Up & coming Accu-chek pump....Possible issues. - Page 4

solox316 · #46 (**permalink**) 07-23-2007, 06:14 AM

I know there is another thread about this somewhere... I spoke with a good friend of mine who work at AccuCheck. He confirmed the Spirit pumps now have a shut off time of 6 years (in the US at least), as opposed to the previous 4 years. Regardless of what the user's guide online says.

ravenmocker · #47 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 08:16 AM

My back up pump which had never been out of the box, also displayed 04 occlusion when I put in batteries. The pump I was wearing was beeping an 04 occluson. It obviiously has noting to do with usage. Techinal support tried to help me get them running and finally said my warenty was no longer valad and that I would need to upgrade, seems more like a hostage negotiation to me.

ravenmocker · #48 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 08:50 AM

I was never told anything about a recall. They just sent me two new pumps to replace the two I had. Im sure if they mentioned a recall I would have spent many sleepless nights worring about it.
I am wondering how can a brand new pump , which has never been in use expire. My son had a pokemon silver and a gold game that had a battery inside it and when the internal battery died it didnt play anymore. You were suppose to send it back to the company and have it replaced. Im wondering if they did something like that?

JediSkipdogg · #49 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmocker

My back up pump which had never been out of the box, also displayed 04 occlusion when I put in batteries. The pump I was wearing was beeping an 04 occluson. It obviiously has noting to do with usage. Techinal support tried to help me get them running and finally said my warenty was no longer valad and that I would need to upgrade, seems more like a hostage negotiation to me.

The timers on the Disetronic are from the time the pump is first started. It has NOTHING to do with total usage of the pump but from the date it was initiated. So simply putting a battery in it when you first got them would initiate both of them unless they do/did it before shipping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ravenmocker

I was never told anything about a recall. They just sent me two new pumps to replace the two I had. Im sure if they mentioned a recall I would have spent many sleepless nights worring about it.
I am wondering how can a brand new pump , which has never been in use expire. My son had a pokemon silver and a gold game that had a battery inside it and when the internal battery died it didnt play anymore. You were suppose to send it back to the company and have it replaced. Im wondering if they did something like that?

I believe the theory was it would help to make sure you got a new pump. It would 1) Force the insurance company into buying you one. If they knew yours was going to shut off then they couldn't mess around on approving a new one. 2) It would force you to stay up to date. That way you don't get outdated technology or have a pump suddenly break on you (although I think the chances of breaking in 10 years are the same as 2 years.)

Personally, I think the reason is because it makes them more money. Nothing like a guarantee that you get a $6000 every 4 years for users.

trifona · #50 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

The timers on the Disetronic are from the time the pump is first started. It has NOTHING to do with total usage of the pump but from the date it was initiated. So simply putting a battery in it when you first got them would initiate both of them unless they do/did it before shipping.

Incorrect. The timers in the H-Tron & D-Tron are based on operational time. They only run down as long as batteries are installed.

BlueSky · #51 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonJayhawk

.... the pump materials probably cost less than $50 to manufacturer. This is a big cash cow. .....

That being the case, why do the pump companies need to charge so much for them. Surely it would make more sense to sell the pump for, say, $300 and to make the real money out of proprietary supplies. At $3,000 per annum, the revenue from supplies over a 6 year pump life would be $18,000. Which by far exceeds the $7,000 pump price tag.

JasonJayhawk · #52 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSky

That being the case, why do the pump companies need to charge so much for them.

Oh no, you've opened a pandora's box!

R&D is what they'd like to point at for where the money goes to keep their pipelines full and coming out with something new every 2 years, but then we can consider CEO salaries, lawsuit litigation from malfuctions, costs for patent protection and litiigation against other DME companies ("Can't we just all get along?" -- No! Only the paranoid survive the technology war!), salaries for employees, not to mention healthcare of their own.

I would suspect that their own employee healthcare keeps costs up, as not many "healthy" people would just so happen to choose to go into a job (such as nursing) just because they love it. It's usually a personal motivation, so the people going into those engineering/nursing/sales careers usually have a reason (such as a chronic health condition), that drives costs up even higher.

But the physical cost of manufacturing the device isn't low. If it was high, we'd never get our hands on the products for just $3K-$7K.

Infusion sets are made by hand, typically in Mexico, because of reduced labor costs. They don't cost that much to make, but when considering how much money they cost, we realize how much lawyers and CEO's get paid to keep the wheels turning.

