but normally they would come out pretty good on checking.

Mom, bless her, has been pretty good at making things that are easy on the diet. But since I was normally ok with many things I knew others couldn't eat much of I may have pushed my self into a problem that is worsening. Not too happy about it. Yesterday I was out of town all day and the evening meal was aboard Amtrak, I wanted to try the new menu and although I mostly had steak and vegies' I did eat some instant mashed pottos, but not all of them, and had a piece of cheese cake for desert. That was on top of a regular large chocolate chip cookies in chicago with a pastrami sandwich.
This morning I had a 116. I had my eggs and turkey bacon with a slice of toast and small amount of cereal. I walked and thihgs came in at 94 two hours from the first bite. But tonight I had a chop suey with some crunchy noodles, and then a narrow piece of fruit cake mom had been having. I walked about 25 minutes. At two hours I had a 178. Nearly a record high for me. I have been doing some projects around the house tonight and feel rather odd. I checked my numbers at five hours and it came in at 150. That seemed over the top for me. Not sure how to go about getting it down. Not on med's and have so far attempted to avoid them. My crazy doctor wouldn't even give me a script for medicare for testing strips because he said I didn't have anything to worry about. I am starting to think I do!

[volleyball]

I would not worry. Your number will come down.

[Ronin]

Hi Larry!

Dealing with this condition is vexing, particularly in the world of Pre-D's. A lot of medical professionals as well as those in the diabetic community don't buy into the diagnosis in the first place. Yet, we are concerned.

I'm less strict than others I know and my HbA1c's have been holding steady at 5.2 and that says that I'm okay. Have you had an HbA1c test done? If so, what were the results? If not I recommend the Biosafe home test kit (available at Amazon.com for around $20) I have checked this kit against my lab results and they have been bang-on with the lab results. I am also an advocate of getting a fasting C-Peptide reading to see how much insulin your pancreas is producing. I found that mine is quite low which indicates that I am not insulin resistant, but at the same time says that my pancreas is producing less than normal amounts of insulin.

Finally, while the FBG is the most common test the reality is that test done after meals because it says just how well your body handles the processing of carbohydrates.

[morrisma]

I read somewhere that some endos are writing scripts for insulin for pre-Ds in an effort to prevent full blown D. Can't quite come up with the details since I'm type 1 and it meant little to me at the time. You need to find an endo that will take these 'excursions' more seriously and maybe provide a low dose med for as-needed use. Test strips scripts are a must.
Good luck!

[Larry H.]

An update here. Things are still coming in almost unexplainable off. Or maybe they are explainable? Granted I was lucky most of the past year in that I seemed to be able to eat some of the things that others said they couldn't. To be honest I did usually keep the amount of carbs down to a reasonable amount. But I am somewhat unclear on what is going on now. I know I had a rash of food days recently that were above the usual. But normally that wouldn't have caused a long term problem. However now I am still getting for me at least higher numbers than anything in the past year.
Again last night I had turnips, carrots and some salmon paddies that had a bit of whole wheat crackers in them. I had about a quarter cup of left over baked beans and a low carb ice cream for dessert. At two hours I had a 168. I have cut my snack of a small bowl of cereal at night to a smaller yet with higher fiber and less carbs. Still got a morning reading of 120. One of my highest so far, although a couple recently breached the 125 point on the first test.
I talked to a lady last night that was a dietitian and she wondered if my even low total carb meals weren't pushing my levels over the point where they weren't reacting as I had hoped. Its very frustrating seeing these levels after doing what I had thought for the most part were positive steps.

[xMenace]

You are doing great, but eventually great isn't enough. Your body is going to need help. Consult with your doctor and don't hesitate to do what he says. It's not you that's failing, it's your bod. This slide will probably continue for many years, so get used to it.

[Larry H.]

Another night, another high for me reading.

A few turnips and maybe a small cooked carrot. A salmon patty with a few whole wheat crackers for filling. 16 carb piece of bread and a few chips. A scoop of four carb ice cream.. Came in at 177. I would say the total carbs above is considerably under the possible 70 for dinner an yet I am getting these numbers. I am starting to see why so many say they can't eat anything.

[matingara]

Originally Posted by Larry H.

