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#1
maya0606

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Hi Everyone,

I have been so frustrated with my diet!

I been having 2 eggs in the morning for breakfast and NOTHING at ALL!!! i put one whole egg and the second one i only put the white part of the egg no yolk. I actually make them in the microwave! My question is, Do eggs have carbs? because I have been having my blood sugar in the morning around 5.5 and 7.1, and when I check my blood test two hours after I have had my eggs, it goes up to between 10 and 13. WHY is that??? I really thought eggs don't have carbs :( PLEASE HELP
Diabetic on Type 1 since February 1999
A1C June 2008 = 8.2
A1C Oct 2008 = 12.5 WOW! :(
A1C Nov 2009 =7.2 :)
Maya
if it's to be, it's up to moi!!!

#2
fgummett

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I actually suspect that you are not eating enough ;)

Eggs do not contain carbohydrates, and eating 1 1/2 eggs should not be causing a BG spike so I suspect you are looking at Dawn Phenomenon or a Liver dump because the body is still hungry. If you feed it, the Liver may not need to do this.

Protein (as in eggs) is broken down by the body to Amino Acids and some amino acids can be converted to Glucose by the Liver, but my understanding is that this process is not fast or efficient enough to cause postprandial BG spike.

If you are avoiding the second yolk because of cholesterol... there is no need. In fact I suggest you may have a better pp BG if you ate all of both eggs and considered adding some grated/crumbled cheese to make an omelette -- you could still cook this in the microwave if you wish.

#3
Subby

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As for whether non carbs can have an effect on the BG, I've just recently read in "pumping insulin" by John Walsh that he recommends watching all foods for how they act, as some non-carbs may have an effect. I'm intirgued by this (there were no soures quoted) as I find the same thing myself. Sometimes isolated proteins will seem to have an effect on the BG for me. I have also read on this forum people finding that small boluses were effective for protein - afraid I don't remember who it was or time right now to look for the thread.

It may well e you simply have a basal fluctuation at the time, and virtually nothing to do with the egg. This may or may not be Dawn Phenomenon - for some of us, basal fluctuations come and go into the day. Being waking time, I'd certainly suspect as possibility that you don't have sufficient basal insulin to cover all those adrenal changes during the time of activating the body and facing stresses of the day.

My first step would be to basal test at this time. Without doing that, the relationship between the food and the 2 hour high, cannot practically be established. To basal test, tomorrow on waking if in a good BG range, start testing hourly and record it down. Skip your breakfast and do this for perhaps a few hours - don't eat unless you go low, in which case you abort and eat. Don't take short acting unless you go high, in which case abort and do what you normally do to get BG in check.

This will give you valuable information about how your baseline is going. You can act on this data, and add eggs back in and get a much clearer picture of if they affect you, than you do now.
20 years T1. NPH and Novorapid.
Some essentials for my blood sugar control: dosing via i:c ratio and cf • basal testing when needed • daily 40 minutes moderate exercise (or close) • carbs somewhere below 120g currently • only eating carbs and carb/fat combos that do not cause a problem spike, with or without insulin.

#4
mazea

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It sounds like you are having morning phenomenon where your blood sugar rises in the morning despite not having carbohydrates. Mine went up 5 points in the morning when had no carbohydrates one morning last week, so I think that is what is going on.

I would be eating regular carbohydrates and not fasting for breakfast. Have a few carbs at least.

Are you one of those diabetics that have a phenomenon where if eat over 19g fat your blood sugar goes up an extra few points? That happens to me so I have 1 extra unit of novorapid. 2 eggs contain 10g fat and 2 buttered slices of bread about 9g so that would be 19g for me. I have one extra unit of novorapid to cover this phenomenon.
Borderline blood fasting test in 2006
HBA1c 15 in May 2008
HBA1c 5.6 in October 2008
HBA1c 4.8 in May 2009
HBA1c 5.4 in September 2009
HBAC1 7.9 in June 2010
Type 1.5 since May 2008

#5
maya0606

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yeah see I am going on a diet so i could loser 10 lbs before i go to Cuba lol which is in 2 weeks so I am trying to eat less fat and the yolk has the most fat on it, but how am i not eating enough?

