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Liver Damage and Diabetes

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#1
Daytona

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I'm a newly diagnosed type 2. Five years ago I was diagnosed with stage 4 endometriosis and started having liver damage (high ALS/AST etc) show up on my blood tests and started having liver related digestion issues. My fasting blood sugar has always been under 100 (as recently as March 2010). I went downhill fast and when I saw my Endocrinologist in November I was diagnosed with an AC1 of 7 and fasting blood sugar of 397 and no insulin resistance.

Also for the past 5 years I had been working out regularly and eating a low carb diet, 50 - 130 carbs, 1200 cal / day. I have been overweight for 3 years (despite my efforts!) so maybe I just need to suck it up and accept that's why I got diabetes.

Basically I'm wondering if there could be a relationship between the liver damage and my diabetes? Or if due to the liver issues I should be considering different diabetes medications than glipizide?

#2
samorgan

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Absolutely, especially if your main indicator is fasting blood sugar. It would appear that you DO have insulin resistance, just not of the muscles. Your liver is resistant (hepatic insulin resistance) and so the insulin which is present fails to prevent it from dumping stored glycogen as glucose when told to do so by cortisol or other functions. (One of the five jobs of insulin is to prevent the liver from dumping glucose until it really should. When the liver is insulin resistant, it fails to "listen" to this - but still listens to other signals telling it to dump away.)

I don't know much about liver disease but if you are treating that perhaps it will help. Another possible approach might be to deplete the glycogen stores in your liver via a LC/HF (ketogenic) diet. You could consult your doctor but he/she probably won't be willing to talk about this and/or might no know anything about it. In any case, if it is not strongly counter-indicated in your particular case it might be an effective option.

Your A1C is VERY low considering a FBG of 397. This would seem to indicate that at this point your liver is the main problem.
Salim Morgan, T2
58 Years Old
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: 24 minute bike ride 5 days/wk
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 11
Edited 6/2011: +1 yr of age, less exercise :(, +2 more grandkids :)

#3
Daytona

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Wow, thanks you sure know a lot about this! I didn't know that there were different types of insulin resistance but this makes sense that my diabetes is related. Liver disease runs in my family (mine started acting up when I was 23). Here's to hoping that they figure it out how to fix me and my diabetes goes away with it. ;-)

My FBG is mostly just high in the morning, the rest of the day it's 80-95. After 3 months of glipizide, Lupron, diet adjustments and staying off ALL other medications (even asprin...), it's getting to be 95-110 in the morning, which I think is good. I'll look into the ketogenic diet and ask my doctor when I see her next week. I think you're right that she'll brush it off but you never know.

#4
Brandon-A

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I'm interested in this thread because I have had a fatty liver since my late teens. Now, since 3/1/2011, I have been diagnosed with Type-II. So, I will follow this.

Good luck.

#5
samorgan

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I saw a vary interesting science lecture which claimed that high fructose consumption directly causes non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. It was explained in great detail including the metabolic pathways, etc. We all know about "high fructose corn syrup" but did you know that it is hardly any different from ordinary table sugar? Approximately the same mix of glucose and fructose. The main reason it is harmful is not so much what it contains but the fact that it is CHEAP and they have gotten away with putting it in EVERYTHING simply because it is not "sugar" on the label. Also, one of the biggest sources of fructose? The ever-innocent, 100% healthy FRUIT. I try to never eat more than 15g of fructose in any one day from any source.
Salim Morgan, T2
58 Years Old
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: 24 minute bike ride 5 days/wk
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 11
Edited 6/2011: +1 yr of age, less exercise :(, +2 more grandkids :)

#6
Hammer

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I remember watching a video about high fructose corn syrup that someone here posted a link to. I thought I bookmarked that link, but I can't find it.

Anyway, the speaker in the video was explaining how HFCS acted exactly like a poison in your body, and that it wasn't like anything natural. His explanation used a lot of medical terms, but he would always try try to explain the medical terms in layman's terms.

What I got from his explanation is that HFCS doesn't react in your body like sugar does. When you consume sugar, neurotransmitters send signals to your brain that tells it to release insulin to counteract the glucose that the sugar becomes. The brain also tells you when you're full so that you stop eating.

With HFCS, this doesn't happen. The HFCS doesn't send signals to release insulin, plus it doesn't send signals to make you feel full. You end up consuming more of whatever you are drinking because you are not satisfied, like you would be if sugar was used instead. BY using HFCS in soft drinks, it makes you drink more of the soft drink. It makes the makers of the soft drinks richer, and it makes you fatter.

The speaker said that every country that has introduced HFCS has seen a rapid increase in obesity within a few years after it's been introduced.

If anyone has the link to that video, please post it so I can bookmark it.

Presently taking: Hyzaar for blood pressure:
Novolog and Lantus for diabetes.
Welchol for cholesterol and diabetes
Mega-Red Omega-3 Krill Oil (300 mg)
Mega-Red D3 (5000 IU)
I was diagnosed in 2003...

(The human body is so resilient that no matter how badly you abuse it, it will still last you a lifetime.)


#7
thisstinks

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did you start any new meds recently when it got worse?

big pharma is killing us all.......

#8
ant hill

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Hammer I seem to have found it as I have seen this and it does explain about HFCS work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Is this what you are after Hammer??


nz9q.jpg

Peter...


