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Is ONE Unit of INSULIN Equal?

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#1
LCD

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"Think Like a Pancreas" by Gary Scheiner
"The more you weigh and the more insulin you take, the less every unit will lower your blood sugars." Pg 128

Sensitivity to Insulin based on Daily Insulin Useage - How much 1 unit lowers Blood Sugar

To determine your sensitivity factor:

Figure your average total daily insulin
Divide it into both 1,500 and 1,800.
The result is an approximate range of how much one unit of insulin will lower your blood sugar.

Example: 1500 / 28 = 54
1800 / 28 = 64
This means that every unit of insulin should lower BS approximately 54 – 64. (To simplify round off to 60.)

Is this "formula" the same for all types of insulin? Whether you take only rapid? Whether you take in longer acting? Whether you use a 70/30 Mix? Is ONE Unit of INSULIN Equal? *regardless of which type of insulin?

L I B B Y
We're all here because we're not all here ;)

Dx July 2007 as Type 2 - A1c 11%, :( Novolog 70/30, 30u am and 15u pm.
Past 1 1/2 years, gradually decreased insulin levels, improved diet and exercise
Lost 25 pounds
Jan. 1, 2009 - No Insulin


#2
BlueSky

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The 1500 rule applies to using fast acting insulin (Humalog, Novolog or Apidra) to do corrections. The 1800 rule applied to doing this with Regular. Basal insulin is not intended to bring blood sugar down and we need to use dosages that keep BG at a constant level. These rules also can't be applied to the use of mixed insulin because it contains both fast acting and basal.

I don't find the 1500 rule that useful. I find the amount of insulin required to correct a high depends a lot on the the level of the high, and a linear formula just doesn't work.
In my humble opinion :wink:

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Type1 since 1977
MDI using Lantus, Novorapid and Actrapid

#3
Mich

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I have the same experience as Blue Sky. It proportionally takes more insulin for me to lower a 300 to 100 than it does to lower a 150 to 100.

My correction factor is about 50 (changes during the day) so it takes one unit to go from 150 to 100. It would take me 3.75 units to go from 300 to 100 if all other things are the same.

Each person is different and my own experience is that the same person can be different under different circumstances such as illness, stress and other influences.

My experience with 70/30:
I found it easier taking extra injections and having better control of my basal and my bolus insulins. Even NPH (with no regular) with its 8 hour peak was a nightmare if I was sick and throwing up--trying to keep track of how much insulin I had to "feed" when I couldn't keep anything down. After switching, I did very well on Lantus and Humalog.
Just FYI.

Mich

#4
xMenace

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The time of day matters too. During early mornings I'm using about three times the correction dose I use in the afternoons or around midnight.

Virginia Woolf: “Consider how common illness is, how tremendous the spiritual change that it brings, how astonishing, when the lights of health go down, the undiscovered countries that are then disclosed, what wastes and deserts of the soul a slight attack of influenza brings to view, what precipices and lawns sprinkled with bright flowers a little rise of temperature reveals, what ancient and obdurate oaks are uprooted in us by the act of sickness, how we go down in the pit of death and feel the waters of annihilation close above our heads and wake thinking to find ourselves in the presence of the angels and the harpers when we have a tooth out and come to the surface in the dentist's arm-chair and confuse his "Rinse the mouth-rinse the mouth" with the greeting of the Deity stooping from the floor of Heaven to welcome us - when we think of this, as we are so frequently forced to think of it, it becomes strange indeed that illness has not taken its place with love and battle and jealousy among the prime themes of literature”
Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172


#5
Wild Hawg

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"I have the same experience as Blue Sky. It proportionally takes more insulin for me to lower a 300 to 100 than it does to lower a 150 to 100.

My correction factor is about 50 (changes during the day) so it takes one unit to go from 150 to 100. It would take me 3.75 units to go from 300 to 100 if all other things are the same.

Each person is different and my own experience is that the same person can be different under different circumstances such as illness, stress and other influences."


That is true in my case for sure. Diabetes has more wild cards than a riverboat gambler. About the time I get everything leveled, for no reason I suddenly need to change my insulin rates. Then it starts all over again. It sure gets frustrating, doesn't it?
Type I since 1993
Animas 2020 pump since 2007
(Apidra)





"...and on the eighth day, God created the Razorbacks."

