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#1
isis7412

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What is the difference between taking Novalog (20 units three times a day) and Levimir (45 units twice daily) and taking Novalin 70/30 twice daily. I am a type II diabetic w/ no insurance, so I about had a heart attack when I went to pick up the first rx of insulin and it was $600. (This rx was given to me after a stay in the hospital) :eek: The doctor changed the meds today to the Novalin 70/30 because I asked him for a cheaper alternative. But I didn't get a good explanation about the differences or if there are any? It's times like these, I miss corporate America w/ the good medical benefits perks! hehe!

#2
Delphinus

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What is the difference between taking Novalog (20 units three times a day) and Levimir (45 units twice daily) and taking Novalin 70/30 twice daily. I am a type II diabetic w/ no insurance, so I about had a heart attack when I went to pick up the first rx of insulin and it was $600. (This rx was given to me after a stay in the hospital) :eek: The doctor changed the meds today to the Novalin 70/30 because I asked him for a cheaper alternative. But I didn't get a good explanation about the differences or if there are any? It's times like these, I miss corporate America w/ the good medical benefits perks! hehe!


NovoLog.

Wow, twenty units three times a day? That seems a bit excessive considering that is a bolus insulin to be used with meals and snacks. Basically you cover your carbs with a bolus(injecting regular or fast acting insulin). If you have started this regimen that is.

The Levemir would be used for your basal injections(Background/support insulin).

I hope you are eating plenty when you inject those 20 units of Novolog or you are going to get into serious trouble, and often, with lows/hypos/diabetic shock.

You really need to learn how to count carbs. That is matching your regular/fast acting insulin to carb intake.

As for the 70/30. I have little experience with insulin "cocktails", but many here will chime in and I am sure let you know you won't get ideal control while using insulin mixtures.

It seems to be the norm for doctors to send people on their way with insulin and little guidance. Insulin is a great tool, but if you are not knowledgable about it, it can be quite dangerous.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Type1 diabetic. Son of a Type1 diabetic. Father to a Type1 diabetic.

+++ Jason

#3
aiah23

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What is the difference between taking Novalog (20 units three times a day) and Levimir (45 units twice daily) and taking Novalin 70/30 twice daily. I am a type II diabetic w/ no insurance, so I about had a heart attack when I went to pick up the first rx of insulin and it was $600. (This rx was given to me after a stay in the hospital) :eek: The doctor changed the meds today to the Novalin 70/30 because I asked him for a cheaper alternative. But I didn't get a good explanation about the differences or if there are any? It's times like these, I miss corporate America w/ the good medical benefits perks! hehe!


Honestly I think you'd need to post some more info for people to give you a better assessment. What was your A1C (3 month average of blood sugars) from your labwork? Do you have a meter to test blood sugars? What is a relative weight for you given that it's a lot of insulin (or you're incredibly insulin resistant)? Do you know what kind of diabetes you have, I'm guessing type 2 but that's very presumptive on my part. Providing some more info will help substantially. Also, there are programs available in each state (at least in the US I'm not sure where your location is though) that can offer financial assistance or opt to help out supplying medications for free or at a reduced cost. Best of luck!

Fawn

#4
isis7412

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Honestly I think you'd need to post some more info for people to give you a better assessment. What was your A1C (3 month average of blood sugars) from your labwork? Do you have a meter to test blood sugars? What is a relative weight for you given that it's a lot of insulin (or you're incredibly insulin resistant)? Do you know what kind of diabetes you have, I'm guessing type 2 but that's very presumptive on my part. Providing some more info will help substantially. Also, there are programs available in each state (at least in the US I'm not sure where your location is though) that can offer financial assistance or opt to help out supplying medications for free or at a reduced cost. Best of luck!

Fawn


I am a type II diabetic. I am 35 years old and I was diagnosed about 10 years ago. My treatment efforts have been spotty. I was a student for 5 years of this, and my current job, though it pays okay, offers little in affordable insurance benefits. Not an excuse for not taking care of this, I know, but they are circumstances that made/make it difficult.
I went to the hospital April 22nd for chest pains. My sugar was 410, A1C of 11, blood pressure I don't remember but it was through the roof and my pulse/heart rate was off the charts... I did not have a heart attack but my I had elevated enzymes... They started insulin therapy in the hospital, and stated i was very insulin resistant. If you mean by relative weight, how much do I weigh, I'm a big gal. 5'9, large frame approx 275. (I have lost 14 lbs since hospital stay) I do have a meter, I test three to four times a day (today my wake up BS was 141.) I went to the Dr. today, my A1C was 7.8. BP normal. The Dr. is at a local health clinic, so my services are what I pay for... and I mean no slight w/ that, I appreciate that they are there to help out. He put me on the NovOlog =)~ 70/30 at 75 units morning/ 50 units night.

