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#1
cdm-ochm

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Anyone have any news on this? 



#2
Tribbles

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A lot of researchers are currently looking at using existing drugs to promote beta cell growth or mediate the auto-immune response. The problem is that to date although a lot of things have worked with mice they have failed with humans (turns out mice beta cells are not good models for human beta cells). This is the latest go around on that loop. It works by reducing a protein that is thought to kill beta cells. The protein is caused by high glucose levels.

 

There is a trial funded by the JDRF scheduled to be three years long so don't look for anything soon. They are testing in new Type 1 diabetics to see if verapamil extends the honeymoon period. It will not stop the auto-immune cell destruction, but the hope is that it will reduce the cell death caused glucotoxicity.



#3
Hoping4Cure

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Considering that beta cells continually re-grow (even extremely slowly) even in type 1 diabetics for decades, I think I will try this verapamil myself. My plan is to let my sugars get high, drink a couple espressos, then go to a clinic and get a script for 240mg per day (slow release / SR version. I'll start with 80mg then increase gradually) of verapamil. I'm also going to try IGF-1 at the same time to stimulate beta cell growth.

 

I've been diabetic 22 years now, and have tried numerous other drugs to try and cure myself. This is probably way safer than injecting 50 doses of BCG intravenously that I did three years ago. Victoza was the drug that so far worked the best (my sugars stabilized a lot and I felt more "solid", more calm), but I couldn't stand the headaches and nausea so I stopped.

 

Hopefully verapamil + IGF-1 will do something. Even 2-5% beta cell function apparently protects you from hypoglycemia, so even if it works partially to restore my insulin production, I should feel a lot better. I'll update this thread as soon as I get some. I'll be monitoring my sugars extensively as well as my blood pressure to try and see any changes.


Edited by Hoping4Cure, 10 November 2014 - 12:52 PM.

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#4
Hoping4Cure

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Verapamil:

 

http://kxan.com/2014/11/06/diabetes-cured-in-lab-mice-at-alabama-university/

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/285033.php

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141106082041.htm

 

Victoza / Liraglutide:

 

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/825713

 

I'm considering going back on Victoza, or one of the other options at the end. I did remember losing some weight and feeling better. I'm happy 1.2mg seems better than 1.8mg in their study, 1.8mg was really hard to take. But I want to find something similar that gives less headaches first.



#5
Hoping4Cure

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I just got my script for verapamil today. I went to a walk-in clinic, told the GP there that I couldn't see my usual endo to get my script filled for a few months since I missed an appointment (BS story, bro), and here's the meds I usually take. I could probably have asked for Prevacid 24hr as well but I got some coming in the mail next week from Amazon, and I didn't want to push my luck.

 

So my script is for 2 pills per day, 120mg SR (slow release) each. AFAIK that's pretty close to what the study participants will be taking. I'm hoping a combination of this, Prevacid, and maybe IGF-1 could get the ol' motorboat I call a pancreas started again.

 

I'm not expecting miracles, just hoping for any improvement to my daily suffering. Mostly some protection from nasty hypoglycemic episodes would be a big improvement to my quality of life.



#6
Hoping4Cure

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Took my first pill last night before bed.

 

I also received my first shipment of Prevacid, going to start that one on friday after a few days of 1 pill / day (120 SR) of verapamil. Then after another week or two, depending on side effects and how I feel, I'll up the verapamil to 2/day. I have six months' worth of stock so if I see some positive results by then, I'll continue. 

 

I intend to supplement this regimen with more aggressive testing cycle, even lower calorie diet, trying to reduce my insulin intake, taking ibuprofen the max per day, and maybe even adding IGF-1 and Victoza back into the mix (last time I was on it, I lost a lot of weight and my sugars improved drastically). I want to stack the odds in my favor.

 

I wonder what dosage the official verapamil trial is using, apparently the max safe dose is 480mg per day but after 360 they say it has less effect. I have my own blood pressure testing machine handy to make sure I don't dip too low, and salty almonds around in case I need a blood pressure boost.



#7
feibelman

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I've been a Type 1 diabetic for 25 years. I saw the UAB news release about verapamil and decided to try it. I filled a prescription for 240mg ER and took 1/2 a pill yesterday. I will take 1/2 a pill each day for the first week and watch for side effects. After one week, I will take a fill 240mg ER pill every morning. I'm now wearing a heart monitor regularly, check blood pressure often, and check blood glucose almost hourly while awake. I know it is early (just 1/2 pill yesterday) but I could swear my sugar levels are much lower even though I've reduced my bolus insulin significantly (30% less starting with lunch yesterday).


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#8
Hoping4Cure

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The more people who try it independently the better!

