The best way to burn belly fat is through aerobic exercise

[Ela]

Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes then. I'm type 1 and have been since age 5. Clearly type 2 is a different kettle of fish.

Yep! And while we must reduce the carbs that we can't cover with insulin, we got to it something . But I'm glad we came to an understanding.

Well, here's the point. If you are dieting to lose weight, then generally, you'll be eating less. So I'm not really sure you 'need' to replace the fat. You just carry on with what you were eating before, but with less fat.

And you're absolutely right this is a 'diabetic' forum. The problem is, despite the valiant efforts of a small, vocal minority with their own agenda to say otherwise, there are multiple routes to a healthy diet with diabetes. Discussing cutting down fat on a 'diabetic' forum is not necessarily bad advice. Hamish has obviously found cutting down fat works for him; Nick has found the opposite has worked for him. Both approaches are valid and they both should be congratulated on finding ways that have helped them reduce their weight and improve their health.

Deus,

I agree that if you want to lose weight, generally eating less makes sense and I'm sure nobody is arguing this point.

However "eating less" is NOT equal to "reduce the fat".

And "small minority" you mentioned to me rather looks like the "Type 2 majority + some Type 1, who can't handle the carbs well". For some of us there are just not too many options.

And I have a hunch why this group is so vocal - imagine all of a sudden you can't eat most foods you are used to all your life, just regular everyday food as your bagel and orange juice in the morning, sugar in your coffee, regular sandwich that everybody eats every day, potatoes, rice, pasta... And forget about candy or a cake unless you made it yourself special or checked it and rechecked it with the label and your meter...it's frustrating.

And when you finally kind of settled on your menu through the pain and tears and spikes, seeing meanwhile other people around you eating blissfully their french fries and pizzas - the last thing you want to hear is "reduce the fat" sentiment. The thing is we are already "reduced".

[DeusXM]

However "eating less" is NOT equal to "reduce the fat".

Not exclusively so. But let's look at this the way I was looking at it. Say you eat 3,000 cal a day and your calorie requirement is actually 2500. Then you go on a low-fat diet which brings down your intake to 2,000 cal a day. If you don't replace those fat calories with something else, you're getting less energy through your diet than you need, meaning your body has to metabolise its own fat to make up the shortfall. I know calories in/calories out is a questionable theory but the fact is that people who are obese tend to eat far more calories than they need, while people who are underweight tend to eat far fewer. It's not a perfect system but eating less can play a role in weight loss - particularly if like hamish you incorporate exercise to prevent metabolic slowdown.

And "small minority" you mentioned to me rather looks like the "Type 2 majority + some Type 1, who can't handle the carbs well". For some of us there are just not too many options.

I'm not so sure. The point I was making is there is a small group of people in the world of diabetes who actively resist and criticise any approach that doesn't involve cutting down carbs at all times. I am not convinced the majority of T2s believe this - I think that many if not all T2s would be the first to say that cutting carbs worked for them. But I don't think most of them would criticise people for getting good results through alternative methods, regardless of type. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows?

And I have a hunch why this group is so vocal - imagine all of a sudden you can't eat most foods you are used to all your life, just regular everyday food as your bagel and orange juice in the morning, sugar in your coffee, regular sandwich that everybody eats every day, potatoes, rice, pasta... And forget about candy or a cake unless you made it yourself special or checked it and rechecked it with the label and your meter...it's frustrating.

Yep, we've all got a sucky deal. I'm sure there's plenty of T1s in here who've found themselves in hospital on a drip because they ate too few carbs in relation to their insulin and blacked out. You'd expect them to perhaps be obsessed with making sure people eat loads of carbs, but for some reason the only people who really push that line are the nutritionists, who as we've discussed aren't necessarily the best people to ask about diet and diabetes.

Let other people stuff themselves with fatty, carby chips and pizzas if they want to - no-one's ever going to give dietary advice supporting you eat those foods.There's better things to get upset about than the realisation that unhealthy food choices will make you unhealthy.

[inkvisitor]

Very well worded, and thanks. If it works, it works, if it doesn't try something else! ;-)

^Exactly. Net calories in/out worked well for me up until ten pounds of my goal - now it seems that a higher level of a combination of aerobic exercises and weight training does best in conjunction with it (I keep a quite meticulous food and exercise diary).

Also, lower carb *and* lower fat intake is beneficial for me as well, but I have to make compromises! (usually upping the carbs, lowering the fat, and yes - being a type 1 I can attempt to cover with insulin).

[hamish]

I think this is my first involvement in a blog 'discussion'!
Thought I'd throw in this one.... I eat plenty of carbs, mostly from potatoes, pasta and fruit. I suppose this is a hidden benefit of being type 1! With the level of exercise I do I need to get energy in quickly especially with low blood sugar.
I do miss the odd pizza but they used to completely mess by sugar levels up hours after eating. I could counter that effect with the pump I now have.... One day maybe!
So as far as I can see, bearing in mind I'm not well versed in diets, is that as a type 1 who wants to remain fit and exercise a lot I need carbs. Fat really wouldn't work.
I do stand to be corrected on this however....

