Jump to content

Photo

Benfotiamine and Neuropathy

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1
neilin

neilin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
I did a search on Benfotiamine in the threads, and came across some information that was a couple of years old or so. Being new here, I may not have navigated properly, and perhaps I am not posting in the right area. If not, please feel free to move this thread to its proper place.
I am interested in hearing updated information from people who have been or are still using Benfotiamine to treat Neuropathy. My interest is in how well Benfotiamine works for you the Neuropathy sufferer, what dosage you find effective and to what degree, and the best sources for what you feel is quality Benfotiamine.
Your assistance and help is much appreciated. Thank you in advance for any replys!

#2
georgepds

georgepds

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,044 posts
Nelin

I've no direct experience, but my favorite diabetes blogger, David Mendosa, has written about it here Benfotiamine versus AGEs. It seems it is used in Germany

If it is neuropathy you are concerned about, there are several treatments On-line Diabetes Resources: Diabetic Neuropathy

HTH
--G

#3
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
I was experiencing pins and needles and numbness in my hands decided to give benfotiamine a try after researching it. Took 150 mg for approximately 3 months it resolved my neuropathy.

This is a google scholar search for benfotiamine.

benfotiamine diabetes - Google Scholar

#4
ymk

ymk

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
Yes ! It certainly does work. I've been using it for a number of years and it gives relief from pins and needles as well as numbness.

#5
neilin

neilin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Yes ! It certainly does work. I've been using it for a number of years and it gives relief from pins and needles as well as numbness.

What dosage works for you? Thanks!

#6
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
Here's something I found on the net regarding dosages.

So far the scientific community itself has not determined the therapeutic or toxic dose of benfotiamine. I have written to Prof. Roland Bitsch of the University of Jena in Germany, who did some of the original work on benfotiamine, and he thinks even a low dose, around 150 mg/day would be sufficient. I also wrote to Brownlee a long time ago, and his view then was already that 600 mg/day was likely to prove necessary. In Germany benfotiamine has been used for years to treat alcoholic neuritis in very large doses, involving thousands of mg. per day, with no ill effects noted. It has an astonishingly high LD50 level, which is how toxicity is measured, and since all it does is help concentrate vitamin B1 around the nerves and make it bioavailable for neurological nutrition, it should not be very toxic. No toxic effects of benfotiamine in clinical practice have ever been reported, and the product literature supplied with benfotiamine purchased from the Woerwag company says that "no side effects have as yet been reported," and in case of accidental overdose "no medical intervention is required." So my net guess is that it would be safe to take 600 mg/day.

#7
neilin

neilin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Here's something I found on the net regarding dosages.

So far the scientific community itself has not determined the therapeutic or toxic dose of benfotiamine. I have written to Prof. Roland Bitsch of the University of Jena in Germany, who did some of the original work on benfotiamine, and he thinks even a low dose, around 150 mg/day would be sufficient. I also wrote to Brownlee a long time ago, and his view then was already that 600 mg/day was likely to prove necessary. In Germany benfotiamine has been used for years to treat alcoholic neuritis in very large doses, involving thousands of mg. per day, with no ill effects noted. It has an astonishingly high LD50 level, which is how toxicity is measured, and since all it does is help concentrate vitamin B1 around the nerves and make it bioavailable for neurological nutrition, it should not be very toxic. No toxic effects of benfotiamine in clinical practice have ever been reported, and the product literature supplied with benfotiamine purchased from the Woerwag company says that "no side effects have as yet been reported," and in case of accidental overdose "no medical intervention is required." So my net guess is that it would be safe to take 600 mg/day.

Thanks for the information!

#8
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
Are you aware of this study on thiamine deficiency in diabetics.

In a paper entitled "High prevalence of low plasma thiamine concentration in diabetes linked to a marker of vascular disease", published in Diabetologia on 4th August, the team found that thiamine concentration in blood plasma was decreased 76% in type 1 diabetic patients and 75% in type 2 diabetic patients. This significant decrease had been previously masked as the conventional way of assessing levels of thiamine status was to measure the activity of an enzyme called transketolase in red blood cells

Researchers find vitamin B1 deficiency key to vascular problems for diabetic patients

#9
neilin

neilin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts

Are you aware of this study on thiamine deficiency in diabetics.

