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Carbs: Not a dietary requirement

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#1
miketurco

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You can't beat a quote like this: "Indeed, there is no clear requirement for dietary carbohydrates for human adults."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2129159/


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#2
NoraWI

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This particular article dates from 2004. How, in the face of knowledge like this being out there, can the ADA, the dietitians et al, still promote high carb diets to the newly diagnosed? It is almost, maybe not even *almost,* criminal! The state of our "medical knowledge and practice" is in its infancy!

Edited by NoraWI, 27 November 2016 - 07:44 AM.

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NoraWI
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#3
Gladtobehere

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If you think paleo, then it seems some carbs would be natural in the diet from plant sources mainly.  Things like fruits and nuts along with some edible roots and such.   You know ......the good carbs but only available in relatively small quantities.   The human machine has a wonderful ability to store carbs as fat to account for times of famine.  This ability came about for the times when fruits and nuts were not so easy to come by.

 

Now we can get twinkies or other high carb foods,whenever we like so if we over indulge we get fat.   There is never a famine!

 

Scientist may think that way but if their employer is a big food company the scientist won't be employed for long if they don't tow the company line.

 

Forget about them.......DO what you believe is right.


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"If it comes in a package BEWARE!"

 

"If it makes a health claim AVOID!" 


#4
samuraiguy

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There are scientific facts and then there is how people live their lives. Unfortunately less than 10% of people would be willing to give up carbs even if it meant their long term health. Everyday you are fighting your brain's desire to get glucose as fast as possible and thus it takes an intentional person to want to do what is necessary to stay in ketosis, less than 20% of people live intentional lives. I am not saying the ADA, dietitians and medical community are right, but from their perspective diabetes management is 90% on the patient so since they can not follow the patient home and make sure they are eating VLC they CYA by recommending carbs lower than what non-diabetics are recommended, but not so low their patients get frustrated and quit trying to control carbs all together.


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Dx T2 12/21/10 A1C 7.3 Random 278
Lost 175 pounds walking 10k steps per day and eating according to the DASH Diet Weight Loss Solution.
Diet, exercise plus Metformin 500 mg twice daily

 

5/13/15 A1C 5.3 Lab

8/11/15 A1C 5.5 Relion Home Kit (Meter 30 day average shows 5.4 so it's all good)

2-16-16 A1C 5.6 Lab

6-7-16 A1C 5.7 Lab

12-15-16 A1C 5.6 Lab

 

Goal: "Keep my A1C under 5.7".


#5
meyery2k

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samuraiguy - You hit that nail squarely on the head. 

 

I am often asked how I lost all the weight and get the "Yeah, buts..."

 

I explain that because of diabetes, I eliminated all carbs from my diet except for the ones in vegetables.  Frankly, while I am ecstatic about the weight loss, my primary goal is diabetes control.

 

Then it starts...

 

Yeah, but you need carbs to live (not true)

 

Yeah, but all that fat, you're gonna have a heart attack (Yes, I might, but that can happen to anyone)

 

Yeah, but your cholesterol must be terrible (It isn't.   Cholesterol would also appear to be a poor barometer of cardiopulmonary health too)

 

There is a lot of misinformation out there.  If I were a doctor I would recommend what we do since it works more often than not.  I suppose with all the resistance encountered with that advice, the next best answer would be to suggest they eat less carbs and get some benefit.

 

I do remember the hardest part of the mental game was figuring out what to eat in place of all the starches I used to eat.  It took time and persistence.


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#6
Kit

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I don't think the societies and doctors are all that innocent.  If that was the case, they wouldn't fight so hard against those who choose a lchf diet.

 

I take pictures of my food to help prove to my doctors that I not only eat vegetables, but eat more than they do.  They constantly freak out every time I tell them I average around 30g carbs a day.  And I get the same lectures over and over about how important it is to eat lots of fruit and whole grains, etc.

 

If they were really on the side of, we're trying to recommend what our patients will be willing to try instead of what diet we feel would be best for our patients, then I would expect that they would fight it less.

