[Larry H.]

Hello All,

I recall reading on some sites when I found out I was either early type II or perhaps Pre Diabetic that a third of those who were pre diabetic would become type II in three years and the progression went on from that time frame. If I recall right it seemed that at about 10 years many of the pre's ended up as type II.

So I wondered how some of you have done, and if so how?

For my self I am coming up on Two years here next month. I started with numbers approaching the fasting levels at 125 and slightly above, once in a great while over the 130 mark, but with variations in meters its a bit hard to know for sure what that meant. My after meals were in the 150 to 190 range when I first started paying attention to what was going on, those were mostly the evening ones which always have been the highest. I started walking about a half hour a day, watching carefully what I eat. I lost 35 pounds, even though I was never really heavy, a high of 193 or so at 6 feet. After the two years I have lower numbers over all at most points, but what is obvious is that if I resort to thinking the issue is "cured" then my numbers will shock me back to my senses.

An example is that some of the evening readings had come in at as little as 115 or so if I ate low carb. But when I got lax and ate a white flour muffin along with a small low carb serving of pasta the other night and a couple other borderline items, I ended up at 170. Way above my usual readings. What this seems to say is the disease can be held in check to a pretty good degree, as long as I do my part. But thinking I can do things, even in fairly small amounts the way I used to is asking for trouble.

My journey has so far been with out the use of any medications from a doctor. I have occasionally searched out alternate items to try, and the judgement on them is pretty much up in the air. I thought the Salacia Oblonga was a fairly good product for lowering my numbers. I also liked a Blood Sugar herbal mix by Natures Way. I don't know if they were helpful in keeping the numbers down or not. I did stop taking most of them, well all lately since my numbers were pretty much under control. I would almost have to try and take some and eat something similar to what caused the higher readings to see if it actually made some real difference.

Hope to hear from some others on their journey and how its progressed.

[yannah]

do you see a doctor regularly and have you gotten some AC1's done?

[Josselyn]

Hi Larry.

With essentially those same numbers you've stated (except that I am overweight and six years younger), I've been classified by my doctor as being a Type 2...period. He apparently doen't believe in pre-diabetic conditions. His diagnosis has turned my life upside down, though I suppose I needed the "head's up."

I, too, control my glucose with diet (low carb), natural supplements, vitamins and exercise instead of my prescribed Metformin (since I still consider myself "pre diabetic"). Like you, too, I watch what I eat, but if I push it with so little as a piece of white toast, my numbers can jump to 155-170 and stay there for a couple of hours or more. My AM reading usually begins with somewhere in the one-teens to one-twenty something, then often drops to 106 or so. Pasta, even a moderate Dreamfield's serving, can keep my blood sugar in the 140s to 150s or so for a few hours before coming down to my more typical 114.

Do you know your A1c numbers? Your FBG numbers from the doc's? Researching the meaning of those readings was the beginning of a journey that, for me, began in late May. I'm now burying myself in books (Atkins, Bernstein, and Gretchen's book, The First Year, among others). I am also on Google, and this site, learning from people more experienced than I.

What I am NOT doing is rolling over and being passive about this health issue I've developed. I am not being obedient about meds. I have not developed noticable symptoms.

The diagnosis was beyond sobering for me, and I'm doing everything in my power to halt or reverse this thing...short of a prescription (maybe later).

I was in the process of buying life insurance when my doctor diagnosed me, for heaven's sake. Not even a warning (new-to-me doc)...I guess I can hang that one up for a while. But I digress...

From all that I have learned in this short amount of time, most pre-diabetics become Type 2 within ten years...but major life changes can inhibit or halt the progression.

I wish you all the best.

[GayleM]

Hi, Larry!

Going back to when I was DX'd as "pre" - there really is no such thing. If you go over 145 after eating anything at anytime you are not normal. Normal folks (that sounds silly - LOL!) never, ever go above that no matter what they eat or how much.

And, we never "heal" from a pre-DX. You always will be. You may avoid further progession (I've read the odds are 50/50) but there is no going back. I've found no time frames, just those "odds" on medical sites. Given I don't believe in being "pre" (kinda like being half pregnant - LOL) I always considered myself as a T2 from the very start. "Pre" really just tells us we are at the start of the disease and if you were peaking at 190 before changing your eating, you are diabetic.

