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Rare symptoms? High c-peptide, normal glucose.

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#1
parknride

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Hi everybody,

My name is Odin , I'm 19 years old and I'm new here.
First of all I want to say I'm not diagnosed with Diabetes, but I have some rare symptoms related to it, so I thought this might be the appropriate forum.

I'm overweighted and went to an endocrinologist where they tested my cortisol values etc (which seemed to be normal), because the nutritionist couldn't help me.

I've found out that I have high levels of insulin and rather normal glucose values.

1st measurement 11 am (sober)
Glucose : 4,6 mmol/l (should be 4,0-6,4 mmol/l)
C-Peptide: 1,10 nmol/l (should be : 0,26-0,62 nmol/l)

2nd measurement 1 pm (sober)
Glucose: 4,7 mmol/l
C-Peptide: ""2,40 nmol/l"" (should be : 0,26-0,62 nmol/l) !!!!

I don't know if this are alerting values, and why doctors didn't say anything about it, but I suspect this can't be normal?!

Anyone who can help me.

Thanks in advance

#2
foxl

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It seems to me that a person having insulin resistance, but not yet developing into glucotoxicity and insulin insufficiency, would have values like that.
Linda


[B]Jan A1c 6.3/B]
Jul 09 ... C-pep 1.3, GAD-65 > 30
Mar 10 C-pep 2.8 (20 g carb); GAD 3.2
dx 02/09 in DKA


Levemir 12U per day; novolog PRN TDD ca 16U
MetforminXR 1000 mg BID
Ramipril 5 mg
T4 112 mcg
Chia oil
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Eating 20 - 45 g carb per day ovo-lacto-vegetarian
Walking 30 min 6x week

#3
Scratch

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Yeah, it would be indicative of insulin resistance, needing more insulin than normal to keep the blood sugars normal.
MDI, Lantus and Novolog
A1c 2/12 -- 5.9%

#4
parknride

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Yeah, it would be indicative of insulin resistance, needing more insulin than normal to keep the blood sugars normal.


I understand this and I've already read about it.
The issue is, that it is not a result of unhealthy or too much food.
I've lived with my mother since I was born and we always ate the same things and she has the right body shape. (53 years old and BMI 23)

I've read about some problems with the pancreas, but I don't know if I have this kind of disease.

#5
jps

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That's what it seems like to me, insulin resistance. Your pancreas is pumping out more insulin to keep your sugars normal. You're actually pretty fortunate at this point.

If this progresses, then at some point, the pancreas cannot longer produce enough insulin to combat the sugars and your sugars go higher. And that's when you start feeling really lousy. And some time after that, diagnosis of T2 usually happens.

If nothing is done, the pancreas is still working overtime, but can't keep up, and then it starts to "burn out" its beta cells - then your insulin production goes down, your sugars start going higher. An ugly cycle.
"That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche

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#6
sumi

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Hi Odin,
You are obviously proactive to be checking out your results. It is too bad the Dr. did not explain them. It is my understanding that our insulin levels rise for up to a decade before we develop diabetes. I have no medical training, I can only guess, but it would seem to me that the trouble would not be with your pancreas, but with your cells becoming insulin resistant. More investigation seems in order.
Susan
DX Dec4/08 FBG 19(342)
Dec4 /08 A1C 10.9
Feb.4/09 A1C 7.6
may4 /09 A1C 5.2:D
Sept 4/09 A1C 5.4
Dec 7/09 A1C 5.2
2010 A1C average 5.4
2011 A1C average 5.5
Current meds: 1500mg metformin, 5 mg ramipril, Victoza
Low carb- started at < 50 , now can handle 100

#7
EeyoreButterfly

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Just because your mother eats the same things you do and has the "Right body shape' does not mean you are eating healthy foods or the right amounts.

What is happening as others have explained is your body needs to pump out more insulin than normal in order to keep your blood sugars stable. If this continues, over time your pancreas will lose its ability to keep up with the demand and you will be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.

The first thing you need to look at is what you are eating. Specifically carbs. How many carbs do you eat in a day? We're not talking just cake and ice cream. We're talking pretty much everything but meat: grains, starches, fruits, and even veggies all have carbs. It's amazing how many carbs most Americans consume without even realizing it. You're going to want to cut back on the carbs. You may not have diabetes yet, but if I were you I would start eating like one.

The less burden you place on your pancreas, the longer it will take for diabetes to develop. If you want, post a typical day's menu on here and we can help you figure out where you can tweak it so you aren't consuming so many carbs.
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Jessi 26
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Diet and Exercise

One Touch Ultra Mini Purple named Rosalie
A1C: 5.7

#8
parknride

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Just because your mother eats the same things you do and has the "Right body shape' does not mean you are eating healthy foods or the right amounts.

What is happening as others have explained is your body needs to pump out more insulin than normal in order to keep your blood sugars stable. If this continues, over time your pancreas will lose its ability to keep up with the demand and you will be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.