 

I keep getting doctors wanting to send me back to a dietician so I can be set straight on what a diabetic diet should be.  At least my new is ok with my number goals.

 

The only doctor I have who hasn't freaked out is my eye doctor, who is just thrilled with me and my choices.


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10/6/2016 - A1C 5.2

Metformin ER 500mg x2, Daily Multi Vitamin, EstroSoy Plus x2

Dx T2 1/27/2014 - A1C 10.4

A1C History:  3/2016 - 5.1, 3/2015 - 5.1,  8/2014 - 5.2,  4/2014 - 6.7

 


#7
meyery2k

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Kit-I should consider myself fortunate. My doctor backs my diet as long as I can maintain it over the long term.
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#8
Kit

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Before I realized a major jump in my numbers this time last year (fastings over 120) was related to hormones, I contacted my doctor for help.  The reply I got was, the ADA recommends numbers under 180 at 2 hours after meals and you are well within the recommended ranges so stop worrying.

 

When I brought up the subject in person I was told I was having higher numbers because I wasn't eating at least 45-60g of carbs per meal and that I needed to add more into my diet.


10/6/2016 - A1C 5.2

Metformin ER 500mg x2, Daily Multi Vitamin, EstroSoy Plus x2

Dx T2 1/27/2014 - A1C 10.4

A1C History:  3/2016 - 5.1, 3/2015 - 5.1,  8/2014 - 5.2,  4/2014 - 6.7

 


#9
miketurco

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For a while I thought of myself as "the consultant's consultant" because, for a while, all my clients were consultants. I've been thinking about going to school and becoming a dietician. Put some years of that under my belt and I could be "the dieticians dietician." Hmmm


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#10
meyery2k

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Before I realized a major jump in my numbers this time last year (fastings over 120) was related to hormones, I contacted my doctor for help.  The reply I got was, the ADA recommends numbers under 180 at 2 hours after meals and you are well within the recommended ranges so stop worrying.

 

When I brought up the subject in person I was told I was having higher numbers because I wasn't eating at least 45-60g of carbs per meal and that I needed to add more into my diet.

Crazy - Based on observation and anecdotes from others here that makes no sense to me at all.

 

I understand we need glucose to fuel our cells.  I also understand the process that having too much of it is damaging.  Why they would promote something that most readily produces it is something I just cannot wrap my head around.



#11
Kit

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Crazy - Based on observation and anecdotes from others here that makes no sense to me at all.

 

I understand we need glucose to fuel our cells.  I also understand the process that having too much of it is damaging.  Why they would promote something that most readily produces it is something I just cannot wrap my head around.

 

No, it doesn't make any sense at all, that is the most frustrating part.  If it wasn't for the fact that I need someone to write my metformin script, I would be very tempted to just not bother going anymore.  Well, and someone to order my labs so insurance will pay for them.  *sigh*

 

Oh, and you've got to love check list doctors.  Lets see, you're over 40 so you need to be on a statin.  I'd have you taking a baby asprin every morning but you're not 50 yet.  We really should have you on a beta blocker (while she looks at my chart to see my blood pressure had been 96/67).  Oh, you're having menopause and bad hot flashes?  Sorry, can't help you there.  I could write you a script for an SSRI (antidepressent).

 

We won't even get into whether or not I need metformin argument.


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10/6/2016 - A1C 5.2

Metformin ER 500mg x2, Daily Multi Vitamin, EstroSoy Plus x2

Dx T2 1/27/2014 - A1C 10.4

A1C History:  3/2016 - 5.1, 3/2015 - 5.1,  8/2014 - 5.2,  4/2014 - 6.7

 


#12
Fraser

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I finally found a running coach. Of course I went over medical issues in the first meeting.
I said
I was doing less than 40 carbs a day.
he is doing the Boston marathon, typically a major carb event.
Anyway he just looked at me and said, of course at 40 carbs you a minimizing your carb intake. Makes sense
He just wanted ,to make sure my carb intake is balanced with my running goals.
Makes sense to me

Edited by Fraser, 27 November 2016 - 10:29 PM.

