[reefedjib]

I am now starting to monitor before a meal, +1 hr after and +2 hr after. I just went out a splurged on a McDonalds Breakfast: 1 Bacon Egg and Cheese Biscuit, 1 Hash Browns, 2 Medium OJs. My BG went from 186 before the meal to 394 at 1 hour after the meal! Total carbs was 138g! Bad move I know!

Slightly OT: I am not currently shooting a bolus based on carbs, only based on BG before the meal. Anyways, I am exploring what it would actually be if I were taking them based on carbs. Based on weight (230 lbs), my I:C ratio is 1:8. Therefore my insulin to cover carbs is 138/8 = 17 units. My sensitivity factor is 21-26, based on 70 units total daily insulin - I choose 21 since I run a high BG. With a target BG of 120, I take (186 - 120)/21 = 3 units to correct BG. There is no physical activity, so the activity multiplier is 1.0. 17 units for carbs and 3 units for BG gives me a 20 unit bolus. Am I doing this right?

Cheers!

[Josselyn]

I know nothing of insulin; I'm in the earlier stage of this thing. I'm still trying to process the breakfast you ate at McDonald's... I'm sorry, I'm very new to this and my diagnosis still scares the pants off me, but if I ever saw a number that approached 394, ever, I'd probably stroke out.

Please don't do that to yourself.

[reefedjib]

Originally Posted by Josselyn

I know nothing of insulin; I'm in the earlier stage of this thing. I'm still trying to process the breakfast you ate at McDonald's... I'm sorry, I'm very new to this and my diagnosis still scares the pants off me, but if I ever saw a number that approached 394, ever, I'd probably stroke out.

Please don't do that to yourself.

lol! 394 actually on the low side of what my BG is typically after eating throughout the day. My highest score is 499. This has everything to do with my diet I am learning (and lack of exercise as well). Over the past week I have consciously avoided carbs and I am seeing numbers in the 200s and even high 100s for the first time ever. I went for some comfort food this morning and got a chance to see its effect first hand. A learning experience like all that this disease offers.

At some point I am going to have to limit fat intake as well since I have astronomical cholesteral numbers too. I am rather pissed off that I have to follow a strict diet, but the numbers speak for themselves.

[Josselyn]

Hi Rob. If you dump the carbs, the fats do not increase your cholesterol level, and may well reduce it. That's the beauty of low carb, you can still have cheese, butter, meats, eggs, etc. (ala Dr. Atkins) and without an appreciable amount of eaten carb with them, the fat does no harm. The body learns to burn fat as a fuel source (and has to work to do so) when one eats on a low carb regime as opposed to the easier-to-burn carbs (especially the white ones) one normally might eat. I'm sure others have their input, but I have always lost weight best (and in the right places) that way. I should have stayed with it - maybe I wouldn't be a Type 2 right now (sigh). My carb addictions got the best of me, it seems...

[reefedjib]

Originally Posted by Josselyn

Hi Rob. If you dump the carbs, the fats do not increase your cholesterol level, and may well reduce it. That's the beauty of low carb, you can still have cheese, butter, meats, eggs, etc. (ala Dr. Atkins) and without an appreciable amount of eaten carb with them, the fat does no harm. The body learns to burn fat as a fuel source (and has to work to do so) when one eats on a low carb regime as opposed to the easier-to-burn carbs (especially the white ones) one normally might eat. I'm sure others have their input, but I have always lost weight best (and in the right places) that way. I should have stayed with it - maybe I wouldn't be a Type 2 right now (sigh). My carb addictions got the best of me, it seems...

Really? No kidding? That's pretty sweet. My nutritionist was trying to get me to cut fat out of my diet, saying that it prolongs carb action (which it does I do believe), but if I limit my carb intake there isn't much for fat to prolong. She wasn't telling me to cut carbs, so I no longer see her.

Thanks for the info!

[matingara]

Originally Posted by reefedjib

Really? No kidding? That's pretty sweet. My nutritionist was trying to get me to cut fat out of my diet, saying that it prolongs carb action (which it does I do believe), but if I limit my carb intake there isn't much for fat to prolong. She wasn't telling me to cut carbs, so I no longer see her.

Thanks for the info!

Yes. NO KIDDING. i thought we already had this discussion once before? (excuse my memory - if i am wrong).

Nutritionists are really not worth your time or concern for where you are right now.