That's about all i can think of... oh and thanks for the tip on help... I have ck'd into some of it, I am, unfortunatley, in that lot that makes enough not to qualify, but I don't make enough to foot it on my own. Oh well, what can ya do. ::shrugs:: :o

#5
Delphinus

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I am a type II diabetic. I am 35 years old and I was diagnosed about 10 years ago. My treatment efforts have been spotty. I was a student for 5 years of this, and my current job, though it pays okay, offers little in affordable insurance benefits. Not an excuse for not taking care of this, I know, but they are circumstances that made/make it difficult.
I went to the hospital April 22nd for chest pains. My sugar was 410, A1C of 11, blood pressure I don't remember but it was through the roof and my pulse/heart rate was off the charts... I did not have a heart attack but my I had elevated enzymes... They started insulin therapy in the hospital, and stated i was very insulin resistant. If you mean by relative weight, how much do I weigh, I'm a big gal. 5'9, large frame approx 275. (I have lost 14 lbs since hospital stay) I do have a meter, I test three to four times a day (today my wake up BS was 141.) I went to the Dr. today, my A1C was 7.8. BP normal. The Dr. is at a local health clinic, so my services are what I pay for... and I mean no slight w/ that, I appreciate that they are there to help out. He put me on the NovOlog =)~ 70/30 at 75 units morning/ 50 units night.

That's about all i can think of... oh and thanks for the tip on help... I have ck'd into some of it, I am, unfortunatley, in that lot that makes enough not to qualify, but I don't make enough to foot it on my own. Oh well, what can ya do. ::shrugs:: :o



Well hang around here, you will learn alot.

Insulin use is one of the few treatments we need, where we need to read entire books for, where it is ongoing, and forever changing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Type1 diabetic. Son of a Type1 diabetic. Father to a Type1 diabetic.

+++ Jason

#6
Subby

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Having the insulins separate means you can use boluses without putting more and more basal into you. It also means you can finetune your basal without affecting your boluses.

However on a mix:
- you can't change your basal without affecting your bolus at the time
- you can't change a bolus without affecting your basal for the next 12-15 hours
- you can't take more than two boluses to cover other dietary requirements, like, I dunno, lunch.
- you can't take correction shots because again, you will be overlaying more basal for the next 12-15 hours when all you want is the bolus.

It seems like a case of pure luck, as to whether you get good results with a basal to bolus ratio of 70/30 and just two shots a day. Some people might. Is it likely most people do, T1, T2, whatever? I don't think so. T2s might be more likely to be able to "get away" with it, if they have help from their pancreas.

Getting it all right is hard enough without the basal bolus ratio that a mix enforces, and all the limitations it puts on adapting your insulin regimen to suit your body. But the most important thing is what you find. Does it keep you in control? Have you tweaked dose and timing to give maximum effect for that insulin? Or do you have signs it's just not going to do a good job, even if strongly tweaked? These are the most important questions for you in deciding if a mix is your way.

That said, I leave it up to you as to whether you should be putting emphasis on other areas anyway such as meds, diet and exercise in improving your numbers, which might change your insulin needs strongly. I just don't know, and I don't know what role insulin should ultimately play for you.
20 years T1. NPH and Novorapid.
Some essentials for my blood sugar control: dosing via i:c ratio and cf • basal testing when needed • daily 40 minutes moderate exercise (or close) • carbs somewhere below 120g currently • only eating carbs and carb/fat combos that do not cause a problem spike, with or without insulin.

#7
aggie168

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I am a type II diabetic w/ no insurance, so I about had a heart attack when I went to pick up the first rx of insulin and it was $600..... It's times like these, I miss corporate America w/ the good medical benefits perks! hehe!


Hello isis7412, welcome to DF. You are already getting good advice from others. I just like to add one more piece of information that may be helpful. I believe the maker of Novolog/Levemir do have a patient assistance program for someone without insurance. You should contact them and see if you qualify. :)

===============================================
DX 02/2002, Minimed 530G(751) w/CGMS on Novolog
Aspirin 81mg + Lipitor 10mg + Losartan 50mg

05/2014 A1C 5.8 Chol=154 Trig=96 HDL=48 LDL=87


#8
enigmalady777

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When I first started taking insulin, my NP prescribed Regular insulin and Lantus.

I actually did fairly well on the Regular insulin - I simply wanted the convenience of a rapid acting insulin so I asked to switch to Novolog. I have insurance that covers my insulin so it wasn't a problem.

Regular insulin is one of the cheapest out there. I think it's currently running something like $30-40 for a vial. In most states, it's also available without a prescription. You can maintain very good control using Regular insulin for your bolus injections (mealtime) and any of the basal insulins (Levemir, Lantus, etc).

If cost is really a factor, I have heard (but don't have firsthand experience, unfortunately) that Novolin N or Humulin N insulins, while not as good as the analogue insulins, will provide decent basal coverage and they are much less expensive than the analogue insulins.

Just throwing out some alternatives for you. I know how expensive this disease can be.