 

This is the original mouse study:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3314354/

 

Mice received verapamil in their drinking water (1 mg/mL), resulting in an average dose of 100 mg/kg/day, which is the commonly used dose for mouse studies of this kind (7,10). (A subset of mice received a lower dose of 0.5 mg/mL in their drinking water, resulting in an average dose of 50 mg/kg/day.) Control mice were housed under identical conditions without verapamil. Blood glucose was measured with a FreeStyle Lite glucometer; serum insulin was assessed using a mouse insulin ELISA kit (Alpco Diagnostics, Salem, NH).

 

------------------

I've already upped my dose to add the second pill per day, since I feel fine. So I'm doing 240 SR pills/day, in 2 pills x 120 each.

 

However, if you look at the mouse study, they are using a MUCH higher dose of verapamil relative to their body mass than is safe or approved for use in humans. I hope this shows some improvement, I had slightly high blood pressure anyway so I should be OK. (I am testing my BP often as well). The most I've seen people taking is 480/day * 2 = 960mg, which for my 100kg mass is still 1/10th of the amount as mice. Right now I'm at 1/40th the mouse dose, so if my c-peptides don't go up, that's a prime culprit. I'm trying to scour the net to find out what they plan on giving their 1 year study participants, I believe I read that it's 2x SR but it didn't mention the dosage. I assume it's within the normal approved-for-BP-use dosage range.

 

I'm not sure I'm going to even bother taking any prevacid, the latest study on that didn't show any improvement on blood sugars. IGF-1 might be something to consider next, but that's also on the "protect beta cells" side, and my antibody tests came back negative last time but I'm not sure what that proves, since I've been type 1 for 22 years. Perhaps my beta cells are totally gone or so far gone that the antibody levels have gone down in proportion, maybe they will go back up in response to natural insulin again. According to someone else I've been in contact with, reducing the amount of external insulin you need per day, while maintaining stable blood sugars, is the best environment to stimulate new beta cell growth since they will be less stressed. 

 

I'm hoping any improvements to my blood sugars that come out of taking this drug, will have a cumulative effect to benefit future growth, and have a domino effect that reaches some kind of equilibrium with the amount of verapamil is in my system.

 

The proof is in the data, right? If my meter readings / graphs show improvement in long-term or daily averages or variance, keeping all other factors in my life the same (food, exercise, stress, sleep), then something beneficial is happening due solely to the drug. If not, it might require a higher dose, or perhaps some other way to stimulate beta cell growth in combination to verapamil's protective effect. A lot of the studies combine two such drugs, such as the dyamid one, which didn't pan out in terms of positive results.

 

There's another one that's been shown to stimulate natural beta cell growth, but it involves an injection of a drug directly into the pancreas, and there's no way I can do that on my own so it's a non-starter. What we need is a list of known, effective beta cell growth stimulants.

 

The way this forum could help is by sharing which drugs might do that, that are purchaseable online or available through an Rx. (getting one can be a real hassle, I tried 1/2 dozen times to score some BCG a few years ago, in the end I had to rely on a doctor I knew in Europe to ship me some since I couldn't get some any other way).


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#9
Hoping4Cure

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I've been a Type 1 diabetic for 25 years. I saw the UAB news release about verapamil and decided to try it. I filled a prescription for 240mg ER and took 1/2 a pill yesterday. I will take 1/2 a pill each day for the first week and watch for side effects. After one week, I will take a fill 240mg ER pill every morning. I'm now wearing a heart monitor regularly, check blood pressure often, and check blood glucose almost hourly while awake. I know it is early (just 1/2 pill yesterday) but I could swear my sugar levels are much lower even though I've reduced my bolus insulin significantly (30% less starting with lunch yesterday).

 

I asked my pharmacist about cutting the pills in half and they told me not to do that. Not sure why, maybe it's BS. The pamphlet with the list of side effects that came with it also says not to do that.

 

I just started right off on 120 SR, two days later I'm already on 240, but my BP is on the high range normally so this is probably a med I can get my official GP to give me, instead of some random clinic doctor. The bigger challenge will be getting a higher / day doseage if after 6 months I see some improvement (I have 6 refills on my current Rx of 60 pills per month).

 

I can probably just start adding salt to my food again if I see my BPs dipping below normal. I'm not a huge salt lover, but I never put salt on food, most food already has plenty of sodium.


Edited by Hoping4Cure, 27 November 2014 - 09:20 AM.

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#10
feibelman

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I asked my pharmacist about cutting the pills in half and they told me not to do that. Not sure why, maybe it's BS. The pamphlet with the list of side effects that came with it also says not to do that.

 

I just started right off on 120 SR, two days later I'm already on 240, but my BP is on the high range normally so this is probably a med I can get my official GP to give me, instead of some random clinic doctor. The bigger challenge will be getting a higher / day doseage if after 6 months I see some improvement (I have 6 refills on my current Rx of 60 pills per month).

 

I can probably just start adding salt to my food again if I see my BPs dipping below normal. I'm not a huge salt lover, but I never put salt on food, most food already has plenty of sodium.