A few turnips and maybe a small cooked carrot. A salmon patty with a few whole wheat crackers for filling. 16 carb piece of bread and a few chips. A scoop of four carb ice cream.. Came in at 177. I would say the total carbs above is considerably under the possible 70 for dinner an yet I am getting these numbers. I am starting to see why so many say they can't eat anything.

i would leave out the wheat crackers, the chips and the bread.

i would add in a leafy green salad with peppers, onions, broccoli (etc). i would also add in a glass of wine or two (if you like wine that is).

i am enjoying the low carb diet because i get to eat alot of stuff i love again! (like eggs).

i eat the low carb (4g) ice cream and real ice cream without a major spike.

my fasting readings are between 72 and 110 usually. and my worst spikes are between 144 and 153.

i just think of myself as "pre agricultural"!!!

-- joel.

[CaptainMike]

The condition is universally considered 'progressive'. Sorry for the bad news.
You may be able to slow the progression, but probably not while eating ice-cream, cookies, pastrami sandwiches, carrots, and cereal.
My advice; try cutting out dessert and after dessert high-carb snacks. If you want to eat like you are eating then it is probably time to start meds.

Mike

[Real4]

Originally Posted by Larry H.

Again last night I had turnips, carrots and some salmon paddies that had a bit of whole wheat crackers in them. I had about a quarter cup of left over baked beans and a low carb ice cream for dessert. At two hours I had a 168.

I would suggest counting the carbs in a meal like this. I mean by the book and with a scale. I suspect your count is a lot higher than you think.

[Larry H.]

Your probably right about the hidden carbs here. I tried adding up about what I ate, including something I forgot. It was about at the limit for carbs that ADM would recommend for an evening meal. I know that many here will not even come close to eating those carbs. Unfortunately for me, I guess, is that for quite some time I had no real problems with those limits. But probably as I started this thread, I had overdone it. I guess I wanted to believe that my old doctor knew what he was talking about in having nothing to worry about. That probably encouraged me to over do a bit compared to what I had been doing. But it is sort of a shock to now see much higher numbers when eating the same items in a similar amount. For lunch today I ate some red beans, 1/4 cup and a half sandwich with low carb bread, meat and cheese and my scoop of low carb ice cream. I kept up the walking and exercise machine after for about 20 minutes. I got a 136 at two hours. So that meal is looking better. But the evening is where It usually gets up there. Will watch it closer tonight and see if I can bring it down from those 160-70 ranges.

[Larry H.]

Well now I wish I had read the tread about the way diabetes develops much sooner. I am taking advice and cutting back, but gee even that is giving poor results at the moment. Maybe it will eventually come down?
Tonight we tried to have a nearly carb free meal.. Sauerkraut and some sausage, 1/2 cup applesauce, sugar free jello and egg white cookies.
Two hours later 155. I would not expected that to do much of anything. Very hard to figure out for sure. All I can do is keep trying to keep the carbs down and see what gives.

[Larry H.]

Thought this deserved and update since I have worked hard at changing the numbers I was seeing. I don't know what it means exactly as it most likely means I had been overdoing on the carb end without realizing the net result. Being one of those prone to depressive type of diabetics I of course had the world ending with the type of numbers I was getting for a while. For now at least I am somewhat happy with the reversal I have been able to accomplish though increased movement and watching more closely my carbs. I have not given up absolutely every hint of anything worth eating. But I have reduced greatly my intake I guess. I started using one slice of bread, (low carb) which only amounts to about 9 carbs for my lunch sandwich. Instead of chips I am eating about a 1/4 cup of canned beans, red or white which have some carbs but provide a bit of balance with the fiber content. Then I am restricting my self to very low carb ice cream and at times no sugar jello or other low carb items.

At first the numbers seemed stuck leading me to think I had entered that "no return" point I read about here in the article of how Diabetes progresses in the type II discussion. A good article I found.

So After days of 178, 168, 150 and now 139 after dinner with lower numbers between. My fasting has gone from 120 to 97 or less. This morning I had a 77 after my two slices of turkey bacon, egg beaters and about a 1/4 cup bran flakes with half a banana. I walked my usual half hour interspersed with reps on the Health Rider. I figure that extra activity would help to parallel what I was getting in summer with the push mechanical mowers. Now the catch is to keep it with in reason. My no insurance had led me to testing more faithfully in the morning, and didn't exactly realize that those numbers are the last to go south.. Hopefully I can keep them at the levels I am now seeing.

Happy holidays to all.
thanks for being there.

[volleyball]

Glad to see your numbers are where you want, an early xmas gift to yourself.

[Tropo]

Originally Posted by Larry H.

My no insurance had led me to testing more faithfully in the morning, and didn't exactly realize that those numbers are the last to go south.. .

This is not in fact true. Some Pre-D people post good fasting numbers yet their post prandial readings are high. Others post high fasting numbers yet their post prandials are ok.

I'm of the latter type.