The first thing you need to look at is what you are eating. Specifically carbs. How many carbs do you eat in a day? We're not talking just cake and ice cream. We're talking pretty much everything but meat: grains, starches, fruits, and even veggies all have carbs. It's amazing how many carbs most Americans consume without even realizing it. You're going to want to cut back on the carbs. You may not have diabetes yet, but if I were you I would start eating like one.

The less burden you place on your pancreas, the longer it will take for diabetes to develop. If you want, post a typical day's menu on here and we can help you figure out where you can tweak it so you aren't consuming so many carbs.

I understand answers like these, but you have to believe me. I've been with different nutritionist, following their low carb programs, without any result. (well yes, I've lost muscle tissue).

Where I live - in Belgium - we have less high-carb-food than for instance Americans.

Furthermore, cake, ice cream and other kinds of sweets can't be found in my dictionary.

So really: food is not the issue.

#9
fgummett

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In that case I'm not sure what you are asking?

Are you concerned as to why you are overweight or why your C-Peptide/Insulin levels are so high, or something else?

What does your Doctor say?

#10
parknride

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In that case I'm not sure what you are asking?

Are you concerned as to why you are overweight or why your C-Petide/Insulin levels are so high, or something else?

What does your Doctor say?


I've read that high insulin levels (in combination with low/normal glucose levels) cause your body to store fat.

People get fat because of several reasons. And if I understand well, diabetes type II is caused because high glucose levels need high insulin production which causes your pancreas to burn out and you become diabetic.

But in my case: I've never had high glucose levels, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, etc etc. But I'm overweighted.

So I'm just wondering if in my case there might be a connection between the overweight and the high insulin storing fat. (because I've read about it, but most articles describe diabetes if I search in google with "high c-peptide or high insulin")

And the mysterious reason why doctors didn't said a word about the high c-peptide when they got these results.

#11
jps

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Yes, insulin is, among other things, a fat storage hormone.

Why yours is high if it is not to combat sugars that are pushing it? I really have no idea, but that's what doctors are for. Are you seeing a general practicioner or an endocrinologist? I'd suggest you see an endo to find out exactly what's going on, especially in light of a normal cortisol level.

There are so many hormones in the body, each having some positive and/or negative feedback upon other hormones, which in turn have a positive or negative feedback upon other hormones, so forth and so on.
"That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche

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#12
fgummett

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The body has mechanisms to maintain the core temperature within a normal range (homeostasis): if it is tending towards too hot the peripheral circulation dilates and we sweat to lose heat... too cold and the peripheral circulation shuts down and we shiver to retain and generate heat. All this while the core temperature is maintained at the normal range for the brain and other major organs to function correctly. It is only if the core temperature goes outside that range that problems occur: too hot leads to fever, seizures and coma... too cold and we lose consciousness. Either extreme is fatal.

The body has similar mechanisms to maintain/regulate the Blood Glucose (BG) within a normal range. Insulin is a key hormone in that regulation. If your BG is tending towards high, more insulin is secreted to keep your BG in range. It is only if/when the insulin cannot "keep up" either because the BG is getting too high or because the Pancreas (Beta cells) becomes exhausted or damaged, that we start to show diagnostic signs of Diabetes -- including high BGs.

You are right in saying that high insulin levels keep the body in fat storage mode AND it is also true that excess fat storage is associated with Insulin Resistance (IR) where the cells response to insulin is diminished and so the Pancreas tries to compensate by secreting ever more insulin.. which in turn leads to greater excess fat storage -- a vicious cycle that ends with the Beta cells getting exhausted/damaged.

If this is what you are experiencing, the way to break this cycle is by reducing your body's need for insulin by avoiding those foods which tend to raise the BG.

As for your Doctor's mysterious silence I cannot speculate but suggest you discuss these results with them.

#13
parknride

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Yes, insulin is, among other things, a fat storage hormone.

Why yours is high if it is not to combat sugars that are pushing it? I really have no idea, but that's what doctors are for. Are you seeing a general practicioner or an endocrinologist? I'd suggest you see an endo to find out exactly what's going on, especially in light of a normal cortisol level.

There are so many hormones in the body, each having some positive and/or negative feedback upon other hormones, which in turn have a positive or negative feedback upon other hormones, so forth and so on.


Yes, the doctor who did the blood and urine tests (in the urine test, only cortisol was tested) was an endocrinologist.
I think she might have missed other factors like the c-peptide, because it seemed that she only focused on the cortisol levels.

That's what makes it frustrating to me: she didn't knew the answer to my problem.

Maybe I should look for another endocrinologist to get another opinion.

#14
xMenace

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I understand this and I've already read about it.
The issue is, that it is not a result of unhealthy or too much food.
I've lived with my mother since I was born and we always ate the same things and she has the right body shape. (53 years old and BMI 23)

I've read about some problems with the pancreas, but I don't know if I have this kind of disease.



You must have a father. 50%

Does your nutritionist define whole grained breads as low carb? How many grams per day do you consume? How much protein and fat per day? Try a 5-10% carb and 72% fat diet for a bit and see how that works.
Michelle Oberg "yep....stop trying to make vegetables taste like meat.....you made your choice, now live with it hippies"

Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172

#15
fgummett

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Here is my usual spiel on diet (n this case it simply means "what I eat")...