 

Thanks for your postings; I look forward to comparing results. I got the Verapamil 240mg ER tablets and they state that the extended release tablets will work if cut in half. These tablets actually have a splice mark in the center I suppose for easier titration upwards. I will likely move to the full tablet once per day fairly soon as I haven't had any negative side effects either. I also saw the crazy amounts they were giving to the mice and figure that 480mg / day is about the max I would want to do. I noticed that I took 4 units of insulin instead of 6 for lunch yesterday and  6 instead of 9 for dinner last night. My BG levels were still between 100 and 150 mostly which is abnormally good for me post meals. I took the standard 20 units of Lantus and woke up at 3am with a low ... 63. Before, I almost always average over 200 when I check around 3am. Granted, this is one day and like you say the proof will be in longer term averages going forward compared to before taking verapamil. I'm going to continue taking less insulin as my biggest fear with this experiment is that it actually works or works too fast and I don't curtail insulin fast enough.

 

Do you know how long the ER or the SR versions generally stay in your system in terms of hours?



#11
feibelman

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FYI - The following link states that the Verapamil ER tablet can be halved. http://www.drugs.com...se-tablets.html

 



#12
feibelman

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FYI - The following link states that the Verapamil ER tablet can be halved. http://www.drugs.com...se-tablets.html

 

According to that link the peak for the ER tablet is 8 hours later and it doesn't say but I would guess it lasts at least another 8 before half-way back down the peak. Given this information, I should probably be taking the ER tablet at night and may explain lower insulin needs for lunch/dinner yesterday?



#13
Hoping4Cure

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I wouldn't put too much stock in a single day's sugars, there's no way the beta cells regenerate that quickly, and there's too much chance for some random variation to affect your levels to really know for sure either way.

 

Blood meter graphs and then a c-peptide milkshake challenge test at the clinic should be enough to see any real results.

 

The most I would do is 960, but only after taking several months' worth of 240, then 480, then 720, etc...inching up that way.

 

I think two SR pills should cover you all day and night pretty well, taking them 12 hours apart. Maybe my next step will be 360mg, taking 3x per day, 8 hours apart.

 

I was reading up on an alternative cure on mice published this year, involving injecting the compound found in chili peppers, but not even I'm crazy enough to try injecting capsaicin (chilis!) that into my own pancreas. LOL

 

Still, it's intriguing that their theory that it's malfunctioning pain neurons being killed artificially could allow beta cells to re-grow. I'm not in favor of "killing" anything inside me, generally, but if it works, why not? I'm curious why there aren't other pain meds that help diabetics. Generally speaking anti-inflammatory like ibuprofen or aspirin are seen as beneficial for type2s, but I'd like to find some other drugs to combine with verapamil's protective effect to stimulate beta cell growth. Like a 1-2 punch. Or more like a block, punch combo.

 

Any ideas? Let's put together a list of compounds that supposedly stimulate beta cell growth. I read somewhere that gastrin, the compound in prevacid, in theory should do that, but the recent studies showing no improvement after long-term use of prevacid + an immunosuppressant make me weary of going down that path.


Edited by Hoping4Cure, 27 November 2014 - 01:17 PM.


#14
feibelman

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I wouldn't put too much stock in a single day's sugars, there's no way the beta cells regenerate that quickly, and there's too much chance for some random variation to affect your levels to really know for sure either way.

 

Blood meter graphs and then a c-peptide milkshake challenge test at the clinic should be enough to see any real results.

 

The most I would do is 960, but only after taking several months' worth of 240, then 480, then 720, etc...inching up that way.

 

I think two SR pills should cover you all day and night pretty well, taking them 12 hours apart. Maybe my next step will be 360mg, taking 3x per day, 8 hours apart.

 

I was reading up on an alternative cure on mice published this year, involving injecting the compound found in chili peppers, but not even I'm crazy enough to try injecting capsaicin (chilis!) that into my own pancreas. LOL

 

Still, it's intriguing that their theory that it's malfunctioning pain neurons being killed artificially could allow beta cells to re-grow. I'm not in favor of "killing" anything inside me, generally, but if it works, why not? I'm curious why there aren't other pain meds that help diabetics. Generally speaking anti-inflammatory like ibuprofen or aspirin are seen as beneficial for type2s, but I'd like to find some other drugs to combine with verapamil's protective effect to stimulate beta cell growth. Like a 1-2 punch. Or more like a block, punch combo.

 

Any ideas? Let's put together a list of compounds that supposedly stimulate beta cell growth. I read somewhere that gastrin, the compound in prevacid, in theory should do that, but the recent studies showing no improvement after long-term use of prevacid + an immunosuppressant make me weary of going down that path.