I eat a fruit or almonds with apple sauce 2 hours after i have had my eggs! than I eat 2 hours later with grilled chicken and veggies steamed or raw, ACTUALLY when I eat steamed veggies or raw ( broccoli, zuchini, red pepper, asparagus) I would need to put 2 units of Humolog! if I dont my sugar goes up to 10. Could this be because of my A1C? because my A1C isn't teh greated right now!! :S

I also do cardio right after dinner or before for 30 min :-) everyday!
Diabetic on Type 1 since February 1999
A1C June 2008 = 8.2
A1C Oct 2008 = 12.5 WOW! :(
A1C Nov 2009 =7.2 :)
Maya
if it's to be, it's up to moi!!!

#6
matingara

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i agree with Frank 100% and cannot add anything.

please don't avoid the second yolk. it is a waste of time and energy and gains you nothing. it also shows that the cretins (aka the popular press) have gotten to you...

:)

-- Joel.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
do not click here...
___________________________

NUMBERS
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May 2010 : A1C (home) 5.5%: Feb 2010: A1C (home): 5.2% Oct 2009: A1C: 5.7%;
Triglycerides: 53 (0.6); HDL chol: 50 (1.2); LDL chol: 19.5 (0.5); total cholesterol 87.5
Lantus before bed - 30u; Novorapid for meals (averaging 20-30u per day); Lowish carb diet

#7
mazea

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congratulations on your new AC1 Maya. Big improvement!
Borderline blood fasting test in 2006
HBA1c 15 in May 2008
HBA1c 5.6 in October 2008
HBA1c 4.8 in May 2009
HBA1c 5.4 in September 2009
HBAC1 7.9 in June 2010
Type 1.5 since May 2008

#8
maya0606

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Oh by the way, somthing else I forgot to mention.

I don't think I need to put more insulin for my food, because sometimes I would have two eggs and 1 apple and I would put 2 Units of Humolog, two hours later my sugar is perfect sometimes 5.5 or 7.5 so, why when I have carbs it staty stable, but when I only have protein it goes high??
Diabetic on Type 1 since February 1999
A1C June 2008 = 8.2
A1C Oct 2008 = 12.5 WOW! :(
A1C Nov 2009 =7.2 :)
Maya
if it's to be, it's up to moi!!!

#9
Subby

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Oh by the way, somthing else I forgot to mention.

I don't think I need to put more insulin for my food, because sometimes I would have two eggs and 1 apple and I would put 2 Units of Humolog, two hours later my sugar is perfect sometimes 5.5 or 7.5 so, why when I have carbs it staty stable, but when I only have protein it goes high??


Sorry Maya, I think you may have understood different to how I meant that:

I'm not suggesting you need to increase you dose for carbs + protein.

I am mentioning that some here have successfully taken a (usually much smaller) amount for some proteins when eaten in isolation. Why might some proteins affect blood sugar? Well, as a general statement, protein does get broken down for energy, somewhere along the track some protein might affect your BGs.

This is just a thought for you as you try and troubleshoot this.

What do you think of testing your basal rate during the morning? Have you done so before?
20 years T1. NPH and Novorapid.
Some essentials for my blood sugar control: dosing via i:c ratio and cf • basal testing when needed • daily 40 minutes moderate exercise (or close) • carbs somewhere below 120g currently • only eating carbs and carb/fat combos that do not cause a problem spike, with or without insulin.

#10
Subby

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i agree with Frank 100% and cannot add anything.

please don't avoid the second yolk. it is a waste of time and energy and gains you nothing. it also shows that the cretins (aka the popular press) have gotten to you...

:)

-- Joel.


