Jump to content

Photo

Formula ~ Number of Carbs = # of Glucose Increase?

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1
LCD

LCD

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 218 posts
  • Locationsmall rural town in Alaska
  • I am a:Type 2
YMMV but a general rule of thumb is to calculate 1 unit of insulin = 15 grams

If you not using insulin or other meds, other than diet and exercise, is there a correlation
between the X number of grams with x number of increase in your Blood sugars?

if example, popcorn at 22 grams = increase of 40? vs 1/2 green beans = increase of 20?
The GI index probably plays a part, as well as exercise, but generally speaking
I guess I'm asking if eating less carbs would make your sugars stay lower - which I believe it is true, but is there a formular? < 50 carbs = x increase, 80 carbs = x increase.

Does anyone have a formula for # of carbs = # of glucose increase? I know that by testing these questions can be answered, but I was wondering if any one else had an idea?

Also, how does it effect your PP readings?

#2
ShottleBop

ShottleBop

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 6,437 posts
According to Dr. Bernstein: " . . . if you’re a nonobese type 1 diabetic who weighs 150 pounds (68 kilograms) and makes no insulin, 1 gram of carbohydrate will raise your blood sugar by about 5 mg/dl."
Functionally, a Type 2 (missed the label by th-a-a-a-a-t much)
Dx prediabetic 02/08 (FBG 127 and 123), A1c 6.5
So far, controlled without meds.

#3
LCD

LCD

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 218 posts
  • Locationsmall rural town in Alaska
  • I am a:Type 2

According to Dr. Bernstein: " . . . if you’re a nonobese type 1 diabetic who weighs 150 pounds (68 kilograms) and makes no insulin, 1 gram of carbohydrate will raise your blood sugar by about 5 mg/dl."


Does that mean that if I am at 100 mg prior to meal and I eat 15 gram of carbs that I can go to 175? (15 carbs x 5=175) ?
What should I expect pp in 2 hrs? pp in 4 hrs? Return to under 140?

Is the ratio the same for a 200 or 250 pound person?

Thank you very much, this is helping me make sense of some of my increasing and decreasing numbers.

#4
Tribbles

Tribbles

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,847 posts
It varies from person to person but between 3 and 5 seems normal. If you want to see wait until you have no bolus insulin, measure your levels, take 15g of glucose tablets, wait 20 minutes, and remeasure. The glucose is fast enough to overwhelm the basal insulin and that gives you a fair idea of how it affects you. Drinking water with the glucose tablets helps it act fast as well.

#5
jwags

jwags

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 6,463 posts
  • I am a:Type 2
I am not on insulin and have figured out how many points I normally spike. It really depends on the type of carb I eat. It seems if I can keep my fastings around 100 or below my carb ratio improves. I can eat about 25 carbs of sprouted grain bread and only spike 30 points. So that is about a little over 1:1 ratio. If I wake up higher like 125 than I tend to spike 2-3 points for every carb, so that 25 carb meal may send me 50-70 points. It also varries the time of day. I seem to be more sensitive in the morning and can handle more carbs in the afternoon.
HbA1c 5.3 3/11 , HbA1c 5/12 6.1
metformin 2550 mg
Moderate carb diet 40-75 carbs a day
3 T of Coconut Oil daily

Vit D, CoQ10, Melatonin, Multi vitamin, zinc, B 12
Chia Seeds , Flaxseeds

Exercise- Tennis - 4 hours/week, Power Walking- 2-3 miles most days, Hiking in the summer on trails and in the mountains

diagnosed Feb 2007
Age 63

#6
jenb

jenb

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 4,240 posts
This discussion really highlights how individualized diabetes is! One gram of carb increases my BG between 6 and 9 points. Only testing will tell you how your own body processes carbs.

Jen

#7
NickP

NickP

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,891 posts
I am more like jwags, the time of day is very important, as I am very carb sensitive in the AM. I also find that what I eat with my carbs also impacts my BG readings. So, for me, I need to take into account how many carbs, the GI of each carb (the quality of the carb), the food I am eating with the carbs, and the time of day. Oh....did I also mention that stress will also impact my readings!