#6
Tiger Lily

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yup, i gotta agree with everyone

if my bg is 9, then 1 unit of insulin will drop my bg too much, so i simply reduce my carb intake for that meal

if my bg is 15, then i need 15 units of insulin to 'bring it back into range'

go figure! i can't :)

#7
dbdb

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I'm a bit confused by this.

I take 10 of Lantus. How much wouls making that *11* change my bg?

#8
Real4

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I'm a bit confused by this.

I take 10 of Lantus. How much wouls making that *11* change my bg?


Lantus is a basal insulin meant to cover your basic underlying glucose output of your liver. If you were taking exactly the right amount of Lantus, your BG would stay the same as that reached 4 to 5 hours after a meal; it wouldn't go up or down.

If you then increased the Lantus by 1 unit, then your BG would slowly drop over the course of the day; after 24 hours you BG would be down 20, 40 60 points depending on how sensitive you are to insulin.

In your case, I suspect that you are a Type 2 taking a small dose of Lantus to "help out" the other medications or treatment. That's because of 1) you are taking ONLY Lantus, and 2) you are taking such a small dose. The same general considerations apply in your situation, but it is differeent from what what I do and most people on the forum do, so exactly what happens is hard to tell.

If your blood glucose stays rather high, say above 130, then I'd just try increasing the dose and seeing what happened. You need to wait about 3 days before you can tell exactly how a change works. I and many other, started at 10 units and then worked our way up to what is really effective for good control. I, for example, take over 50 units of Lantus per day (plus short acting Humalog also).

#9
BlueSky

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I'm a bit confused by this.

I take 10 of Lantus . How much wouls making that *11* change my bg?

The 1500 rule doesn't apply to Lantus, for the simple reason that you will probably eat several times while the daily Lantus dose is active. But you may see a gradual decline in the numbers over the 24 hours after injecting. Do 11 units of Lantus for a few days. And if blood glucose drops too much, just change back to the 10 unit dose. ;)
In my humble opinion :wink:

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Type1 since 1977
MDI using Lantus, Novorapid and Actrapid

#10
dbdb

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I had no idea that 1 unt made such a potentially large difference. Seems like the delivery system (pen) would have more than that much error in it..

#11
cheryl

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I do not even attempt a unit, unless I am over 200 LOL....I know, I am very fond of .5, and .4, sometimes it lowers me too much....I hate extremely hate correcting....I thank God I have the pump....because I'd be dead on the floor from all the insulin sensitvity I have...

When active I can be 1:100 high fat, I am stubborn it can be 1 unit to 60.....if I am high, high, I have to be really carful...I thought it would be ok to correct a 300 with three units once NOPE....I have to use 2 units and suffer the massive drop, and try not to be paranoid of the outcome...

it's not as fun, or the greatest to be so sensitive sometimes...

Cheryl
Don't know who I want as president, but I know I don't want to live like a communist....ENOUGH SAID.....

March a1c 6.4
Pumper 522 with Humalog

#12
rajeshcvaswani

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Will anyone enlighten me how much one unit of intravenous regular insulin lower blood sugar intraoperatively in a diabetic patient

#13
telizas

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Will anyone enlighten me how much one unit of intravenous regular insulin lower blood sugar intraoperatively in a diabetic patient


Everyone has a different Insulin Sensitivity Factor - how much one unit will change your blood sugar. There is no one answer to this. 1 unit for me drops my sugar about 40 points. Others will have VASTLY different results.
Type 2, Insulin Resistant, Metformin didn't work for me! Pumping insulin with a One Touch Ping! :D

#14
networkguy

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If Im under a BS of 200 (which is 95% of the time) 1u of Novalog lowers me about 40 points. However, at a 300bs, I need about 1.3u for the same drop of 40 points.

#15
NewdestinyX

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If Im under a BS of 200 (which is 95% of the time) 1u of Novalog lowers me about 40 points. However, at a 300bs, I need about 1.3u for the same drop of 40 points.

