[camjen1]

What I have seen is a topic can be started and then towards the end it's all about MM and how they did this to me and what features the pumps don't have and how inaccurate certain things are. It's ALWAYS MM!!! And it's from people who aren't even associated with MM.

Jedi, yes the thread was started in humor and it was quite humorous but people thought it was their chance to take a stab at MM and the posts continued after that. Would it have been okay to butt my nose in the upgrading of the Cosmo thread and say the reason I didn't go with Cosmo is because their buttons fall off? Here these Cosmo users are having a decent conversation and I add my 2 cents in nowhere near related to the topic. How would that make me look?

If anyone had a negative experience with MM why are you complaining here? Shouldn't you be complaining to them? Or better yet if you have another companies pump then MOVE ON. Why waste life continuously b****ing about a certain pump company?

Oh and for those of you who don't agree with the advertising then step up and donate. I can't believe people have the nerve to complain about ads when this site has always been free and helpful since day one.

[Doug]

If it gets to the point that sharing experiences you had with a particular company is deemed bad, for whatever reason, then the value of the forum is decreased in my opinion

Minimed is the 800 lb gorilla in the industry, they sell more that every other maker, and have more aggressive sales people than every other maker.

As the leader in the industry, it shouldn't be surprising that there are LOTS of topics about them. And it shouldn't be surprising that other pumps features, and price and customer service are compared to theirs since once again they are "the team to beat" so to speak.

It shouldn't be surprising that there are more negative comments about MM because they have sold MANY more devices than the other companies so there are many more chances for both good and BAD experiences.

Its like car websites, the Ford fans love their Fords and often dislike Chevys, just because they are Chevys... Ford fans often love Ford just because they bought a Ford, its what they know and they want to feel good about their decision.

As far as the ads go, websites, the software that makes them run, the electricity, bandwidth and support they need are not free. Supporting the kind of traffic that this site gets is NOT cheap. Most sites use advertising of some kind to HELP pay the bills. The Google ads are NOT invasive, they dont pop up or pop under, they dont move or shake or make noise or flash. And we dont have to endure constant fund raising requests ...

Let the eyerolling begin :smartass:

[Lilly164]

"Move ON" reflects my sentiments. A weird thing about negative stories is how long they hang on.
ME. "When did this happen".
Them. "Two years ago"

Get over it!!!

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Lilly164

"Move ON" reflects my sentiments. A weird thing about negative stories is how long they hang on.
ME. "When did this happen".
Them. "Two years ago"

Get over it!!!

Its posts like this that attack the messenger rather than the message that are inappropriate

Originally Posted by Lilly164

ME. "When did this happen".

Since you asked - it was last week

[JasonJayhawk]

Woah, now. I'm not complaining about the presence of ads.

I'm trying to say that when a scientific journal has advertising, the reader/end user must be careful with their reports, searching for advertiser bias.

My fear in why the "bad" reports of pumps are deemed "bad" on the forum is simply due to the hopeful desire that pump companies will see this as an open place to advertise.

I think that'd be great for the pump companies to advertise -- as I said, CWD makes $50K+ per month with their front page ads alone.

But if saying something "bad" about pump companies is due to the desire to support advertising, then that would be deemed as a conflict of interest. Essentially, "false advertising" -- making every pump company look like it's nothing but great service, no bad experiences.

Camjen, have you actually looked into the costs of running a web server/forum? Check out the prices for 1&1 for starters. -- I'm really curious what it costs, too!

Now don't put words in my mouth for attacking the advertising -- in fact, I only mentioned a couple of examples of the Google advertisements on the site. It was you who thought I didn't agree with the ads, not me.

I am only attacking the thought that the desire to avoid "bad talk" about pumps us coming from the desire to have sponsors for those same products. Does that make better sense? Sometimes it's hard for me to describe what I'm thinking.

My fear is a newbie will come on here and think the advertising is something that we as a forum "support". Do you support Diabeticine? Do you support that company that will claim to give you a "free glucose meter" for providing your insurance information, only to find out it was for some other purpose?

I'd love to see advertising from reputable companies, such as the pump companies -- but if the pump companies are going to require that we talk "nice" about them all, then once again, little good comes out of it.

In addition--if pump company "bad mouthing" is to be removed, shouldn't "continuous glucose sensor bad mouthing" be removed, as well? Where does the slippery-slope end?

Web sites like Planet Feedback allow people to post their experiences with a company. Where can people discuss their experiences with pump companies, openly and honestly?

Does that make sense, or am I obfusicating this even more?

