[trifona]

One potential reason to avoid the Disetronic/Accu-Chek Spirit:

On both the H-TronPlus & D-TronPlus pumps, one of the error codes on the back of the pump is "Technical Inspection Due". After 2 years of use for each pump you are (or were) supposed to send the pump back to Disetronic for inspection & resetting of this timer. Well Disetronic just sent me a new pump for warranty replacement (my warranty expires in 10 days). On the back of the pump and included in a letter in the package was a notice that they changed the wording from "Technical Inspection Due" to "End of Use Time" on the back of the pump. "End of Use Time"????? No other explanation was given in the notice, just the change of wording. I thought this new wording was quite odd so I called Technical Support last night which confirmed that when this alarm triggers they will NOT reset the timer!!! Which means that if this policy also extends to the Accu-Chek Spirit, you are not buying a pump with a 4 year warranty, but a pump with only a 4 year life span!!!

Sure its nice to upgrade to a new pump every 4 years, but what if you lose your insurance? Even if your pump is physically OK they will force you to upgrade? He said they have NOT done any technical inspections in quite a few years (probably since the FDA Ban). My guess is that they can't inspect it for safety in light of the recalls and want to get the old pumps off the market to protect them from a liability standpoint and also to force people to buy a new pump every 4 years. When I asked him "WHY would you force me to buy a new pump when the timer on my D-Tron goes off?" His response was - "Don't you want newer technology?" I told him sure, we all do, but that I felt that my DtronPlus could do everything that the Spirit can. His response was that the Spirit holds 315 units of insulin and that the D-Tron only holds 300! The Spirit does 6million checks a day to make sure it's working within spec. I asked, doesnt the D-tron processor check itself throughout the day? He said "Not 6 million times!"

OMG I couldnt believe where this was going.

His remaining arguments were that the Spirit has 4 basal profiles, instead of two, and one additional bolus profile.

Personally I didnt care, considering that I had already bought the Minimed 722 yesterday, I didnt call them to have a pump wars debate, just clarification on their letter and subsequently why they just letting people's pumps die and not resetting them after their timer runs down - My plan was to always keep my Disetronic pumps as backups.

Personally I think they are being VERY shady, especially if this is indeed extended to the Spirit pump. Think of it this way...sure it's nice if your insurance will pay for a nice new pump every 4 years. What happens if for whatever reason you dont have insurance 4 years from now that will pay for a new one and the pump timer on your Spirit just went off? YOU ARE SCREWED! There may not be anything wrong with your pump, but Disetronic says that you cant use it anymore. I would rather have an old reliable that could work for 10 years with no bells and whistles rather than some new (yet apparently not so slick) pump that shuts itself down after 4 years, guaranteed never to work again. Perhaps there is an out clause in the case of the Spirit that allows them to reset the timer. Even so, is their word worth anything considering that they have retroactively decided not to reset the timers on pumps bought and paid for years ago?

It is hard to accept how far our old friend Disetronic has fallen. The way I see things, the Disetronic I knew and loved died when Roche laid off everybody in Minnesota, and morphed it into a new company with new people using the Disetronic name in Illinois. So sad.

Luckily all 4 of my Disetronic pump "back-ups" are warranty replacements with a full 2 years worth of time on them.

[JasonJayhawk]

Trifona,

You are correct about the Spirit's pre-programmed death.

I was looking at the Spirit, and discovered in the manual that it STOPS working once the timer goes off. It cannot be reset by the end-user. This means you are buying the "licensed rights" to use the pump for four years. I hope people discover this now, or else we'll hear complaints about it in four years from unknowing victims. This may end up alienating the Accu-chek/Disetronic company (I like how they slapped the Accu-chek name on it, as it sounds better than Disetronic after the recall issue).

I don't know if you could fool the device by changing the date back a year, or if it's based on its "total in-use time" clock, which could not be altered.

[Funnygrl]

Originally Posted by JasonJayhawk

Trifona,

You are correct about the Spirit's pre-programmed death.

I was looking at the Spirit, and discovered in the manual that it STOPS working once the timer goes off. It cannot be reset by the end-user. This means you are buying the "licensed rights" to use the pump for four years. I hope people discover this now, or else we'll hear complaints about it in four years from unknowing victims. This may end up alienating the Accu-chek/Disetronic company (I like how they slapped the Accu-chek name on it, as it sounds better than Disetronic after the recall issue).

I don't know if you could fool the device by changing the date back a year, or if it's based on its "total in-use time" clock, which could not be altered.

I believe it's based on hours in use.

[trifona]

Originally Posted by Funnygrl

I believe it's based on hours in use.

That is correct...the time in a Disetronic pump runs down as long as there is a battery installed.

[JediSkipdogg]

I think I may call to ask for a SPirit rep and see what they have to say on this in my area. I love a good argument.

[melissata]

The google chart and the diabetes mall both say that the warranty on the Spirit is 6 years. The pump is only waterproof for 1 hour. We found that out the hard way with the Dtron. Totally forgot and the pump went crazy. Lucky they give you two, and it was fine after it dried out inside.

I am leaning towards the Cozmo as my daughters next pump. It was the one that I wanted for her first, but insurance wouldn't go along because it was too new. I am wondering if the insulin duration can be set to 1/2 hour or just one hour? She now has the Paradigm and it is only able to be set at full hours. Her duration is more than 2, but less than 3, so I would like to be able to set it at 2 1/2 hours. I know that one of them does this, but it may be the Animas. I also like the fact that you can set the bolus speed. I didn't like how quickly the bolus was delivered with the Dtron, and prefer the slowness of the Paradigm. I also like to be able to add a regular bolus to an ongoing extended bolus, but it isn't clear if you can do this with the Cozmo?