 

You're definitely right about 24 hours worth of readings and that we shouldn't draw conclusions about positive/negative impacts. However, I have to remain conservative on insulin amounts (carb ratios) in case they do begin functioning more than just gradually. Here's a link to a compilation of type 1 cure tries. Vitamin D is on there, but I've been taking that for years and no difference noted. ;->

 

http://cureresearch4...01_archive.html



#15
feibelman

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The figure from the mouse study at this URL shows that the speed of BG reduction is indeed dose dependent. http://www.ncbi.nlm....4354/figure/F6/


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#16
feibelman

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I ran across this formula for converting mouse to human dosage equivalents. http://www.fasebj.or....expansion.html

 

Then cross referencing this table for Km Factors http://www.fasebj.or....expansion.html

 

We need to multiple the mouse dosage by 3/37 to get the human equivalent. 

 

This would give taking the high dose number 100mg/kg/day for the mouse and multiplieing by 3/37, we get 8.1 mg/kg/day for a human. So, for me at 77kg, this would equate to a 624mg/day dose. This is fantastic news because once titrated up to two 240mg ER tablets per day, I will be very close to the equivalent of the high dose given the to the mice.


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#17
Hoping4Cure

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Fantastic discovery! If we work together maybe we can find the right dosage and combination of drugs to take to cure ourselves.

 

At first blush, it looks like I'll need about the max (720-960 / day total) based on my weight to come close to the mouse dosage in the study. But, given that the rate of beta cell destruction or regeneration is somewhat less important than the fact that they are preserved, it should be OK and probably safer to regenerate my pancreas slowly due to taking less drugs.

 

The big question is whether the damaged pain neurons or auto-antibodies that continually attack my beta cells, are stronger than the protective effect of the verapamil at a specified dosage. So nothing significant might happen until I bypass a certain threshold of verapamil based on how strong my diabetes is. Does that make sense?

 

I'm fine with it taking 2x as long to cure myself, as long as I see some kind of upward trend. Later on I can decide if it's too slow and bump up the dose. Hopefully all we'll need if / when we get back close to full pancreas function, we can reduce the verapamil to a maintenance dose and eventually even wean ourselves off it until a real cure comes along.

 

I don't really think this is a real cure, unlike Dr Shalev, because the verapamil doesn't really address the cause of the attack, only one aspect of the mechanism of beta cell death. I would still consider myself diabetic if I had to keep taking verapamil to sustain insulin production, but it would be a heck of an improvement nonetheless, and a benefit to millions of people. (kids especially, I don't want anyone to live what I've lived through).

 

One thing's for sure, it's going to be tricky to score multiple Rx'es to fill out my meds. I mean, it was pretty easy convincing some random doc to give me 240/day, but going to 720/day is pretty extreme so I'll probably just score another script for 480 / day more and then fill it out at another pharmacy. The bigger question at that point is whether my insurance company is going to start asking question if I make claims on the same meds twice per month. Anyway, that's a problem for 6 months from now.


Edited by Hoping4Cure, 27 November 2014 - 04:04 PM.


#18
feibelman

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I agree completely with your analysis and think that 480mg/day maximum will do the trick (if verasamil will do it), but it may take longer. I agree that it isn't technically a cure because I'm sure the second we go off of it insulin dependence would come right back. I think you are also right about the insurance because they usually will not allow you to fill two prescriptions for the same class of drug for the same month/period. It is generic, so I guess the price may not be too bad if paying full price for the part the insurance will not cover. I have an apt. with my endo next month so I'm going to tell him what I'm doing (already) and ask him to change my captopril to 480mg/day of verasamil. I'm not sure if he will go for it or not. If the stuff works at any level that makes it worthwhile, we can find ways to get it I'm certain.

 

You logic about dosage makes perfect sense and might explain why some type 1 (although very few) may be taking Verasamil today and still be diabetic. The dosage required to offset the diabetes attack may differ by indivdual.



#19
Hoping4Cure

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Speaking of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas resulting in dead beta cells, I wonder if this discovery could also be a treatment or even cure for type 1, similar to the chili injection that kills the neurons outright:

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141126132639.htm



#20
feibelman

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Speaking of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas resulting in dead beta cells, I wonder if this discovery could also be a treatment or even cure for type 1, similar to the chili injection that kills the neurons outright:

 

http://www.scienceda...41126132639.htm

That's an interesting study and you may very well be right, but when do they expect that new drug invented by the NIH to be released? I lost patience and with the lack of any negative side-effects so far, I am starting at the 480mg/day level today. One 240mg AM and one 240mg PM. Hopefully, I can keep that dosage going. Who knows, with a little luck and the two of us working together we may just beat everyone to the cure (or better treatment) for type 1. Wouldn't that be incredible?

 

BTW - I have an apt with my endo on Monday morning. I'm going to tell him what I'm doing and ask for his help.


Edited by feibelman, 29 November 2014 - 06:40 AM.





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