Managing your Diabetes can be really confusing. The one thing the Dr Bernstein stresses is the "law of small numbers" - i.e. keep your carb intake low, measuring and responding with a small amount of insulin, will lead to smaller errors in your PP BG readings. I do not use insulin (yet), but keeping my carb intake low is the best way to try to manage the things that I can control!
Nick
Feb 17, 2010 - Initial A1C 9.3 Weight 238
May 26, 2010 - A1C 6.0
Aug 20, 2010 - A1C 5.6
Nov 19, 2010 - A1C 5.8
Mar 1, 2011- A1C 5.7 (No Meds)
Jun 3, 2011 - A1C 5.7 (No Meds)
Oct 31, 2011 - A1C 5.3
Nov 6, 2012 - A1C 5.3
Feb 18, 2014- A1C 5.6 Weight 199

Current Meds:
Metformin 500mg x 2

#8
ShottleBop

ShottleBop

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 6,437 posts

Does that mean that if I am at 100 mg prior to meal and I eat 15 gram of carbs that I can go to 175? (15 carbs x 5=175) ?
What should I expect pp in 2 hrs? pp in 4 hrs? Return to under 140?

Is the ratio the same for a 200 or 250 pound person?

Thank you very much, this is helping me make sense of some of my increasing and decreasing numbers.


Since you are a type 2, and (presumably) still producing some insulin, the amount by which a gram of carbs will raise your blood sugar will likely vary (Dr. Bernstein was talking about someone who produces NO insulin). As others have pointed out, your insulin response may depend upon what, and when, you eat, and that will affect how high your BG goes, and how long it takes to return to base (before-meal number).

And the ratio (1 gram/X points increase in BG) will vary, based on weight. The heavier a person is, the less of an effect a single gram of carbs will have.
Functionally, a Type 2 (missed the label by th-a-a-a-a-t much)
Dx prediabetic 02/08 (FBG 127 and 123), A1c 6.5
So far, controlled without meds.

#9
jwags

jwags

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 6,463 posts
  • I am a:Type 2
I have been D for 4 years and now notice since I have lost almost 40 pounds that my carb ratio has improved. At diagnosis 15 carbs would send me spiking to 300. Now that I have eliminated certain junk food carbs, I seem to be handle more of the healthier carbs. So I think the low carb diet I have been doing has really helped my pancreas to rest and refresh some of my beta cells. I can even go out to dinner and cheat once in awhile and still be close to 100.
HbA1c 5.3 3/11 , HbA1c 5/12 6.1
metformin 2550 mg
Moderate carb diet 40-75 carbs a day
3 T of Coconut Oil daily

Vit D, CoQ10, Melatonin, Multi vitamin, zinc, B 12
Chia Seeds , Flaxseeds

Exercise- Tennis - 4 hours/week, Power Walking- 2-3 miles most days, Hiking in the summer on trails and in the mountains

diagnosed Feb 2007
Age 63

#10
aggie168

aggie168

    Senior Member

  • Validating
  • 1,340 posts
I think a little trial and error will do. Keep in mind the ratio changes through out the day. The other variable to this equation is fat/protein in the meal. For example, Pizza Hut large pan pizza is about 35g per slice. However, due to the fat content, it take 3 to 4 hours longer for me to digest and so I have to bolus it differently on my pump. :)

===============================================
DX 02/2002, Minimed 530G(751) w/CGMS on Novolog
Aspirin 81mg + Lipitor 10mg + Losartan 50mg
10/2013 A1c=5.9 Chol=126 Trig=69 HDL=52 LDL=60
05/2013 A1c=5.7 Chol=137 Trig=79 HDL=47 LDL=74

#11
Lloyd

Lloyd

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,868 posts
1 gram of carb raises my glucose 2 1/2 points.
My pancreas makes almost no insulin when I am on my pump.
Most diabetics can work our a ratio that works for them, but there are so many variables that there can be no universal formula.

2014 A1c 5.4 5.6   2013 5.3 4.9 5.2 5.2
2012 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.0
2011 5.0 5.0 5.2 5.0 2010 5.3 5.3 5.3 5.4 5.4
2009 5.4 5.4 5.3 5.2 2008 5.0 5.1 5.2 4.9 4.9
2007 5.3 5.5 5.7<---Pump 6.9 (Mix)
2006 (Lantus) 7.8 8.5 8.7 7.1
2005 8.4 6.9 7.4 2004 6.2 5.6 6.4 6.0 (Pills)


#12
bigskygal

bigskygal

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 128 posts
Okay, since my insulin needs are bouncing all over the place, I decided to try Tribbles' 15g of glucose test last night. I hadn't eaten for 8 hours (early dinner) and hadn't had any fast-acting insulin since breakfast. Here are my results:

Before glucose: 99
20 minutes after glucose: 104
40 minutes: 158
60 minutes: 133
Next morning (7 hours later): 129

So, any ideas about what these numbers mean? If I take the 158 as my peak even though it happened a lot later than Tribbles predicted, I guess 1g of carbs raises my blood sugars close to 4 mg/dl (at least last night, I seem to swing around a lot). Or, do I take the 130 because that's where my bg ultimately ended up, in which case it's about 2 mg/dl rise per 1g carb. That's a pretty big difference.