[Dewey]

I moved the posts & gave this thread its own title, because the topic of the other thread is to make lists of pros/cons of each pump that you all have personally had experience with. You all are more than welcome to make your own lists about the pumps you've used/worked with.

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

I think I may call to ask for a SPirit rep and see what they have to say on this in my area. I love a good argument.

LMAO, Don't I know it! (J/k!)

[notme]

That would definitely be a deal breaker for me. I don't want a shelf life on my pump. Heck....my pancreas did that already and I wasn't happy.

[Funnygrl]

Originally Posted by melissata

I am leaning towards the Cozmo as my daughters next pump.

Good choice.

I am wondering if the insulin duration can be set to 1/2 hour or just one hour? She now has the Paradigm and it is only able to be set at full hours. Her duration is more than 2, but less than 3, so I would like to be able to set it at 2 1/2 hours. I know that one of them does this, but it may be the Animas.

Duration of insulin action can be set from 2 hours through 8 hours in 15 minute increments.

I also like to be able to add a regular bolus to an ongoing extended bolus, but it isn't clear if you can do this with the Cozmo?

You can. I do this fairly regularly if I go out to eat...combo bolus for the meal, then later a standard bolus for desert.

[trifona]

Originally Posted by melissata

The google chart and the diabetes mall both say that the warranty on the Spirit is 6 years.

If so, then they're wrong, the warranty is only 4 years:

Disetronic USA - Warranty Page

[Dewey]

I'm very interested to know if there's a way to disable that stupid timer by either hardware or software....

I think it's awful that they have that, personally.

[trifona]

Originally Posted by JasonJayhawk

Trifona,

You are correct about the Spirit's pre-programmed death.

I was looking at the Spirit, and discovered in the manual that it STOPS working once the timer goes off. It cannot be reset by the end-user. This means you are buying the "licensed rights" to use the pump for four years. I hope people discover this now, or else we'll hear complaints about it in four years from unknowing victims. This may end up alienating the Accu-chek/Disetronic company (I like how they slapped the Accu-chek name on it, as it sounds better than Disetronic after the recall issue).

I don't know if you could fool the device by changing the date back a year, or if it's based on its "total in-use time" clock, which could not be altered.

Jason,

What doesn't make sense is that on the top of page 159 of the Spirit Reference manual, it states:

"Contact Pump Support @ 1-800-688-4578 to discuss your options for further use of the Accu-Chek Spirit insulin pump"

When I called Pump support last night, I was told that I had no options for further use of my current pumps once I had an E5. First he thought I wanted a free inspection (He bagan babbling something about how could they make a profit doing so or some similar nonsense). Personally, I don't think its unreasonable to pay a nominal amount for a safety inspection and reset the timer on a pump if someone wishes to continue using it. Then he wouldn't get off his tangent as to why I wouldn't want a better more advanced pump.

So either:

A) The person in pump support misrepresented what options I and everyone else with an H-TRON or D-TRON have for further use of these pumps.

B) Roche/Accu Chek/Disetronic have different E5 policies for the Spirit vs the H-TRON & D-TRON pumps. If this is the case and it is a safety issue, why weren't these pumps required to be sent back as opposed to the soft recall they conducted? And why wasn't this made more clear as opposed to the low key notification that the wording of the E5 & A5 was changing? I dont recall any important communications about this being sent out by the company.

C) The manual is alluding to options that dont exist for Spirit users. Or you have to trust them not to change their tune 4 years after you buy their pump.

Can someone else with an old Disetronic call pump support to see what kind of answer they get?

[melissata]

Originally Posted by Funnygrl

Good choice.

Duration of insulin action can be set from 2 hours through 8 hours in 15 minute increments.

You can. I do this fairly regularly if I go out to eat...combo bolus for the meal, then later a standard bolus for desert.

Thanks for that info! It is looking more and more like the Cozmo will be her next pump. I was steering clear of them because of someone on another board having a son with lots of problems. They stuck with it anyway, and discovered after he grew and stopped dropping it on the floor so much that it was fine. He went through many pumps in the first couple of years, but loved it so much that he wouldn't make the switch.

As far as the Spirit goes, they are doomed to never regain the market in this country with that kind of nonsence! People are too unsure of their jobs and health insurance these days to get a pump with an expiration date. I hope the word gets out, because they certainly won't be warning people. The warnings about their pump problems downplayed the seriousness, but my insurance rep got the real facts. That is why they let everyone change. That was a pretty big deal because this pump was only a couple of months old. They didn't know if they were going to get anything back from Disetronic for the pumps, but still payed for new ones for all of their customers. With all of the great choices out there, I wouldn't even consider the Spirit. They sent me the info, because 3 years later still think we are using their pump!

[trifona]

I called Disetronic Pump support this afternoon and spoke to a 2nd agent.

It is confirmed, they will NOT reset the timers on any H-TRON or D-TRON pumps once the Technical Inspection Due alarm has been triggered. If you are still under warranty, I would suggest to any users to call and get a warranty replacement fo whatever reason you find necessary

The ONLY explanation given to me was that they've discontinued the Inspections now that the Spirit is available. I asked what If I didn't have insurance to purchase another pump, no difference, they would not reactivate the old pumps.

When I questioned her on what the options are for "further use" of the Spirit Pump once the timer expires, as per the user manual on page 159, all she could say was that she would forward me to the product specialist's mailbox. To me it sounds as if there are NO options and they just want to hook you in.

When I objected citing the change in 'policy' to H-Tron & D-Tron I asked her why would I want a Spirit pump when in 4 years it would only be good for a doorstop? Afterall, if they can screw H-Tron & D-Tron pump customers, they can do the same to you in 4 years when they have a replacement for the Spirit.

[Dewey]

This is important info for those considering this pump, and I appreciate your info. on this.