As for dosing - some type 2 folks (myself included) have a fair amount of insulin resistance which require larger doses of insulin. For me, a dose of 20 units of novolog before a meal will only cover about 20-25 grams of carbs. My insulin to carb ratio is quite bad. 1:1 anyone?? It sucks, but it is what it is. :(
Lantus, Novolog
Metformin 850 x 3
Lower carb lifestyle

A1C:
11/3/07: 7.5
2/23/08: 7.4
8/30/08: 8.1 :eek:
1/29/09: 5.7
5/21/09: 5.7
9/28/09: 5.8
12/27/09: 5.3
03/15/10: 6.0
08/06/10: 6.1
12/02/10: 6.3

Triglycerides:
11/3/07: 321
2/23/08: 328
8/30/08: 330
1/29/09: 166
5/29/09: 230
9/28/09: 201
03/15/10: 203
08/06/10: 200
12/02/10: 207

#9
h a

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For those with no insurance try Walmart RELION NOVOLOG OR NOVOLIN.yOU have to ask for the Relion Novolin or Novolin 70/30 . They RUN $26.99 to$30 for novolog or novolin 70/30 per vial. Novolin 70/30 by abbott run almost $90 per vial. I Use the RELION NOVOLIN 70/30 because of price and it is easier to use. It can be a bit less control if you do not watch your diet as there is no correction dose. Your dose of 75 units and then 50 units to start seems a bit much as a newcomer with using that much insulin can feel low or spike til you get the dose and food thing worked out. The meter is your best friend. Walmart has a cheap good meter and 50 strips are $20 and 100 strips are $49. Walgreens also has their meter and strips for the same price. The hardest thing for me was the needles as they gave me the old fashioned long needle by BD. The shorter needles cause less pain and bumps on the skin and they are thin enough to be less fearful. a 30 gauge SHORT for 100 units may work for you , ask at the store. A newcomer mistake is to assume insulin will fix any binge eating and that will get you into trouble fast. Keep in touch with your nurse at the clinic and seek out forums like this to learn . OH, DON'T skim on the dose of insulin, trying to stretch out the vial as that only messes up things. YES, i DID THAT TO SAVE A BUCK WITH NO INSURANCE. since you are not on insurance, figure out how many vials 2 or 3 that it will take to get you by and purchase that much. Some drs include an extra vial and insurance will cover it. My doctor allows for an extra vial, but to save money, I buy what I use without skimping. Good luck. It is gonna be a life long thing.

#10
laly003

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Hi,

I'm not sure if this off site link is allowed but here is an insulin comparison chart of the insulin brands and their timing of effect.

http://courses.washi...sulin Chart.pdf

Also...were you prescribed a pen/cartridge or vial? vials are cheaper...Also, there are websites where you can order syringes or pen needles and strips that might be cheaper than the pharmacy...

#11
isis7412

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Thanks everyone.... It's nice when you go to a new forum and people are ready to interact and are accepting!

As far as needles go, I can use the 50/short and it worked, however, w/ the 75 dose, I see two shots in my future (at least until these needles are gone)... Which really is no different than what I was doing anyway w/ the 20N/45L.

As far as diet goes, I have pretty much cut out all white starches, (potatoes, rice, all the good stuff :D ) and have drastically reduced my bread to maybe an english muffin in the a.m. (I miss Little Debbie's, hahaha!) I can have 3 carb servings a meal, but I usually don't eat all of those. I've found little cheats that are getting me through for the time being... like a scoop of Peanut Butter satisfies a lot of cravings and generally doesn't make my bs climb.

Truthfully, for so many years it was just easy to ignore this and do what I wanted... I foolishly thought that at least if I was going to die early, I'd die eating what I wanted! Until the chest pains hit and I had the truth scared into me... So yeah, I know it's a life long trip... and it sucks, no doubt about it... but at least I am finding out that it's not as debilitating as thought. I mean I am doing it after all, no matter how much I miss the candy and soda! :cool:

#12
Delphinus

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Thanks everyone.... It's nice when you go to a new forum and people are ready to interact and are accepting!

As far as needles go, I can use the 50/short and it worked, however, w/ the 75 dose, I see two shots in my future (at least until these needles are gone)... Which really is no different than what I was doing anyway w/ the 20N/45L.

As far as diet goes, I have pretty much cut out all white starches, (potatoes, rice, all the good stuff :D ) and have drastically reduced my bread to maybe an english muffin in the a.m. (I miss Little Debbie's, hahaha!) I can have 3 carb servings a meal, but I usually don't eat all of those. I've found little cheats that are getting me through for the time being... like a scoop of Peanut Butter satisfies a lot of cravings and generally doesn't make my bs climb.

Truthfully, for so many years it was just easy to ignore this and do what I wanted... I foolishly thought that at least if I was going to die early, I'd die eating what I wanted! Until the chest pains hit and I had the truth scared into me... So yeah, I know it's a life long trip... and it sucks, no doubt about it... but at least I am finding out that it's not as debilitating as thought. I mean I am doing it after all, no matter how much I miss the candy and soda! :cool:




You will probably find over time your injections will increase.

Most of us here on MDI(Myself included)(Multiple daily injections) probably average between six and ten injections a day.

"Control usually improves when insulin is given more often in smaller doses." - Using Insulin by John Walsh, et al.

Great book BTW, you should look into it, and also Think Like a Pancreas by Gary Scheiner.

I eat alot myself. Don't think life is over foodwise. There are many great recipes out there that are GI friendly, and delicious.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Type1 diabetic. Son of a Type1 diabetic. Father to a Type1 diabetic.

+++ Jason




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