Real whole food, is the order of the day... preferably local and in-season, grown/reared on nutrient rich land. This means eat whole (unprocessed, unpackaged, unadulterated) food, which includes a natural balance of fat, protein and carbohydrates (as well as vitamins, minerals etc...) ...don't be afraid of fat... it's gotten a bad rap.

Those of us with Diabetes need to pay particular attention to the foods which have the most effect on our Blood Glucose (BG) levels. There are obvious things to watch out for like candy, cola, cakes and sweets (these are high in refined/concentrated carbohydrates)... next in line are the "white" foods like bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, breakfast cereal... but even something assumed to be healthy like orange juice has about as much sugar as a cola... fat reduced milk can have an higher proportion of lactose (sugar), especially in low-fat products such as yogurts which may have HFCS added to replace the fat... and so it goes on. That does not mean you need to feel deprived or hungry to eat this way, not by any means.

Some rules for snacks... I'm big on nuts, cheese, dark chocolate (70% cocoa or higher), pork scratchings, cold meats, boiled eggs, peanut butter.

While we are encouraged to eat "so many servings of fruit and veg daily", many of these can spike our BGs so test, test test... but you may also help reduce/slow the BG spike by mixing foods... for example: instead of eating an apple by itself, try just half the apple in slices with some peanut butter or cheese... or have a few berries with some cream.

As for activity, I personally think that walking is probably the single most important activity we humans can do. Nothing formal that requires special equipment... just walking.

Some like to gradually cut back on refined carbohydrates... personally I found it much easier to go "cold turkey" and just rid my house of anything and everything that listed more than 1g of carbs per serving. BUT I did not starve myself and I can certainly relate to many years of an hearty appetite. Real whole foods are all plenty filling... just stay away from the bread, pasta rice potatoes etc...

#16
parknride

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The body has mechanisms to maintain the core temperature within a normal range (homeostasis): if it is tending towards too hot the peripheral circulation dilates and we sweat to lose heat... too cold and the peripheral circulation shuts down and we shiver to retain and generate heat. All this while the core temperature is maintained at the normal range for the brain and other major organs to function correctly. It is only if the core temperature goes outside that range that problems occur: too hot leads to fever, seizures and coma... too cold and we lose consciousness. Either extreme is fatal.

The body has similar mechanisms to maintain/regulate the Blood Glucose (BG) within a normal range. Insulin is a key hormone in that regulation. If your BG is tending towards high, more insulin is secreted to keep your BG in range. It is only if/when the insulin cannot "keep up" either because the BG is getting too high or because the Pancreas (Beta cells) becomes exhausted or damaged, that we start to show diagnostic signs of Diabetes -- including high BGs.

You are right in saying that high insulin levels keep the body in fat storage mode AND it is also true that excess fat storage is associated with Insulin Resistance (IR) where the cells response to insulin is diminished and so the Pancreas tries to compensate by secreting ever more insulin.. which in turn leads to greater excess fat storage -- a vicious cycle that ends with the Beta cells getting exhausted/damaged.

If this is what you are experiencing, the way to break this cycle is by reducing your body's need for insulin by avoiding those foods which tend to raise the BG.

As for your Doctor's mysterious silence I cannot speculate but suggest you discuss these results with them.


I don't know if you are following me, but I've never had high glucose intake or unhealthy food for a significant period.

AND this is confirmed by the nutritionists I've been with and the endocrinologist.

The fact that my cholesterol levels are outstanding, the endocrinologist said, meant I could never have had unhealthy food for a significant period in my short life (19 years). Because most of the time unhealthy food is related to high cholesterol levels AND high glucose intake. I think there are not many people who have high glucose intake and low cholesterol.
Or in other words: how many people do you know that became diabetic type II but didn't had high cholesterol?

#17
fgummett

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I suggest you see an endocrinologist to discuss your high C-Peptide results. I am not a Doctor and was only trying to help.

#18
xMenace

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AND this is confirmed by the nutritionists I've been with and the endocrinologist.


These "professionals" have absolutely no credence when it comes to low carbing. None! Almost all of them consider 30% carbs very low. Low to me is under 50g per day.
Michelle Oberg "yep....stop trying to make vegetables taste like meat.....you made your choice, now live with it hippies"

Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172

#19
parknride

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These "professionals" have absolutely no credence when it comes to low carbing. None! Almost all of them consider 30% carbs very low. Low to me is under 50g per day.


Indeed they all think they're pulling the right end.

However, my blood isn't lying about my food habits.

The only strange thing about my result is the high c-peptide.

Some responders relate this to bad eating habits, however my blood tells different. Of course, I've only displayed a tiny part of the results, so they can't know.

Best thing to do is see another endocrinologist.

#20
jps

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I had a not great, but normal cholesterol, with high blood sugar and A1c. I know I had the absolute worst eating habits.

When you say you eat properly, why don't you give us a typical week of what you eat and drink? If I went by what the experts call a "healthy" diet for diabetics, my numbers would undoubtedly be worse.
"That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger" - Friedrich Nietzsche

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