Speaking of peaks, what time do you peak or test? I used to peak at 45 min. after first bite, now it's 1 hour. That can change, so worthwhile to test a bunch every few months to make sure you are testing at your peak times.

I, too, am just using exercise and diet to control my numbers. My overall average is now in the 101-110 range, but my FBG is still 90-105. Great numbers and I do not feel deprived in what I eat at all. I also keep an Excel spreadsheet where I log every morsel I eat and every blood reading. I'm so used to doing it now it takes me only 6 min a day or so.

I don't kid myself as to the progression of diabetes...it will come, I just hope to delay it as long as possible. I test 4 times a day as I have been surprised by my body suddenly not tolerating a food it once did.

I don't mean to sound so negative and clearly you are doing a fabulous job in controlling it!! But, I don't think any of us are well served thinking we've beat it or that "pre" isn't the same thing as "full blown" diabetes.

Again, congrats on your great progess!

[GayleM]

Hi, Josselyn!

Big congrats on jumping in and taking control of your life! I also applaud your Doc for not softening the blow by saying you were "pre." Since it can take time for diabetes to progress, I think most docs do us no favors not telling us the truth - you're at the start of the disease and get a grip now if your eyes, limbs and heart matter to you.

Just curious why you aren't taking your Metformin? It isn't a sign of failure, just another tool in our arsenal to make the most of what insulin management our bodies have left. It may also allow you to have more flexibility in your food choices.

On your belief you are "pre," as I told Larry, once you cross that threshold we never can go back. What was your A1C? Did you have a fasting glucose test done? I suspect if you do have the FBG test you will no use the term "pre" anymore as the numbers would remove any ambiguity. Just a thought, but to prepare for the long haul you may want to start treating yourself as a T2 and get those other tests if you need confirmation. Due to my diet and lifestyle changes I no longer have to take Metformin. I never had sypmtoms of diabetes either, but the FBG doesn't lie I'm just glad I found out early so I have a better chance of keeping limbs, eyes and heart doing well for the rest ofmy life

I know I sound like a harpy when I tell you that, but you sound like you want to take control, make a plan, put the plan into action and then get on with your life ANd with the numbers you shared, if it were me, I would be a T2 and deal with the disease accordingly.

Take care and all the best!

[GayleM]

DUH! Sorry, Josselyn...I failed to read your signature.

My dear, you are a diabetic. Not pre. Your FBG test number at 200+ removes any wiggle room in that diagnosis. And, your A1C is just an average for the past 3 months, so you were probably spiking to the 200 often as your A1C of 6.6 shows your average BG reading at 153...over what is normal and if you play with number a bit, you'll see how high you were spiking after eating...well into the diabetic range.

No intent to be nasty here, but from what you said and how your signature reads, you are in denial.

Only if we accept our diagnosis can we stick to a life plan...and this is for the rest of our lives.

[Larry H.]

Thanks for the input.

I don't think I thought that I was going to return to the day when I could eat anything I wanted and not see poor results.

If funny how every doctor here I have seen, and that is three in the past two years, feels I have no problem.. they think the numbers I am getting are fine and "don't worry about it".. Maybe that is why so many here in the country are overweight and diabetic?

I don't know for sure about the debate which rages here on the topic of is or is there not a pre diabetic diagnosis? Here is the American Diabetes Site. Seems pretty clear they think so?

Pre-Diabetes - American Diabetes Association

My one and only AC1 was about a year ago and came in at 5.8. I think it would be lower now and am about to have one done. I will let you know when I do what the results are. I could be surprised.

My thinking on it was that my morning readings have stayed away from being over the 125 that seems to be the breaking point for type II. I have only have a few of that number in the time I have tested. As to the doctor testing it. The last blood test I had done showed a 101 for the glucose. My own readings have fallen below 100 most days anymore.

Another thing that makes me think that indeed there is some difference in the way some react and others don't, is that I can eat things in moderation such as whole wheat low carb sandwiches nearly every lunch along with some no fat chips, low carb ice cream and often come in around 125 or so at two hours after. Things like too many beans, or the dreaded rice and white flour or real sugar items can throw my numbers up too, but again not so much as what I see other say happens to them.

There is some evidence on the net that thinks that if caught in the early stages of damage, that by reducing your carb intake your body may be able to recover some of its ability to use the sugars somewhat. I can't say that is the case though, just interesting as a prospect.

