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Standard distribution of A1c values across US population

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#1
miketurco

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By age group, race and sex. Study included 7200 people. Good charts.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/24246264

 


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#2
Seagal

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None of the A1c's were at 6 or below and none of the 2hr. marks were 150 or less.  This is an average of 7200 people.

 

Maybe I read it wrong :blink:


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#3
Bishop

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None of the A1c's were at 6 or below and none of the 2hr. marks were 150 or less.  This is an average of 7200 people.

 

Maybe I read it wrong :blink:

 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "none of the A1Cs were at 6 or below" - but in the paper, all of the A1C values in terms of the means are below 6.0.  For 18-39 year olds, the mean is 5.3, for 40-59 year olds, the mean is 5.6, and for folks over 60, the mean was 5.9.  See attachment.

Attached Files


2015.05.28  A1C at 13.2 (DX)
2015.08.28  A1C at  6.0 (3 months after DX)
2015.11.21  A1C at  5.6 (6 months after DX)
2016.02.16  A1C at  5.5 (9 months after DX)
2016.07.31  A1C at  5.7 (14 months after DX)
 
No medication of any kind, so far.  
Mild-to-moderate lifestyle changes tied to measurement, nutrition and physical activity.
All of the standard disclaimers apply - everyone is different, what works for Luke may not work for Leia, observing A leading to B doesn't prove anything, there is no cure, etc.
 
( blog should have most up to date details and thoughts )

#4
Bishop

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( nice that they included some semblance of a distribution with the percentiles vs. just a mean )


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2015.05.28  A1C at 13.2 (DX)
2015.08.28  A1C at  6.0 (3 months after DX)
2015.11.21  A1C at  5.6 (6 months after DX)
2016.02.16  A1C at  5.5 (9 months after DX)
2016.07.31  A1C at  5.7 (14 months after DX)
 
No medication of any kind, so far.  
Mild-to-moderate lifestyle changes tied to measurement, nutrition and physical activity.
All of the standard disclaimers apply - everyone is different, what works for Luke may not work for Leia, observing A leading to B doesn't prove anything, there is no cure, etc.
 
( blog should have most up to date details and thoughts )

#5
Seagal

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I was reading chart #2. 

 

The chart you posted is quite a bit more hopeful! 

 

Thanks Mike for the link.

 

Thanks Bishop for the clarification.


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dx 2003

type 2

vlc

livin' life!


#6
miketurco

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Segal, the high bumps on the charts (chart 2) is basically the average. So top-left chart, fasting bg's on average were at or under 100.


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#7
Oriana

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I didn't understand the charts either. I'd like to know if a peak of 140 is good or bad no matter how long it was after you ate



#8
Kit

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The charts don't say what is good or bad, just where people are based on various demographics.


10/6/2016 - A1C 5.2

Metformin ER 500mg x2, Daily Multi Vitamin, EstroSoy Plus x2

Dx T2 1/27/2014 - A1C 10.4

A1C History:  3/2016 - 5.1, 3/2015 - 5.1,  8/2014 - 5.2,  4/2014 - 6.7

 


#9
OldTech

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "none of the A1Cs were at 6 or below" - but in the paper, all of the A1C values in terms of the means are below 6.0.  For 18-39 year olds, the mean is 5.3, for 40-59 year olds, the mean is 5.6, and for folks over 60, the mean was 5.9.  See attachment.

 

Those stats indicate that more than 50% of the over 60 have pre-diabetes and that there is a steady progression towards metabolic syndrome as we age in our culture. It also shows that age has a strong association with metabolic syndrome. That, of course, does not imply age causes metabolic syndrome. 

 

These stats also show why it is difficult to statistically determine meaningful normal glucose levels using population statistics, but if I had to choose from this paper I would choose the 18-39-year-olds stats. Even so, I  suspect that quite a few of the younger group also already have the beginnings of metabolic syndrome, so those stats are bias upwards and that normal glucose levels should be even lower.


Edited by OldTech, 27 September 2016 - 02:19 PM.

--Chet

 

Type 2. Diagnosed 12/2013. Last A1c 4.5. Average postprandial 86. Very little variability. Very low carb and metformin (2x500mg). Two meals a day with no snacks. Last updated 2/18/2015.


#10
miketurco

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I didn't understand the charts either. I'd like to know if a peak of 140 is good or bad no matter how long it was after you ate

 

That's right on the edge. Based on my memory in terms of what I've read, levels over 140 cause damage, as do sustained levels of over 125. Dr. Bernstein claims to have seen peripheral neuropathy in his patients with A1c's as low as 5.


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#11
OldTech

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One paper I read said that even glucose levels of 110 was toxic to beta cells.


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--Chet

 

Type 2. Diagnosed 12/2013. Last A1c 4.5. Average postprandial 86. Very little variability. Very low carb and metformin (2x500mg). Two meals a day with no snacks. Last updated 2/18/2015.


#12
miketurco

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In terms this statistical study, you can look at averages across the country, etc. That doesn't define diabetes, though. I think the bottom line is twofold. First, a reasonable definition of "diabetes" is that your body isn't able to keep your blood sugars at a safe level. Second is that "unsafe levels" of blood sugar can and often will damage every part of your body -- sometimes at a devastating level. (Blindness, loss of limb, heart disease, etc.) What "safe levels" and "good goals" are is open to debate. The study itself only tells you where people are at, across the US, in terms of their numbers. 


  • OldTech likes this
A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#13
miketurco

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One paper I read said that even glucose levels of 110 was toxic to beta cells.

 

Bernstein seems to be the only one pushing hard for A1c's of less than 5. Just because he's the only one doesn't mean he's wrong. His numbers are what I'd like to have, and I hope to hit them eventually. Not sure that's even possible for me, but I have been making progress in that direction.


A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#14
JohnSchroeder

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awesome data. 


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Bolus: Humalog Pen 8-12 units

Basal: Levimir 32-34 units

March 2016: 6.2

June 2016: 5.9

October 2016: 6.6  Yuck! time to pay better attention

January 2017 6.0


#15
Oriana

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I ask bc I sort of fool myself bc a lot of my readings are peaking at 140 and I think 'oh thats fine maybe I dont have pre diabetes' but then i've heard people who really don't have it peak much lower than that.


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#16
samuraiguy

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One paper I read said that even glucose levels of 110 was toxic to beta cells.

I never go by these test, but actual results of large populations. As long as your A1C is under 6 your odds of developing diabetes complications by CDC statistics of patients requiring care for them is slim to none and slim left town. In fact incidences of complications have dropped by half since 1990, retinopathy by 65%, so if an A1C in the 5-6 range (according to the charts above over half the non-diabetic population resides in that range) were damaging at all there should be a huge uptick of complications instead of a dramatic drop (average A1C of diabetics dropped from 9 to 7.8 since 1990). Get your A1C as low as you are comfortable with, but if you want to avoid or stop complications going lower than 5 is not necessary as even half the non-diabetic whipper snappers (age 18-39) don't even go that low. For some people the stress of trying to go that low would most certainly be more damaging than slightly elevated BG levels.


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Dx T2 12/21/10 A1C 7.3 Random 278
Lost 175 pounds walking 10k steps per day and eating according to the DASH Diet Weight Loss Solution.
Diet, exercise plus Metformin 500 mg twice daily

 

5/13/15 A1C 5.3 Lab

8/11/15 A1C 5.5 Relion Home Kit (Meter 30 day average shows 5.4 so it's all good)

2-16-16 A1C 5.6 Lab

6-7-16 A1C 5.7 Lab

12-15-16 A1C 5.6 Lab

 

Goal: "Keep my A1C under 5.7".





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