[Injecto]

Originally Posted by Dewey

I love each & every pump company out there. I'm extremely grateful that we even have such technology & gadgets to help us lead better lives...but, I'm also very aware that NO pump or company is perfect, and each & every one of them has their share of flaws

Exactly. I am terribly grateful that there are three big pump companies out there (that I'm aware of here in Canada at least) and frankly the more the merrier. You see, from a simple business point of view having several companies focusing on one specific technology shows a few things. 1 - it demonstrates that there is a market for a product. 2 - it shows that there are several people who are genuinely interested in creating such a product.

In this instance, we, the diabetics are the consumers.

Where each company has a flaw you will see the others jump on that flaw to improve it: Better for consumers.

Where each company has a breakthrough idea/produce, others will attempt it for their own product: Better for consumers.

Each company is financially concerned with their own well being, which will make them try and gain more of the market share by offering the best technology ever with regular improvements: Better for consumers.

I can go on and on, but there is no need in my opinion. The point is made.

I for one love the fact that there are several companies involved in creating the "ultimate pump" as I can only benefit from the variety available. As a result there is no point in pump bashing. There should only be pump embracing.

[JediSkipdogg]

Originally Posted by JasonJayhawk

In addition--if pump company "bad mouthing" is to be removed, shouldn't "continuous glucose sensor bad mouthing" be removed, as well? Where does the slippery-slope end?

That's what I mentioned in my previous post and everyone must have missed that. There is bashing of CGMS on here quite often and sometimes even by the ones using that device. What's the difference if one is bashing about the customer service prior to getting the device of the device itself? It's all the same IMO.

Now, if I bash and say that I hate the menu layout on the MM, then that's wrong since I haven't used one for a long time and gotten use to the way they are layed out. That would be like me saying I hate a Mac OS for the Internet yet I've never used one.

The same about other companies also applies to mail order catalogs and doctors. Granted on the doctors one I rarely see names mentioned, if ever. However, on the mail order one there was one a few weeks ago about Liberty Medical and good and bad experiences with them. How's that any different?

I think Jason hit it on the head though about the #1 company. When you control 80% of the market you are going to take 80% of the bad mouthing which is 4 times more than the other companies combined.

Heck, wasn't there some Spirit bashing on here and isn't there an entire thread to the Spirit pump that is nothing but bashing it? And that's been up a month and I GUARANTEE YOU...NOBODY on here has probably even worn one yet, let alone own one.

And I guess nobody is allowed to say the Omnipod's Pod is huge unless they have actually worn one. Even if it looked like it was the size of a car.

What I'd like to see is some uniformity then instead of it just being about pump companies. Or it being some other way.

[NoelD]

Some seem to not realize that this is Tony's place, to run as HE sees fit. If you don't like his rules, suck it up, deal with it and stop whining, or simply move on.

[JediSkipdogg]

Originally Posted by NoelD

Some seem to not realize that this is Tony's place, to run as HE sees fit. If you don't like his rules, suck it up, deal with it and stop whining, or simply move on.

So far I see this thread as a GOOD "debate." This country and would would be nowhere if debates didn't happen. If everyone just let everything go on without questioning, then this world would really suck. So I think it's good in asking so viable questions as to why things are the way they are.

[NoelD]

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

So far I see this thread as a GOOD "debate." This country and would would be nowhere if debates didn't happen. If everyone just let everything go on without questioning, then this world would really suck. So I think it's good in asking so viable questions as to why things are the way they are.

Yea, you're right, question away by all means, but you may not like the answers or get any answers, and if not, so what? This is not government afterall, this is a privately owned forum.

[notme]

I think this topic is going way off the original meaning. Dewey, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I think the whole point is we have threads that are opened (like this one) that goes way off subject. Somehow it turns into a pump bashing thread when the original meaning was completely different.

Personal experience about a certain pump or questions about a pump function are helpful and enlightening. But when the subject changes and it turns into a "bash a pump" thread (and don't tell me that doesn't happen) then it ceases to be helpful and it becomes a personal soapbox.

We all need to remember that when you are derogatory about a pump that someone has chosen, you will create a defense mechanism and nasty posts will erupt. I think Dewey is just asking for a little more forethought in posting and less "shoot from the hip" type postings. A little thought before posting and hitting the "reply" button could certainly help keep subjects on topic and not a personal attack on someones pump choice.

Dewey, I apologize now if I spoke for you and misinturpreted your original post.

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by notme

I think this topic is going way off the original meaning. Dewey, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I think the whole point is we have threads that are opened (like this one) that goes way off subject. Somehow it turns into a pump bashing thread when the original meaning was completely different.

Personal experience about a certain pump or questions about a pump function are helpful and enlightening. But when the subject changes and it turns into a "bash a pump" thread (and don't tell me that doesn't happen) then it ceases to be helpful and it becomes a personal soapbox.