Cut WAY back on the carbs. Way Way back - like < 30grams per day. and i almost guarantee your cholesterol and triglyceride numbers will have your doctor asking you "how the heck did you do this???".

if you cut way back on the carbs - ramp up on the protein and fat so and eat enough so that you feel full. not eating enough at this stage will almost guarantee that you fall back and snack on carbs! so snack on cheese and salami and pork rinds and nuts.

please at least try. it works for a lot of people.

regarding the mcdonalds breakfast. next time you feel the urge - SKIP the OJ, skip the Hash browns. Order black coffee. Order 3 bacon and egg burgers (or whatever they call them). throw away the muffins and/or bread and just eat the middles.

i have not been to macdonalds in years - but i seem to remember the middles are ham and cheese and eggs only (???).



-- Joel.

[reefedjib]

Originally Posted by matingara

Yes. NO KIDDING. i thought we already had this discussion once before? (excuse my memory - if i am wrong).

Nutritionists are really not worth your time or concern for where you are right now.

Cut WAY back on the carbs. Way Way back - like < 30grams per day. and i almost guarantee your cholesterol and triglyceride numbers will have your doctor asking you "how the heck did you do this???".

if you cut way back on the carbs - ramp up on the protein and fat so and eat enough so that you feel full. not eating enough at this stage will almost guarantee that you fall back and snack on carbs! so snack on cheese and salami and pork rinds and nuts.

please at least try. it works for a lot of people.

regarding the mcdonalds breakfast. next time you feel the urge - SKIP the OJ, skip the Hash browns. Order black coffee. Order 3 bacon and egg burgers (or whatever they call them). throw away the muffins and/or bread and just eat the middles.

i have not been to macdonalds in years - but i seem to remember the middles are ham and cheese and eggs only (???).



-- Joel.

No, this would be the first time I have heard about it. It is all new to me and I am trying to understand and set the proper course.

I wont be going back to McDonalds for breakfast. It's bacon and eggs for me.

< 30 grams of carbs is pretty aggresive but I'll work it out. I will at least try.

Thanks for the feedback.

[GeishaGirl]

Yeah, no kidding Even the Mayo Clinic has released a statement online that low-carbing can decrease cholesterol. Here's the weird thing: your body can only produce fat through insulin. That's a fact. Insulin takes the blood glucose you're not using immediately, puts some of it into the liver, and the rest gets converted immediately into fat. Now, here's the interesting part: insulin ONLY works on blood glucose -- 95% of which comes from carbs! (You can get a little from protien). So, if you lower your carbs, there is virtually NOTHING in your body that can be converted into fat! Therefore, you start BURNING fat for fuel. That's the release of ketones (byproduct of burning fat). It is a perfectly acceptable form of fuel for the body -- don't let people tell you that the brain NEEDS glucose. It doesn't. It PREFERS glucose (the same way we PREFER doughnuts over rye toast, let's say!) but there's a mechanism in the brain set up to use ketones. It just takes a few days to kick in -- the same way it takes us a few days (or more!) to learn to like "healthy" food over unhealthy food.

Here's the other interesting part: triglycerides (that annoying marker for heart disease) can ALSO only be made from carbs. Lower carbs = lower tris. Same thing with cholesterol. Cool, huh?

If you can, try to read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. I'll be honest, I'm an English teacher and I could only read the first 100 pages -- but those 100 pages changed the way I see EVERYTHING about nutrition.

Skip the nutritionist. Did you know that 150 years ago, the FIRST thing someone did when they wanted to lose weight was stop eating bread and pastry? Not meat, not bacon -- bread. I've even found references to it in Jane Austen, Agatha Christie, and several other "period" authors now that I'm looking. (Yes, I know Agatha Christie was the early 1900's -- but that's still before the 50's, when the "fat is bad" craze started).

Okay, I'm done now

[ShottleBop]

Originally Posted by GeishaGirl

If you can, try to read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. I'll be honest, I'm an English teacher and I could only read the first 100 pages -- but those 100 pages changed the way I see EVERYTHING about nutrition

If you want the biochemistry, written in a more conversational vocabulary, check out James Carlson's Genocide:How Your Doctor's Dietary Ignorance Will Kill You.

[GeishaGirl]

Originally Posted by ShottleBop

If you want the biochemistry, written in a more conversational vocabulary, check out James Carlson's Genocide:How Your Doctor's Dietary Ignorance Will Kill You.

Oooh, I've never heard of that one! I'll have to get that out of the library!