Is it a bad thing? If we are the CEO, R&D developer, tech support person that answers the phone at 3 AM, or the person in Mexico who has a job to just barely put food on the table, then no, it's not a bad thing.

But if we're the person that works hard to live, then it's not so good. *sigh*

JediSkipdogg · #53 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 05:34 AM

I think one big key that most forget when it comes to pump prices is the benefits recieved by that company. Pump companies truely do bend over backwords for most (at least Animas has for me.) Take the following items as an example...

1) Loaner pumps - If you go on a trip I've yet to find a pump company that will not send you a spare pump out. Obviously the cost of them sending it to you and you sending it back is not free. Remember, these items have to be insured at up to $6000 (or whatever they deem the actual pump price) and most send them out overnight.

2) Unlimited free replacements - In my time with ANimas I think I've had 5 replacement pumps (most stupid cracks around the battery cap on my current one.) They have to recover those feels for next day air shipping along with the cost of the replacement. That's all figured into the initial price.

3) 24/7 AMERICAN Tech Support - At least with Animas, they are in America. They have to pay some people to staff the phones 24/7 and since they don't outsource that job (I asked the person one time where they were and they said West Chester, PA) they have to include that cost in the pump.

4) R&D - Pump design is not easy. Ijust wish they'd work on the software better, but you do have to be impressed how you can get so much in a pump. Remember, a AA or AAA battery and the insulin cartridge take up I'd say more than 50% of the space in a pump.

5) Startup Training - I think this can vary greatly with pump companies. Everytime I've been training by Animas it was by someone from or contracting with ANimas. It was not done by the doctor's office. Therefore they have to pay that person for a training that takes a couple of hours. And if it's the initial first time pumper training, then they have to add that you may call the trainer off hours at home, which I'm sure they get paid for somehow.

The benefits you recieve for using that companies pump are one reason it's so high. How many home electronics do you own with a 4 year standard warranty? I can't name any in my place. I'm sure they could charge $1000 less and make it a 1 year warranty. At which point we'd all be getting new pumps all the time.

BlueSky · #54 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

.... The benefits you recieve for using that companies pump are one reason it's so high. ....

I wasn't suggesting that the pump companies are making too much money. I was was just questioning the business model. The pump companies could make more money if they only covered their costs on the pump but hooked their customers into buying proprietary supplies for the life of the pump. BG monitor companies do it with metres & test strips. Novo and Lily do it with their pens & insulin. The financial dynamics of doing the same thing with pumps and supplies is even more compelling.

Funnygrl · #55 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSky

I wasn't suggesting that the pump companies are making too much money. I was was just questioning the business model. The pump companies could make more money if they only covered their costs on the pump but hooked their customers into buying proprietary supplies for the life of the pump. BG monitor companies do it with metres & test strips. Novo and Lily do it with their pens & insulin. The financial dynamics of doing the same thing with pumps and supplies is even more compelling.

Reservoirs are proprietary for every pump. MM tried to make sets proprietary too, and another company came out with a reservoir that let them use non-proprietary sets anyways. Omnipod is also trying that. We'll see how it goes.

shabbie6247 · #56 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 05:05 AM

as someone who is shortly to receive an accu-check pump (possibly the spirit but not sure).
this thread doesnt seem to cover the good side of accu-check pumps (thats if there are any!).
being in the uk, i dont actually get a choice in my 'funded by the NHS pump'...choice of one!

so...any good points?

JediSkipdogg · #57 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabbie6247

so...any good points?

Ummmm.....The screen can be flipped 180 degrees so that no matter how you wear the pump, the screen can be the best view for you to read it without turning it.

Funnygrl · #58 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 06:43 AM

It has the largest reservoir- 315 units. You can get skins for it. Seriously, any pump is better than MDI, but this one kinda is the under achiever of pumps.

jimbob · #59 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 07:51 AM

it does most everything any other pump does and you might even be able to get a PDA or PDA phone with it.

Funnygrl · #60 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbob

it does most everything any other pump does and you might even be able to get a PDA or PDA phone with it.

The PDA and phone option is only in the US. It doesn't do everything other pumps do. There's no bolus wizard, you have to program the basal rate in hour increments and program every hour separate, and there's just a lot of weird programming quirks to it.

Shabbie, you can check out the virtual pump on their site and get a feel for it.