[Larry H.]

Oh also I forgot the respond to why not take the medication which was suggested by the first doctor who saw the initial 128 reading that started this.

I have lots of pills to take already, I had no insurance at the time and the reports I read mostly say that diet and exercise in the more manageable cases works better than pills. And if pressed many in the medical profession will say that the medicines that stimulate your pancreas eventually wear it out much faster. I prefer not too. And if I can see reasonably good results without taking them I think I am the better off for it.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by GayleM

Hi, Larry!

I don't mean to sound so negative and clearly you are doing a fabulous job in controlling it!! But, I don't think any of us are well served thinking we've beat it or that "pre" isn't the same thing as "full blown" diabetes.

Again, congrats on your great progess!

Doc tells me diabetes is progressive.....no way around it. But some people, (and I know a lot), are just insulin resistant and once they lose some weight they can control with diet and exercise. That's not me......so I deal. I was hypoglycemic most of my life and I knew I would be diabetic one day and it finally happened, took over 20 years so I should not complain.

[Larry H.]

Yes I tried to stay away from the "insulin resistant" issue since I think many will feel its not a real situation.

When I first was explaining what I was seeing in readings I had a couple people, not doctors, who are alternative type providers, mention that I sounded like I was insulin resistant more than diabetic. That gave me pause to wonder if there was such a thing, but so far I don't really know. Perhaps time will tell.

[dbaratta]

Originally Posted by Larry H.

Yes I tried to stay away from the "insulin resistant" issue since I think many will feel its not a real situation.

When I first was explaining what I was seeing in readings I had a couple people, not doctors, who are alternative type providers, mention that I sounded like I was insulin resistant more than diabetic. That gave me pause to wonder if there was such a thing, but so far I don't really know. Perhaps time will tell.

I know people who are insulin resistant. An example was a guy at work, they had him on metformin for a while, he dropped a bunch of weight and watched his diet close but not too close and he doesn't even have to take the meds. I am told that if you can drop weight and get a lot better with the BG numbers that is more resistant because extra fat in the body makes the body resistant. This is just what my doc told me and I am repeating........it is all still a mystery as far as I am concerned.

[sumi]

Hi Larry, welcome.
It sounds like you are doing a great job on control.
I don't think anyone really knows how long you can go without worsening symptoms. My guess is decades, if you are aware and careful.
As to the 'insulin resistant' issue, that is the main issue with type 2's. In general, we keep making more and more insulin to keep bg's in control, until our pancreas can no longer keep up with the demand. At this point, our bg's start to rise, even though we may have 3 times the amount of insulin circulating that a non-D would have. If we continue with high bg's, eventually our beta cells will wear out. I agree with your comment on drugs that stimulate insulin production, they probably accelerate this process, however metformin, the most common first prescription does not do this.

[Larry H.]

Yes I forgot about that fact on the Metformin works though the digestive system I think? From what I have read the Salacia Oblonga that comes from the bark of trees in India and is widely used to lower both glucose and cholesterol over there is what the Metformin was based on. Both create a gassy effect that can be quite difficult at times and I backed off using it all the time as well. Oddly when I had the last blood work up I have the lowest cholesterol and the best good to bad ratio I have ever seen. My triglycerides were the lowest ever, way below good and they used to be very high. I don't know if the Salacia was responsible or not but it made me wonder? That with lots of walking and watching my diet.

This morning my fasting was 92 so the trend of seeing better numbers is continuing.

[Ronin]

Everyone:

I don't want to brag but in the two-plus years my numbers have actually improved. My health care people have suggested that the initial diagnosis was wrong, but when I tell them about my life-style changes and what I am doing to maintain they all agree that I'm holding off the onset. How long is yet to be determined but for now I'm doing just fine over two years in and better numbers than when I started this journey.

[Larry H.]

Ronin,

Yes that is my finding. It becomes then rather a chore to have to insist to the doctors that I can't just eat what I want or ignore the problem. That seems to be the catch 22 of diabetes. If you do something early to reduce the effects, as long as possible, you get no coverage and little to no encouragement at least not from my doctors who seem oblivious to what it takes to keep the numbers lowered. It was only the first young doctor who saw my initial numbers and warned me I was headed for trouble if I didn't proactively do something to slow it. After he went on to of all things, become a diabetes specialist, I lost my only real support in that office.

Larry