[NickP]

Thanks Nick. When you say too much cardio puts stress on your body, what sort of cardio are you talking about? If someone is fit then that statement would seem odd. If they're not then may be not so odd!

Hey Hamish,

For many folks, cardio means running or aerobics, both of which can cause damage to your joints. Plus, high levels of cardio can release cortisol, which is a stress hormone. Many folks will literally exercise for many hours a week, which at that point, the negatives can outweight the positives.

YMMV....but the solution to weight issues is not exercise alone. Exercise has many positive influences on your health, but to manage your your weight, it is 90% what you eat.

[hamish]

Well yes, I have said the same. Effective weight loss is a joint effort with diet and exercise. Low impact exercise is the key here, so cycling, brisk walking, many gym cardio machines. No excuses there really.

[PINK]

[QUOTE=Caravaggio;706444]

IMHO - I don't agree. While exercise and moving are beneficial, too much cardio adds stress to the body. A HIT strength work out is probably the best form of exercise.
QUOTE]

Too much cardio - I think that the key here is "too much". As in many things, too much of anything is not good and will likely result in harmful stress. The other side of the coin is "too little/few". The question of course is what is too much or too little/few, but that's for each individual to decide for himself as what is too much for one may be too little for another.

As for the study, I don't find it personally enlightening as I have always believed in a combination of cardio and strength training. For me, cardio and strength training should go together as they serve different functions. But what's more important is just doing what one likes to do, and listening to one's body. These days too few people know how to sensibly listen to their own bodies.

That, the sentences in bold, are so true for me.

[xMenace]

Well yes, I have said the same. Effective weight loss is a joint effort with diet and exercise. Low impact exercise is the key here, so cycling, brisk walking, many gym cardio machines. No excuses there really.

So why do 97% of diets fail?

I eat high fat first and foremost to be healthy. Weight loss is secondary. IMHO modern heart disease is cause by overconsumption of grains and sugars. Small, [dangerous] LDL and LDL MGmin are both results of sugar degredating LDL particles. There is zero demonstration explaning why fat is bad for us. Observatonal studies are actually quite neutral. I know a number skinny, healthy people with heart issues. I knew or knew of several skinny type 1's who kicked the bucket young from heart attacks.

[hamish]

They fail because, in most cases not all, the individual can not stick to the diet. A balanced diet is the way forwards whether diabetic or not.

[xMenace]

They fail because, in most cases not all, the individual can not stick to the diet. A balanced diet is the way forwards whether diabetic or not.

Weighing in on Type 2 Diabetes in the Military

Medical surveillance of the U.S. military indicates that the incidence of all types of diabetes is similar to that in the civilian population (1.9 vs. 1.6 cases per 1,000 person-years) despite weight and fitness standards.

What you are arguing is the caorie in vs calorie out case. We get fat because we eat too much It sounds simple enough, but some interesting discussion has taken place about this around the world, and there's some interesting science that offers sounder explanations. Bear with me please, I don't want to go on and on about something we can do little about.

Let's ask what obesity is first. It's a body that has acumulated calories; it's a body that has taken in more calories than it's expended. Plain enough I think, and there is no argument against it. Let's try something. Let's replace this definition of fat into your cause, well replace the word fat with this phrase every time we see it: We get a body that has taken in more calories than it's expended because we eat too much. What's missing from this hypothesis is cause. It offers no explantion of why we eat too much.

Now you are getting up in arms because the cause has been implied: self control. Actually your hypothesis is something like we get fat because we don't have the willpower to control what we eat and exercise enough.

There are several situations like the obesity epidemic in military organizations which this hypothesis doesn't support. If our armed forces don't have the discipline to eat properly and exercise, tell me who can? Who has more self control than a soldier? What kind of a society are we living in when our most disciplined organizations are obese? We also have an obesity epidemic amongst six month old babies. Please don't tell me they need to get on their eliptical machines! How do you explain them? Maybe their mothers are feeding them McDonalds? So now we have a bunch of mothers that are purposely making their kids fat? There are many cases, especially in poorer nations, where young children are suffering from malnutrition yet they are obese. Are they stealing food from their kids? No. The fact is, this hypothesis doesn't add up by any accounting method. If it was such a simple thing, really, don't you think we'd have overcome it already?

The science is actually quite clear on obesity. Medical textbooks since the 60's have taught that adiposity is controlled by insulin. It's a homeostasis issue. Reduce your insulin levels, and you will store less fat. BTW sodium works very similarly. Sodium consumption does practically nothing for system levels, but changing insulin levels has dramatic effects.