We all need to remember that when you are derogatory about a pump that someone has chosen, you will create a defense mechanism and nasty posts will erupt. I think Dewey is just asking for a little more forethought in posting and less "shoot from the hip" type postings. A little thought before posting and hitting the "reply" button could certainly help keep subjects on topic and not a personal attack on someones pump choice.

Dewey, I apologize now if I spoke for you and misinturpreted your original post.

Please don't apologize, Nancy. You said it all, and very well, I might add. I Never for one second, thought that Jedi's original post was intended to bash MiniMed. All he was doing was commenting on personal experience with regard to getting 24 brochures instead of one (which was silly/goofy, etc., LOL). I think from there, it somehow started getting off-topic & headed downhill.... Jason & Doug also made good points that MiniMed has most of the market share, and thus, they may be more prone to complaints when people experience frustrations.

Nancy, you made very good points in your post & I'm simply going to reiterate:

1. Please, people: TRY to stick to the topic at hand (reply as needed - heck, even throw in personal experience, but please be respectful of one another). If you deviate from the subject, then try to close the post with reference to the original topic.

2. Try to be kind & respectful to one another. Remember that just because you had a wonderful or poor experience with company x, doesn't mean that everyone will.

3. Remember folks, that this IS the Internet. What one person may consider funny, wrong, "bashing," etc., another may consider in a completely different light (i.e. not funny, right, personal experience, etc.).

4. Last, but certainly NOT least: Remember - ALL the companies that have worked hard over the years & that have created such advanced technologies are wonderful & I give props (kudos) to each & every one of them for their efforts (MiniMed, Animas, Deltec/Smiths, Disetronic/Accu-chek, Nipro, Dana Diabecare, Omnipod, etc). That said, we need to realize that NO one company is exempt from having flaws or issues! That includes ALL of the aforementioned companies....but when posting about an issue, try to be thoughtful of others who may like (or who have had good experiences with) a particular company.

I am leaving this thread open for further discussion, but if it deviates or becomes ugly, it Will be closed. Thank you Nancy, for your post & for your help!

[jenet]

Originally Posted by JediSkipdogg

That's what I mentioned in my previous post and everyone must have missed that. There is bashing of CGMS on here quite often and sometimes even by the ones using that device. What's the difference if one is bashing about the customer service prior to getting the device of the device itself? It's all the same IMO.

Now, if I bash and say that I hate the menu layout on the MM, then that's wrong since I haven't used one for a long time and gotten use to the way they are layed out. That would be like me saying I hate a Mac OS for the Internet yet I've never used one.

The same about other companies also applies to mail order catalogs and doctors. Granted on the doctors one I rarely see names mentioned, if ever. However, on the mail order one there was one a few weeks ago about Liberty Medical and good and bad experiences with them. How's that any different?

I think Jason hit it on the head though about the #1 company. When you control 80% of the market you are going to take 80% of the bad mouthing which is 4 times more than the other companies combined.

Heck, wasn't there some Spirit bashing on here and isn't there an entire thread to the Spirit pump that is nothing but bashing it? And that's been up a month and I GUARANTEE YOU...NOBODY on here has probably even worn one yet, let alone own one.

And I guess nobody is allowed to say the Omnipod's Pod is huge unless they have actually worn one. Even if it looked like it was the size of a car.

What I'd like to see is some uniformity then instead of it just being about pump companies. Or it being some other way.

hey, Hey, HEY! I love using my Mac on the internet!

Seriously, I think this raises an important point. It is valuable to have a place to ask for other people's thoughts about all of the various companies' products and services. And I think that the discussion should include allowing people to share why they made the choices they made.

It does seem though that extreme care is sometimes necessary to avoid unintended inflamation. Which is why when I do comment on pumps, insulin types (NPH vs. Lantus), food preferences, etc, I try to include statements like "in my experience", "for me" and "your mileage may vary (YMMV)". Now that I think of it, maybe I should save time and put something like that in my signature block as a universal disclaimer.

cheers,
j

[Carwy]

I have been reading about this and watching some of the threads where company bashing is going on. I believe that people should be able to state what is good and bad with a company in a constructive way. This is how companies learn. I believe this all came about because Jedi had posted about getting 24 brochures from MM. I do not understand their logic behind sending him 24 when 1 is more then enough for anyone on this forum. All of you on this forum ask questions about everything before you make a choice about the things you do involving your diabetes. The companies need to understand that you folks know more about all the different equipment for treating your diabetes then they will ever know. Most of the people who come up with this stuff get the ideas from you folks anyway.
So I think all you need to take a step back and look at the big picture. All companies use a person to bash another company to make them look good. This is the some thing they do in all parts of life. You as a group need to stand up and say, Hey we are not going to be used that way anymore. If you companies want to bash each other then leave me out of it. All I will do is give the people my pros and cons of the experiences I have had with all companies.