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Dx 2009 A1c 12.0 fasting 325
10/2016 Lab test 5.6
01/2017Home test 5.5
02/2017Home test 4.9 (???)
03/2017 Lab Test 5.7
Diet and Exercise Only
No Diabetes Meds

#13
meyery2k

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Fraser - Congratulations on finally finding a running coach!

 

I know the answer is going to be test, exercise, test, eat, test, exercise, test, learn but this is my question.

 

Of all the exercise I enjoy cycling the most.  I am building up to cycle from Hilo to Pahoa and back over the course of a day.  Roughly a 40 mile ride round trip.  I intend to try and maintain a pace of 10 miles per hour.  I have done 18 miles at this pace.  I now know 2 things.  I can do this, eventually, and I need a little more time building up.

 

I would like to do this before summer 2017.

 

I was kind of hoping I could ride to Pahoa, enjoy a fish and chips lunch there (beer battered fried fish, potatoes, and cole slaw (likely made with sugar), and ride back.

 

Based on what happened Thanksgiving Day when I had stuffing, corn, bread, and potatoes, the cycling after the meal seemed to burn off the glucose.  After the ride I tested at 77.  I had my normal evening meal.  I tested the next morning in the mid 80's which is typical.

 

I did observe a brief spike to 170 just prior to starting my ride which was trending downward significantly when I tested right before starting (was 110 20 minutes later). 

 

I know you mention that you consume some carbs when doing a major run so any guidance on this would be appreciated.  I have not really exercised to the point where I need to even think about it but, with the cycling, it is possible I could need to think this through.

 

I have stopped taking Metformin almost 1 month ago so the liver damping from that is going to be a non-factor.


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#14
miketurco

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Drinking a lot of alcohol will bring your sugar down too. May be a little more difficult to get home but you get what you pay for.


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A1c: Nov 13, 12.7 (dx); Apr 14, 7.6; Feb 15, 6.1; May 15, 6.0; Sep 15, 6.2 and May 16, 5.8.
Drugs: Met ER, N, recently off R, Lisinopril, Atenolol + a few sups. Diet: low-cal/keto

#15
JanetP

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I hang out with a lot of people who are vegetarian and vegan,  If you want to get into heavy arguments about food, break out the bacon and eggs!!  They have no issues with alcohol, however.  ;)


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Janet

 

Those who deny the existence of dragons are frequently eaten by them.

 

 

 

 


#16
TX_Clint

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My favorite bar is just down stairs and long island iced tea is vegan. :) In my opinion they also have the best TexMex in Dallas. Can you say Alambre Camaron?

As to carbs I try to stay under 30g and my Doc is good with it. The hospital on the other hand has great food but a difficult time understanding low carb and not counting calories.


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DX - 08/1997 - A1c 10.4
Metformin 500x4
Jardiance 25
Levothroxine 137
Welchol 3.75
2012 A1c 10.4/6.2/5.7
2013 A1c 5.9/5.5/5.3/5.4
2014 A1c 5.5/5.4/5.8/6.1
2015 A1c 6.1,6.2,5.9
2016 A1c 5.9,5.8,5.6

2017 A1c 5.9


#17
Fraser

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I consume carbs when I do a long run, because I have tested and tend to drop to 70 or las during a run.
So yes test test and retest . Start out testing maybe every five miles . To see what your BG is doing.
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Dx 2009 A1c 12.0 fasting 325
10/2016 Lab test 5.6
01/2017Home test 5.5
02/2017Home test 4.9 (???)
03/2017 Lab Test 5.7
Diet and Exercise Only
No Diabetes Meds

#18
meyery2k

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I consume carbs when I do a long run, because I have tested and tend to drop to 70 or las during a run.
So yes test test and retest . Start out testing maybe every five miles . To see what your BG is doing.

Fraser - I love this advice!  Lol...

 

Thank you!

 

Drinking a lot of alcohol will bring your sugar down too. May be a little more difficult to get home but you get what you pay for.

Mike - I would hate trying to explain to my family how I pulled a DUI while on a bicycle ;)


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