As a type 1 you of course understand that carbs demand more insulin than protein or fat, much more. drop the carb consumption you drop the need for insulin and fat is free to burn off. It doesn't mean it will, but it's free to. Calorie intake and exercise to play their parts. But the sad truth is if you don't change your carb ratios, you will eventually hit a wall. Hunger will overcome your willpower, and you will regain all tehy fat back, probably more than you lost. Your body wants to get to it's balance points.

My HFLC eating has lowered my balance pt. I just weighed in at 223.6 from a high of 249.6. I rarely go hungry.

I am exercising more too. I didn't lose weight because I exercised, I exercise ebcause I lost weight and more fuel is being directed to muscle. now if I don't exrcise, I fidgit like I'm on a coffee high until I do something. Glutony and sloth are not causes of obesity; they are symptoms.

Besides the weight, my eyes have shown zero damage in the last three+ years - I've been through a whole lot. My energy level is up, my sex life has improved, and my BP regularly tests 115/65 - my ACE is min dose. This is my 36th year with diabetes and I'm 50 years old.

[PINK]

Nick P wrote:
'Plus, high levels of cardio can release cortisol, which is a stress hormone. Many folks will literally exercise for many hours a week, which at that point, the negatives can outweight the positives.'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The recent study? Then I add my 2 c along the way.
It talked about pushing the cardio and or the weights to a higher and harder level. As in medium and above exercise that is geared specifically towards that persons capacity for comfortable tolerance and goes above it.

The body will see as stress: Any exercise which causes stress or too much excitement, as in pushing too hard, or pushing at a level which incites the bod to go into stress mode.

Many can do hours of cardio without this effect happening. If you take the same people and make them push extra hard THEN they release the stress hormones, which in turn raises the BGs and can stress the adrenals, which then slides into effecting fatigue and stress response and many other things.

I think this is a case of YMMV. My stress hormone release levels happen too quickly and then my pulse rate and heart get involved.
I have had to take it down a notch or two to keep my body from going into the stress zone. This way I will lose more weight and keep my bgs lower. It sure seems to be working! The weight is coming off and my bgs are really good.

[Michael_lambert]

I know i recently started to "Work out".

With talking with my GP and a Dietitian it was deemed it was safe to start hitting the gym to do some cardio.. I was told to bring my heart rate to 135-140ish and try and maintain that during my work cardio work ( Treadmill, Glide elliptical and Bike ) Being Morbidly obeast its not hard to get my heart rate up to 140 however it is a struggle to keep it below 140. I was told by a couple of physical trainers that to burn fat we want to stay with in 130-140.

Where i was struggling with cramps, i would do 10 mins of cardo and get really bad cramps and speaking with people and my GP it was said to be lactic acid and it was suggested working some muscle groups would help that. Working with a personal trainer versed in diabetes we have come up with a plan that seems to be working..

I come in and stretch, then jump on the bike for 10 mins to do a easy cycle to loosen things up keeping my heart rate around 110. I then do the weight machines for about 10 mins 2 sets of 10 reps on the legg press doing 70 pounds, doing this by rep 8 i start to feel some strain, Then i move on to a Ab machine where i do 50 pounds and again by around rep 8 i start to feel some strain and tightness and then finally on to a machine that does the lower back. After the weights i move to the tread mill for 15 mins at a moderate walk, then back to the bike for a moderate ride for 15 mins and finally a simple stretch, home for a protien shake and a quick soak in the bath with some epsom salts.

Doing this i find i feel much more energized in the morings as i work out usually around 8-9pm.

[lgvincent]

My efforts to lose weight have all failed. I don't know what has happened, my weight was steady until about 4 years ago and suddenly I started gaining a lot. Running, walking and bicycling didn't do spit (although I'm trying to save for a new bike and taking part in longer rides). Not eating didn't help, lowering my insulin didn't help, nothing has worked. I need to find out why I started gaining. Maybe that would help me stop and hopefully reverse it.

[nordgirl]

And you're absolutely right this is a 'diabetic' forum. The problem is, despite the valiant efforts of a small, vocal minority with their own agenda to say otherwise, there are multiple routes to a healthy diet with diabetes. Discussing cutting down fat on a 'diabetic' forum is not necessarily bad advice. Hamish has obviously found cutting down fat works for him; Nick has found the opposite has worked for him. Both approaches are valid and they both should be congratulated on finding ways that have helped them reduce their weight and improve their health.

Here here. My husband lost ALL the extra weight he carried around for the past 20 years by eating a low-fat low-carb diet. There is definitely more than one way to skin a cat. I think there is a lot of ignorance about what a well balanced vegan diet consists of, and doesn't have to be high carb. Knowledge is power.

[dccc]

So why do 97% of diets fail?

.

They fail because nobody can stay on a diet, lose weight and then go back to eating like they use to. I don't like the word "diet" it needs to be a lifestyle eating change to work and keep working. My Mom has been on every kind of "diet" there is and always gains back as much or more than she lost (she's now on weight watchers) but until she changes her eating lifestyle forever she will continually gain her weight back.