In a paper entitled "High prevalence of low plasma thiamine concentration in diabetes linked to a marker of vascular disease", published in Diabetologia on 4th August, the team found that thiamine concentration in blood plasma was decreased 76% in type 1 diabetic patients and 75% in type 2 diabetic patients. This significant decrease had been previously masked as the conventional way of assessing levels of thiamine status was to measure the activity of an enzyme called transketolase in red blood cells

[url=http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/researchers_find_vitamin/]Researchers find vitamin B1 deficiency key to vascular problems for diabetic patients[/url]

No, I was not aware of the study. I clicked the link you provided and read the article. If I understand correctly what I read, Benfotiamine should be of benefit.
Thanks for taking the time for your postings!

#10
PinkRose

PinkRose

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 601 posts
  • I am a:Type 1

Are you aware of this study on thiamine deficiency in diabetics.

In a paper entitled "High prevalence of low plasma thiamine concentration in diabetes linked to a marker of vascular disease", published in Diabetologia on 4th August, the team found that thiamine concentration in blood plasma was decreased 76% in type 1 diabetic patients and 75% in type 2 diabetic patients. This significant decrease had been previously masked as the conventional way of assessing levels of thiamine status was to measure the activity of an enzyme called transketolase in red blood cells

Researchers find vitamin B1 deficiency key to vascular problems for diabetic patients


Thanks a lot for posting this article. Very interesting! So if we're not dietary deficient in thiamine but rather, the body is removing thiamine from the blood into the urine, how do we counteract this? By taking extra doses of thiamine aka benfotiamine? I would appreciate any advice on this point.

Thanks again!

#11
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
This is what I tried when I first became aware of the thiamine deficiency.
I would take a 100 mg B1 tablet and break it into quarters and take 25 mg four times a day. I did this because thiamine is water soluble and quickly washes out of your system.

Then I read on the net about garlic and a new form of thiamine similar to benfotiamine so I would take my quarters and crush them in a clove of garlic hoping I was converting the thiamine to a cheap benfotiamine.

When I did a google scholar search for benfotiamine diabetes and saw the results for neuropathy retinopathy and nephroprathy I decided to give benfotiamine a try. I purchased mine from benfotiamine.org and started taking 300 mg for about 2 weeks and then dropped it to 150 mg.I would wake up in the morning and my hands would be numb and tingling after the first bottle it was gone and has not returned that is what convinced me.

#12
zeb

zeb

    Junior Member

  • 500 plus
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
There is a *prescription* supplement used for Diabetic Neuropathy called Metanx. I strongly suggest you visit their web site: Feel The Difference : Metanx® Feel the Difference. The site has a host of useful info for diabetics on neuropathy.

I take two 150mg capsules of Benfotiamine and two tablets of Metanx. They do fine for me. Benfotiamine alone is not sufficient.
Zeb

#13
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
What are the Ingredients in Metanx®?
L-methylfolate Calcium (as Metafolin®) 3 mg
Pyridoxal 5' -phosphate 35 mg
Methylcobalamin

L-methylfolate Calcium i s a bio active form of folic acid vitamin B9
Methylcobalamin is the bio active form of B12 and should be taken sublingually.

Both these vitamins should be taken by anyone taking metformin since the clinical evidence strongly supports depletion of both by metformin.

Pyridoxal 5' -phosphate is a form of B6 B6 deficiency is a very rare occurrence with a proper diet.

#14
PinkRose

PinkRose

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 601 posts
  • I am a:Type 1

There is a *prescription* supplement used for Diabetic Neuropathy called Metanx. I strongly suggest you visit their web site: Feel The Difference : Metanx® Feel the Difference. The site has a host of useful info for diabetics on neuropathy.

I take two 150mg capsules of Benfotiamine and two tablets of Metanx. They do fine for me. Benfotiamine alone is not sufficient.
Zeb


Metanx sounds great but it does not contain thiamine Vit B1, which is what has been considered in this thread. It contains folic acid & B6, which no doubt help neuropathy as well.

#15
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
What you are trying to achieve by supplementing B1 is a shunting of the hyperglycemic metabolites to a different biological pathway known as PPP the pentose phosphate pathway.