Steady on, mate. Experimenting with foodstuffs such as reducing or increasing, intake of either carbs or protein or fat is a very worthwhile process in trying to gain knowledge about these BG dynamics. In fact, it's one of the main tools at hand. Being told not to do so because you've been "gotten at" for a low fat diet, is not sound advice IMHO. Dealing with IDDM spikes is certainly not ALL about no carb/good fat, even if it can be an extremely valuable tool for some/many.
20 years T1. NPH and Novorapid.
Some essentials for my blood sugar control: dosing via i:c ratio and cf • basal testing when needed • daily 40 minutes moderate exercise (or close) • carbs somewhere below 120g currently • only eating carbs and carb/fat combos that do not cause a problem spike, with or without insulin.

#11
maya0606

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Well this morning I woke up with a 4.2, i had two eggs again with one yolk and the rest white, also a plain cookie that has 9g of carbs, I only put 1 unit, as my sugar seems to be little low this morning( well for a diabetic) I will let you guys know in 2 hours how much is my sugar :-)


Thanks a lot for your help everyone, much appreciated!
Diabetic on Type 1 since February 1999
A1C June 2008 = 8.2
A1C Oct 2008 = 12.5 WOW! :(
A1C Nov 2009 =7.2 :)
Maya
if it's to be, it's up to moi!!!

#12
madlava

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I know the carb amount is negligent and should not increase your blood glucose, but just to be clear, eggs do have carbs - about 0.5g. I usually eat two eggs (with both yolks), ham or turkey and a piece of low-carb toast with a piece of lettuce on it and coffee (with coffeemate). Even though my BG goes up proportionately more in the mornings for breakfast, I just can't eat two eggs. And this is a person who's 5'6" and 115 lbs, so my BG does spike quite a bit with smaller amts of carbs.
madlava:trytofly:
  • Feb 2009-------------Oct 2008
  • A1C 5.3%----------------7.2%
  • Cholesterol 185----------174
  • HDL 73---------------------60
  • Triglyceride 75-----------77
  • LDL 97---------------------99
  • BMI 19.4-----------------21.3
  • BP 110/70
Low carb diet & exercise 4-5x a week
Off of all meds but take vitamins & supplements

#13
maya0606

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I am Back!!

so it is now 10:30 AM here and I just did my blood test two hours after I have had the two eggs(one Yolk) and a plain cookie (9g of carbs) while my blood sugar was at 4.2 this morning when i woke up, and now it is 9.2. It did not go that high compare to just eating eggs in the morning, it seems like when i eat carbs my BG is lower than when I don't eat Carbs, does this even make sense? :S I am all confused
Diabetic on Type 1 since February 1999
A1C June 2008 = 8.2
A1C Oct 2008 = 12.5 WOW! :(
A1C Nov 2009 =7.2 :)
Maya
if it's to be, it's up to moi!!!

#14
xMenace

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I am finding that I need to bolus for protein now that I'm low carbing. I'm starting to try some longer square waves. I am not getting spikes, but I'm having trouble getting my 3-6 hours numbers down.

Here's a cool looking article on protein:
How Much Protein?

As I pointed out last time, the liver converts an average of 58% of the protein we eat into carbohydrates, and that the carbohydrates-from-protein are handled by the body just like "regular" carbohydrates. It is broken down into glucose by the simple water-related steps of hydrolysis; it is used for fuel to run the body; it is converted to glycogen and stored. If there is too much of it, it is converted into body fat. (New readers can find my previous articles that explain all these things on the CarbSmart website, in the archives: vital.html.)


I believe Cyborg boluses for 50% of his proteins.