And it brings up other questions...do I actually have some first phase insulin response as it took a while for the carbs to raise my blood sugar? Also, is the fact that my blood sugar stayed at the one-hour reading all night an indication that I'm not taking enough basal?

Thanks in advance for any insights on all this!

Kim
Humalog/Levemir
a1c 2/10 = 6.3
a1c 5/10 = 5.2
a1c 8/10 = 5.3
a1c 10/10 = 5.6
also have Grave's Disease (currently in remission :D)

#13
xMenace

xMenace

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 11,085 posts
Hormones definately play a role. Protein and fat do. Carbs obviously give me biggest push. And food quantity matter.

If my insulin is the sailing yacht, food qunatity and fat are the hull, gluconeogenesis is the mainsail -- pronounced main-sell -- protein is the jib, and carbs are the spinnaker.
Michelle Oberg "yep....stop trying to make vegetables taste like meat.....you made your choice, now live with it hippies"

Back on MDI and doing well. Trying Victoza and loving it. A1C 6.0, no major hypos; a few highs; lots of shots. Diagnosed Oct 19th, 1975.
HDL-101; LDL-64; TG-36; TOT-172

#14
Tribbles

Tribbles

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,847 posts

Okay, since my insulin needs are bouncing all over the place, I decided to try Tribbles' 15g of glucose test last night. I hadn't eaten for 8 hours (early dinner) and hadn't had any fast-acting insulin since breakfast. Here are my results:

Before glucose: 99
20 minutes after glucose: 104
40 minutes: 158
60 minutes: 133
Next morning (7 hours later): 129

So, any ideas about what these numbers mean? If I take the 158 as my peak even though it happened a lot later than Tribbles predicted, I guess 1g of carbs raises my blood sugars close to 4 mg/dl (at least last night, I seem to swing around a lot). Or, do I take the 130 because that's where my bg ultimately ended up, in which case it's about 2 mg/dl rise per 1g carb. That's a pretty big difference.


I would take the 158 as the peak and it is a bit late but that happens sometimes, water makes it go faster. I have seen people eat 4g glucose tablets like smarties and still not rise as expected, then it all hits later (or sometimes just vanishes)... The 15 minute mark should show a noticeable rise by rights but like all things with diabetes...

One possible may be that there is some first phase response damping the initial rise and that the 158 is a bit high and is concealing the effect of that first phase response.

#15
bigskygal

bigskygal

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 128 posts
@ xMenace...So it seems YMMV applies not only between people but also to the same person at different times...this gets more complicated every minute!!

@Tribbles...thanks for the analysis. I'll try it again at another time of day and see if the response is different. I did drink a bunch of water...hate the taste of glucose tabs.
Humalog/Levemir
a1c 2/10 = 6.3
a1c 5/10 = 5.2
a1c 8/10 = 5.3
a1c 10/10 = 5.6
also have Grave's Disease (currently in remission :D)

#16
Tribbles

Tribbles

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,847 posts

did drink a bunch of water...hate the taste of glucose tabs.

Dex4 tablets are horrible but the ones from the Duane Reade chain are wonderful! Most pharmacies just relabel the Dex4 tablets but Duane Reade are made by someone else (they have an RP on them if that helps).

#17
VeeJay

VeeJay

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 367 posts
Phase I insulin response?

Am I interpreting some of the comments correctly..... if, after a meal, one's BG levels do not spike until after two hours, then one's pancreas is putting out some phase one insulin? I ask because I have been wondering how I could tell if this were so.

Obviously, since I am not on meds or insulin, I am still producing some insulin, although if I eat more than 20 carbs at a meal I can spike well over 150, so I have to keep the level of carbs very low and eat more fats so as not to need much insulin in the first place. I had thought that I didn't get a phase I insulin response, but maybe it's there, but just not much.
___________________________________________
Type 2 -- diagnosed May 2010
no meds -- VeryLoCarb/high fat -- little exercise
BG steady with no highs or lows
8/13/10 A1C 5.5 (lab) :)
10/2/10 A1C 5.1 (home) :D
4/1/11 A1C 5.3 (lab) :D




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users