[dbaratta]

Slightly OT: I am not currently shooting a bolus based on carbs, only based on BG before the meal. Anyways, I am exploring what it would actually be if I were taking them based on carbs. Based on weight (230 lbs), my I:C ratio is 1:8. Therefore my insulin to cover carbs is 138/8 = 17 units. My sensitivity factor is 21-26, based on 70 units total daily insulin - I choose 21 since I run a high BG. With a target BG of 120, I take (186 - 120)/21 = 3 units to correct BG. There is no physical activity, so the activity multiplier is 1.0. 17 units for carbs and 3 units for BG gives me a 20 unit bolus. Am I doing this right?

Cheers![/quote]

Sounds right to me, but why not try a healthier breakfast so you don't have to take so much insulin? I know, you want to tell me to kiss off. LOL

[Gordonm]

I am a type 1 and if my numbers were like yours I would really try to do something drastic. If my BS is 186 even before a meal I just will not eat. Your BS is going to go up and the higher it rises the ,ore insuling resistant you will become and the more insulin you will need. I will not eat until my BS is below 120. I know mine will go up but if it goes up 100 points that is 220 not in the 300s or 400s. Just because it is 6 or 7 AM does not mean you have to eat. I realize with some jobs and some instances you have to eat but the old adage of diabetics have to eat at certain times is not real anymore. Keep at it and learn all you can. You will get a good education here. Keep asking questions. I have had type 1 for 35 years and am still learning.

[DannyK]

Originally Posted by Gordonm

I am a type 1 and if my numbers were like yours I would really try to do something drastic. If my BS is 186 even before a meal I just will not eat. Your BS is going to go up and the higher it rises the ,ore insuling resistant you will become and the more insulin you will need. I will not eat until my BS is below 120. I know mine will go up but if it goes up 100 points that is 220 not in the 300s or 400s. Just because it is 6 or 7 AM does not mean you have to eat. I realize with some jobs and some instances you have to eat but the old adage of diabetics have to eat at certain times is not real anymore. Keep at it and learn all you can. You will get a good education here. Keep asking questions. I have had type 1 for 35 years and am still learning.

Wise man......

[reefedjib]

Originally Posted by GeishaGirl

Yeah, no kidding

Now, here's the interesting part: insulin ONLY works on blood glucose -- 95% of which comes from carbs! (You can get a little from protien). So, if you lower your carbs, there is virtually NOTHING in your body that can be converted into fat! Therefore, you start BURNING fat for fuel.

Here's the other interesting part: triglycerides (that annoying marker for heart disease) can ALSO only be made from carbs. Lower carbs = lower tris. Same thing with cholesterol. Cool, huh?

Skip the nutritionist. Did you know that 150 years ago, the FIRST thing someone did when they wanted to lose weight was stop eating bread and pastry? Not meat, not bacon -- bread. I've even found references to it in Jane Austen, Agatha Christie, and several other "period" authors now that I'm looking. (Yes, I know Agatha Christie was the early 1900's -- but that's still before the 50's, when the "fat is bad" craze started).

Okay, I'm done now

Thanks for the very readable explanation! Other than try to lower my carb intake just through menu selection, I suppose I ought to get into the Atkins diet. Would you recommend this?

Thanks also for the book recommendations, both you and ShottleBop. I'll try to get ahold of them.

[reefedjib]

Originally Posted by dbaratta

Slightly OT: I am not currently shooting a bolus based on carbs, only based on BG before the meal. Anyways, I am exploring what it would actually be if I were taking them based on carbs. Based on weight (230 lbs), my I:C ratio is 1:8. Therefore my insulin to cover carbs is 138/8 = 17 units. My sensitivity factor is 21-26, based on 70 units total daily insulin - I choose 21 since I run a high BG. With a target BG of 120, I take (186 - 120)/21 = 3 units to correct BG. There is no physical activity, so the activity multiplier is 1.0. 17 units for carbs and 3 units for BG gives me a 20 unit bolus. Am I doing this right?

Cheers!

Sounds right to me, but why not try a healthier breakfast so you don't have to take so much insulin? I know, you want to tell me to kiss off. LOL[/quote]

Kiss off! Just kidding! ;-) I am very resistant to changing my diet, but I have been doing so, other than breakfast, for the past 3 days or so and am seeing my BG numbers < 200 for the first time. I am sold. I just need to implement, but am finding it difficult. I did forego the MickyD's beakfast this morning and had sausage and eggs. Tasty. Thanks for confirming my numbers!