Virginia Woolf: “Consider how common illness is, how tremendous the spiritual change that it brings, how astonishing, when the lights of health go down, the undiscovered countries that are then disclosed, what wastes and deserts of the soul a slight attack of influenza brings to view, what precipices and lawns sprinkled with bright flowers a little rise of temperature reveals, what ancient and obdurate oaks are uprooted in us by the act of sickness, how we go down in the pit of death and feel the waters of annihilation close above our heads and wake thinking to find ourselves in the presence of the angels and the harpers when we have a tooth out and come to the surface in the dentist's arm-chair and confuse his "Rinse the mouth-rinse the mouth" with the greeting of the Deity stooping from the floor of Heaven to welcome us - when we think of this, as we are so frequently forced to think of it, it becomes strange indeed that illness has not taken its place with love and battle and jealousy among the prime themes of literature”
Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172


#15
Des

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I am finding all of these answers very interesting indeed and thank everyone for their posts.

I have just completed the first part of my diabetic schooling and have learnt lots concerning foods and how they effect our bodies... remembering that we are all different...

It was explained to me that if you do not have a minimum of 15g carbs every 5 hours your liver will dump glucose into our system to compensate for lack of intake (hence a 15g carb snack before bedtime to shut down the liver).
I was testing this theory out with and it seems to be true, in my case.

I believe the dawn phenomenon is all about this liver dump and perhaps a thing explained to me as leaky liver!!! but will learn more about that at my next lesson.

In my carb counting world I count each egg as a value of 1 carb. So for me a breakfast of 2 slices brown bread toasted with 3 eggs scrabbled in the micro would be around 33carbs. It is enough to give me protein fat (from the marg) and carbs that my body needs to operate with.

I hope this information helps and that I am not that confused to to have got my knickers in a twist over it.


Des



Oct 26th '09- A1C=6.6 :)
July 30th '09- A1C=6.8:o
April 27th '09- A1C=6.8 :D
Jan 7th '09- A1C=10.7 :(
Dec 5th '08- A1C=12.3 :eek:

(Metaformin 2000mg (4 tabs)) :eek:
(Diamicron 120mg) :o
Walking a min of 10 brisk miles a week. :creep:

#16
Gary_W

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Maya - As Subby suggested earlier, have you done some basal testing?

The thing is here that it may be your own liver causing the rise you are experiencing, NOT the food you are eating. The thing is with using a basal insulin is that, until the basal rate is set correctly, NOTHING else makes a whole bunch of sense.

Second. Do you know how to carb count? If not, ask and learn how to as it makes life a lot nicer.

Third. Do you know what your insulin ratio is in the morning.

If you already know all the above then fair enough. If not, start there. Only when you've got a handle on all the above should you start to consider whether or not you need to bolus for protein IMO. You are trying to understand why something is happening and the best way to understand ANYTHING is to reduce the number of variables. Once you've done that, the answer may well become clear.

I don't low carb, but what I find is that I need to bolus a little for protein if I'm having loads of it with few carbs. If I have a huge steak with a leaf-only side salad with carb free dressing, common belief would be that I need no insulin. But I know from experience that a cow on a plate needs insulin for me; about 1/4 to 1/3 the amount that carbs would, but it needs it....

If I'm eating a rather more modest amount of meat or other protein, I don't bolus for it as it doesn't seem to need it. It is only if the bulk of the meal is protein that the rule book (for me) seems to get thrown out of the window. And if I have a couple of poached eggs on toast, I bolus for the toast alone and everything works out perfectly.

Regarding the eggs and yolks thing.... Being a Brit, I had no idea of the American habit of egg white omelettes until I was working over there a couple of years back and had a colleague from the USA order one at the breakfast bar in the hotel. I had never heard of such a thing before, and I joked that I'd have an omelette with the extra yolks that were left over.... I cannot say one way or the other how 'healthy' or otherwise egg yolks are, but what I can say is that from a good taste point of view that if you're worried about egg yolks then stay away from omelettes. I can hear many a great chef turning in their grave (which they may have entered early due to said egg yolks :eek: :D :eek: )

Good luck

Gary
The people of the Village call me 'The King and Queen of Fajitas'. I know not why....