#9
Hammer

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Yes, that's it Peter, thanks!

Presently taking: Hyzaar for blood pressure:
Novolog and Lantus for diabetes.
Welchol for cholesterol and diabetes
Mega-Red Omega-3 Krill Oil (300 mg)
Mega-Red D3 (5000 IU)
I was diagnosed in 2003...

(The human body is so resilient that no matter how badly you abuse it, it will still last you a lifetime.)


#10
samorgan

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That could all be correct, but as I recall what you have mentioned applies to just plain FRUCTOSE, whatever its source. That would include even excessive consumption of fresh fruit or fruit juice.

I'm certainly not defending HFCS, but there could be more to it.


I remember watching a video about high fructose corn syrup that someone here posted a link to. I thought I bookmarked that link, but I can't find it.

Anyway, the speaker in the video was explaining how HFCS acted exactly like a poison in your body, and that it wasn't like anything natural. His explanation used a lot of medical terms, but he would always try try to explain the medical terms in layman's terms.

What I got from his explanation is that HFCS doesn't react in your body like sugar does. When you consume sugar, neurotransmitters send signals to your brain that tells it to release insulin to counteract the glucose that the sugar becomes. The brain also tells you when you're full so that you stop eating.

With HFCS, this doesn't happen. The HFCS doesn't send signals to release insulin, plus it doesn't send signals to make you feel full. You end up consuming more of whatever you are drinking because you are not satisfied, like you would be if sugar was used instead. BY using HFCS in soft drinks, it makes you drink more of the soft drink. It makes the makers of the soft drinks richer, and it makes you fatter.

The speaker said that every country that has introduced HFCS has seen a rapid increase in obesity within a few years after it's been introduced.

If anyone has the link to that video, please post it so I can bookmark it.


Salim Morgan, T2
58 Years Old
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: 24 minute bike ride 5 days/wk
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 11
Edited 6/2011: +1 yr of age, less exercise :(, +2 more grandkids :)

#11
samorgan

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That's the same one! If you notice, even though he's talking about HFCS, all the bad stuff he's talking about applies to ANY fructose whether split off from HFCS, table sugar or a fresh date!


Hammer I seem to have found it as I have seen this and it does explain about HFCS work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
Is this what you are after Hammer??


Salim Morgan, T2
58 Years Old
DX: 9/2009 A1C=10.7
A1C 2/2010: 6.7 (DX + 4 months)
A1C 5/2010: 6.0 (DX + 8 months)
A1C 8/2010: 5.7 (DX + 11 months)
A1C 11/2010: 5.1 (DX + 14 months)
Diet: Approximately C:10;P:15;F:75 (as % calories)
Ketogenic (Most of the time)
Exercise: 24 minute bike ride 5 days/wk
NO MEDS, No Highs, No Lows
Grandkids: 11
Edited 6/2011: +1 yr of age, less exercise :(, +2 more grandkids :)

#12
mjrc64

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Hi Daytona,

I also have fatty liver disease, and that was diagnosed before my diabetes by 2 years. So, i think my liver is the influencing factor for me. I have totally changed my eating and drinking and exercise habits and see the blloodwork results to show for it. I di dhave alot I could change, but you sound like your diet was close to what my is after changing.

I have not needed meds and the lower carb, diabetic eating, and other changes seem to have gotten my high liver enzymes normal, and the longer those stay down, the more stable my BG seems to be. And, well, I also dropped 56 pounds so far.

SO, Liver is definately a big part. Keep an eye on it. I needed a biopsy this past November and was shocked and evestated to find I have *significant* fibrosis. This is becoming increasingly diagnosed the past few years, since we initially thoguth I had the "middle aged fatty liver of some fat women." Suddenly this year, my doc was all about getting aggressive with my diagnosis. And she was right on the money.

Hopefully I am halting the progression, now. I pray I am. The alternative is not pretty at all.

Do read up on NAFLD/NASH. It intersects in alot of ways and is not uncommonly present in diabetics.

mi-
Michele

A1c: 8.3 on 9/9/10 and
5.3 on 12/6/10
5.0 and fasting BG 96 on 12/2/11
5.0 and fasting BG 105 on 1/6/13
5.2(different lab) and fasting BG of 103

TG: 456 on 9/9/10, 125 on 12/6/10, 195 on 1/6/13, 106 9/13/13(Yay!)

Maintaining a 50 pound weight loss, striving to make it 60 or 70!

#13
Daytona

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I realized that I misremembered my AC1 from December, it was actually 9.4. I just had new blood test this week and it was 7.2. My liver numbers are still bad but this is the first significant improvement after years of checking. I'm not sure what is helping, either staying off all OTC meds or starting the hormone treatment Lupron. Either way, this is so encouraging, after years of bumbling around with jerk doctors, expensive tests and insurance ****, I finally feel like I can get better.

I don't know much about what is wrong with my liver other than all the liver panel numbers are scary high and I have had lots of liver related symptoms. I'm going to look into non-alcoholic fatty liver, I see endo doc on Monday and will ask her about that.

As for fructose, man that would really put a dent in some of my favorite snacks if it's bad for me... So far I've been able to eat fruit 2x a day (small apple or orange) and still control my blood sugar levels. I'd hate to give up the one snack that I enjoy. If I can't have soy or dairy or fruit, what the heck can I use for a snack other than nuts? :-)




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