Here is a flow diagram of the four known pathways that lead to diabetic complications.

Attached File  figure1.gif   9.5KB   55 downloads

If sufficient thiamine is present the pentose phosphate pathway is utilized.
Attached File  figure2.gif   6.85KB   53 downloads


Some of the technical details.

Three of the major biochemical pathways implicated in the pathogenesis of hyperglycemia induced vascular damage (the hexosamine pathway, the advanced glycation end product (AGE) formation pathway and the diacylglycerol (DAG)−protein kinase C (PKC) pathway) are activated by increased availability of the glycolytic metabolites glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate and fructose-6-phosphate. We have discovered that the lipid-soluble thiamine derivative benfotiamine can inhibit these three pathways, as well as hyperglycemia-associated NF-kappaB activation, by activating the pentose phosphate pathway enzyme transketolase, which converts glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate and fructose-6-phosphate into pentose-5-phosphates and other sugars. In retinas of diabetic animals, benfotiamine treatment inhibited these three pathways and NF-kappaB activation by activating transketolase, and also prevented experimental diabetic retinopathy. The ability of benfotiamine to inhibit three major pathways simultaneously might be clinically useful in preventing the development and progression of diabetic complications.

Benfotiamine blocks three major pathways of hyperglycemic damage and prevents experimental diabetic retinopathy - Nature Medicine

#16
georgepds

georgepds

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,044 posts

What you are trying to achieve by supplementing B1 is a shunting of the hyperglycemic metabolites to a different biological pathway known as PPP the pentose phosphate pathway...


Benfotiamine blocks three major pathways of hyperglycemic damage and prevents experimental diabetic retinopathy - Nature Medicine


Axiom

I found the diagrams interesting, but could not find anything but the abstract , not the source.. Do you have an online source for these diagrams

TIA
--g

#17
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
CIN'2003. Thornalley. Prevention of incipient diabetic nephropathy

This study was done on rats using benfotiamine and thiamine.

Another study performed by Thornalley using only thiamine to alleviate micro albumin.

10.1007/s00125-008-1224-4

#18
georgepds

georgepds

    Senior Member

  • 500 plus
  • 1,044 posts
Axiom, Thanks

OP: benfotiamine ( a derivative of vitamin B1) is used in Germany with another supplement (available OTC) called Pyridoxamine (a derivative of vitamin B6)

from Wikipedia

"However, in Germany doctors have been known to combine benfotiamine with pyridoxine hydrochloride and use it to treat patients with nerve damage and nerve pain such as sciatica."

#19
Axiom

Axiom

    Member

  • 500 plus
  • 194 posts
Yes anecdotallly I suffered nerve damage to my hand when I was younger pre diabetic the only thing a Canadian Dr.(Iranian descent) came up with was B complex 100mg all B vitamins. worked like a charm. I am no longer interested in Benfotiamine as a remedy for nerve damage I am taking it prophetically to prevent endothelial damgae ( blood vessel inner layer)
my main concern is heart attack I suffered from peripheral arterial disease

PAD presented as a pain in my right calf after walking about 100 yards. Doppler shift ultra sound revealed a 58% occlusion in right femoral artery
followed the Pauling Rath vitamin c lysine proline protocol for 2 months occlusion was removed as revealed once again by ultra sound still follow that regime as well.

A little off topic but if you were to google the benefits of vitamin c sorbitol polyol pathway you would see the advantages of taking vitamin c to ward off the effects of this horseman of neuropathy the first toxic metabolite of hyperglycemia.
T2 ;7 years
HbA1c 5.1(october 2010)
Met,500mgx2
Benfotiamine 150 mg
Psyllium 2 Tbsp
Vit C 1000mg + 2 gm lysine 1.5 gm proline
4gm fish oil

#20
zeb

zeb

    Junior Member

  • 500 plus
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts

Metanx sounds great but it does not contain thiamine Vit B1, which is what has been considered in this thread. It contains folic acid & B6, which no doubt help neuropathy as well.


Sorry,

I didn't know other ideas shouldn't be posted even tho it might help the original person's question. Won't do it anymore.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users