#17
matingara

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Steady on, mate. Experimenting with foodstuffs such as reducing or increasing, intake of either carbs or protein or fat is a very worthwhile process in trying to gain knowledge about these BG dynamics. In fact, it's one of the main tools at hand. Being told not to do so because you've been "gotten at" for a low fat diet, is not sound advice IMHO. Dealing with IDDM spikes is certainly not ALL about no carb/good fat, even if it can be an extremely valuable tool for some/many.


*sigh*. i am all for individual experimentation. i think that is of paramount importance.

cutting out egg yolks because you heard it on the <insert famous woman gabfest talk show host name here> show is also not sound scientific method.

i agree the individual should test for themselves. but this also includes taking on the responsibility of testing - which means filtering out unwanted and hysterical noise that the popular media irresponsibly generates these days (IMHO).

:)

-- Joel.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
do not click here...
___________________________

NUMBERS
-----------------
May 2010 : A1C (home) 5.5%: Feb 2010: A1C (home): 5.2% Oct 2009: A1C: 5.7%;
Triglycerides: 53 (0.6); HDL chol: 50 (1.2); LDL chol: 19.5 (0.5); total cholesterol 87.5
Lantus before bed - 30u; Novorapid for meals (averaging 20-30u per day); Lowish carb diet

#18
xMenace

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I believe the dawn phenomenon is all about this liver dump and perhaps a thing explained to me as leaky liver!!! but will learn more about that at my next lesson.


This is what my local teaching clinic teaches, but IMO our DPs happen no matter what we eat. Mine does. I'd have OD'd long ago if what you say is true.

Virginia Woolf: “Consider how common illness is, how tremendous the spiritual change that it brings, how astonishing, when the lights of health go down, the undiscovered countries that are then disclosed, what wastes and deserts of the soul a slight attack of influenza brings to view, what precipices and lawns sprinkled with bright flowers a little rise of temperature reveals, what ancient and obdurate oaks are uprooted in us by the act of sickness, how we go down in the pit of death and feel the waters of annihilation close above our heads and wake thinking to find ourselves in the presence of the angels and the harpers when we have a tooth out and come to the surface in the dentist's arm-chair and confuse his "Rinse the mouth-rinse the mouth" with the greeting of the Deity stooping from the floor of Heaven to welcome us - when we think of this, as we are so frequently forced to think of it, it becomes strange indeed that illness has not taken its place with love and battle and jealousy among the prime themes of literature”
Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172


#19
tammy68

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Hi Everyone,

I have been so frustrated with my diet!

I been having 2 eggs in the morning for breakfast and NOTHING at ALL!!! i put one whole egg and the second one i only put the white part of the egg no yolk. I actually make them in the microwave! My question is, Do eggs have carbs? because I have been having my blood sugar in the morning around 5.5 and 7.1, and when I check my blood test two hours after I have had my eggs, it goes up to between 10 and 13. WHY is that??? I really thought eggs don't have carbs :( PLEASE HELP


I recently attended a diabetic education class, one of the things discussed was similiar to this issue. Eggs do have only a negligable amount of carbs, (not enough to really count). However, we were told that your kidney's continually produce sugar and this is why a lot of times your blood sugar level will be higher in the mornings. This is also why a lot of diabetics are first put on the medication metformin. It suppresses the amount of sugar produced by your kidneys. Talk to your doctor to see if this would help. I hope you are able to get it under control.

#20
Bountyman

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I recently attended a diabetic education class, one of the things discussed was similiar to this issue. Eggs do have only a negligable amount of carbs, (not enough to really count). However, we were told that your kidney's continually produce sugar and this is why a lot of times your blood sugar level will be higher in the mornings. This is also why a lot of diabetics are first put on the medication metformin. It suppresses the amount of sugar produced by your kidneys. Talk to your doctor to see if this would help. I hope you are able to get it under control.


I think you need to get your money back from your diabetes "education" class.

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