I get about a 30 point drop for each unit of insulin midday to bedtime. I need 1.5 units for that same drop from wakeup 'til noon. I use the Lantus and Novalog pens -- how do you guys get these .4/.5 amounts? Are you using syringes and viles instead of pens?
Grant

Dx 7/15/09 - A1c 10.6 :o; 10/26/09-7.2 :); 1/20/10-5.7 :D; 4/10/10-5.6 [Bayer Home Test] :D
Meds: Metformin XR 500mg-2/day, Lantus 16iu morning, Diovan 80mg-1/day,
Nexium 40mg-2/day, D3 2000iu, B12 2500mcg; Diet: for now, low carb:<70g/day
Weight mngm't: Down 30 lbs since Dx :thumbsup: Exercise reg: Biking in combo w/ 45 min at gym 3-4x/week

#16
Lloyd

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I get about a 10 point drop.

-Lloyd

2014 A1c 5.4 5.6 5.8   2013 5.3 4.9 5.2 5.2
2012 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.0
2011 5.0 5.0 5.2 5.0 2010 5.3 5.3 5.3 5.4 5.4
2009 5.4 5.4 5.3 5.2 2008 5.0 5.1 5.2 4.9 4.9
2007 5.3 5.5 5.7<---Pump 6.9 (Mix)
2006 (Lantus) 7.8 8.5 8.7 7.1
2005 8.4 6.9 7.4 2004 6.2 5.6 6.4 6.0 (Pills)


#17
Cormac_Doyle

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Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...

HbA1c
2007/2008 - Sept 07: 10.9; Feb 08: 8.5; Sept 08: 7.3;
2009 - Feb: 7.5; Apr: 6.4; Aug: 6.1;
2010 - Jan: 7.0; Mar: 6.4; Jun: 6.1; Oct: 5.9;
2011 - Jan: 6.4; Apr: 6.5; Aug: 6.3; Nov: 6.2;
2012 - Mar: 6.7; May: 6.3; June: 6.2; Sep: 5.4; Dec: 6.0;
2013 - Mar: 6.1; May: 6.5; July: 6.3; Nov: 6.1;
2014 - Apr: 6.3;

Meds - Glucophage: 2000mg; Omega 3: 4000mg; Crestor: 20mg; Victoza: 1.8mg; Humulin: 150-250 iu ( originally 1800-2400 iu daily)

Started Pump: 10th April 2011 - Minimed Paradigm Veo


#18
NewdestinyX

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Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg

WOW!! :eek: Now THAT'S what I call IR!!! That's unimaginable. And how does a Type 1.5 have that much IR anyway? I'm still pretty IR at 70lbs overweight -- but I still only need about 1 unit = 25-30point drop.
Grant

Dx 7/15/09 - A1c 10.6 :o; 10/26/09-7.2 :); 1/20/10-5.7 :D; 4/10/10-5.6 [Bayer Home Test] :D
Meds: Metformin XR 500mg-2/day, Lantus 16iu morning, Diovan 80mg-1/day,
Nexium 40mg-2/day, D3 2000iu, B12 2500mcg; Diet: for now, low carb:<70g/day
Weight mngm't: Down 30 lbs since Dx :thumbsup: Exercise reg: Biking in combo w/ 45 min at gym 3-4x/week

#19
ramon

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Just to reiterate the most important point

insulin activity is not "one size fits all"

If I need to lover my blood sugar from 180 mg/dl (10 mmol/dl) to 125 mg/dl (7mmol/dl) ... I would need to take 550 units of insulin.

that means that 10 units of insulin reduces my BG by 1 mg
Most diabetics with no insulin resistance will see a ratio of between 1unit = 15-18mg ...


Good Lord thats crazy and its the first time Ive seen anything like this. Do they make a concentrated type of insulin and how often does this happen to you?:eek:

#20
andypoo

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I've found with me to do it this way I check bg,then I take 120 from that amount,and then I take 15 into that,and the multiply 7,because that is "MY RATIO",I have discovered.
So say if my bg is 180,minus 120= 70 ,divide by 15=4,then 4 times 7=28, so 28 units for me,brings it down to normal range,I can't say by what,because sometimes it's more efficient and some times it's not. Thats why you have to try and try again,until you reach your own "place". This is what has worked for me,for now.
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We are constantly falling off one side are the other.
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