[mex]

thanks for that hope. really appreciate it.

[AndreLaplume]

Ha...I guess just the meat would be better! After a year with 6 year olds' type one, my first joke...not so funny I guess.

I want to know:

1) Will this work for folks who have had type one for one or more years.

2) What exactly is this cure....I am confused...they injected a mouse with pepper and the diabetes went away.....what harm could come from trying that on a human now.

3) If Canada has success I'll move there rather than wait for the FDA to drag its feet....you already pay less for your perscription drugs any way.

4) I'd really like a definitive answer on this one. Does diabetes kill off islet production all together or not....you see where I am going here regarding a cure.

Originally Posted by mex

thanks for that hope. really appreciate it.

[E-NICE]

I think it worked only at the beginning stages. My endo told me a while ago that you dont show symptoms of type one until around 90% of your beta cells are gone. There has been some research that suggests that you make beta cells forever but that leads to other questions. Like why do type 2s eventually need insulin? Also if you make beta cells forever why do we type one's exist in the first place? Hope this could be of some help.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by E-NICE

There has been some research that suggests that you make beta cells forever but that leads to other questions. Like why do type 2s eventually need insulin? Also if you make beta cells forever why do we type one's exist in the first place? Hope this could be of some help.

the same research that showed that beta cells continue to be produced - even in people with type 1 for over 40 years ALSO proposed that that the cause of Diabetes was what was killing off the cells, if they could stop the killing off then the cells would proliferate ....

I dont have a link but I recall Joslin was involved in at least one part

[AndreLaplume]

I take it there is truly no real way of knowing whether stopping the attack would lead to the creation of new cells. So, if cell production is just about deminished by the time the disease is discovered, is this pepper cure not a cure at all since it won't work because by the time you find you need it, it is too late?

Originally Posted by Doug

the same research that showed that beta cells continue to be produced - even in people with type 1 for over 40 years ALSO proposed that that the cause of Diabetes was what was killing off the cells, if they could stop the killing off then the cells would proliferate ....

I dont have a link but I recall Joslin was involved in at least one part

[momtomadison]

My understanding is this:

The whole theory behind injecting the extract from the so-called hot peppers is to stop the nerve cells from acting defectively. Theoretically stopping the autoimmune attack/defective nerve cells simultaneously. Hence, the nerve cell disorder is the "REAL CULPRIT TO AUTOIMMUNITY." Get nerve cells under control- stop autoimmunity - start regeneration of islets- produce insulin again.

It all sounds good to mice, know the big test is in humans.

It is the whole FDA approval thing that I hate.

Give me a "waiver" I'll sign it!!

How harmful could it really be anyway?

This was my analysis of the report.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Sweetie

Hi! I think this is wonderful news - whether for newly diagnosed or all of us!

I am new here and have just found this forum for dibetics. This really looks like a great place and someplace I've been looking to find for years.

Welcome Sweetie. Hope you enjoy the show.

[Just_Plain_John]

Originally Posted by AndreLaplume

I take it there is truly no real way of knowing whether stopping the attack would lead to the creation of new cells. So, if cell production is just about deminished by the time the disease is discovered, is this pepper cure not a cure at all since it won't work because by the time you find you need it, it is too late?

No, I think you are mistaken. The pancreases keep trying to produce beta cells (insulin producers) but the nerve inflammation causes the new betas to be killed off. Once the inflammation is stopped with the capsaicin, the new betas get to work and make insulin, even in someone with D for a long time.

The trick will probably be getting the nerves to STAY uninflamed. I imagine that a shot for that nerve cluster is even harder than not bruising myself with a mealtime bolus... The technique of applying this medicine may take a little while, but the mechanism seems to be very promising.

If I remember right, this may also relate to multiple sclerosis - I'm not sure where I heard that part, though.

[E-NICE]

One question I have. This is very promising but with all the different incarnations of type one: Will this work for everbody?

They never said what made the nerve clusters inflamed in the first place.

[sbigelow]

Read this... Common Ground - January 2007 I don't agree with everything to author says but it is an interesting theory.

[It Ain't Over]

Originally Posted by singer

If I understand correctly, it will only help newly diagnosed patients, not those of us whose islet cell production is already destroyed.

Sing

The Faustman studies did find evidence to the contrary, look them up.
Both of these studies have made some mice very happy.

[Jak]

"August: The important question is: Who funded the research??

KickStart101: Most of the money donated comes from the Canadians. We
are a small population but we are also spunky and Very generous.

JaysonJayhawk: Like August said, I'm sure the investors are watching this carefully. A cure would mean a loss of hundreds, if not, thousands of jobs, in the diabetes care industry for Type 1 diabetes."


This research was supported by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the Alberta Heritage Foundation, Banting & Best Diabetes Centre, the Heart & Stroke Foundation of Ontario, the Canadian Arthritis Network, the Canadian MS Society and SickKids Foundation.

The only investors per se are the governments (federal/provincial) and individuals who donated to these various causes and/or charities.

Originally Posted by E-NICE

While this approach has me optimistic. I have one nagging question. What about the genetifc aspect of type one in humans? Even if you suppress the immune system and get the beta cells to regrow on a large enough basis, would that be permanent? The bad genes that got us in this mess are still there. Not to say Im a geneticist or anything like that, just something that came to mind.

Originally Posted by E-NICE

They never said what made the nerve clusters inflamed in the first place.

According to this research, the immune system will not be supressed: "Their conclusions upset conventional wisdom that Type 1 diabetes . . . was solely caused by auto-immune responses -- the body's immune system turning on itself . . . Diabetic mice became healthy virtually overnight after researchers injected a substance to counteract the effect of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas."

"Researchers . . . have found that diabetes is controlled by abnormalities in the . . . nerve endings in the pancreatic islet cells that produce insulin. This discovery . . . has led to new treatment strategies for diabetes, achieving reversal of the disease without severe, toxic immunosuppression."

As for the "bad" genes, they didn't get us into the mess. It's complicated, it's late, and I likely won't explain it well, but the genes themselves only make us susceptilbe to diabetes, they do not cause it. Diabetes still needs a trigger -- a virus, or whatever, that likely causes the inflammation that causes the immune attack.

If the inflammation can be kept under control, and/or if they can find a way to either get those nerve endings producing their missing enzyme/peptite that makes them "invite" the immune response, then a virtual "cure" is possible. See the following quote:

“We started to look at nervous system elements that seemed to play a role in Type 1 diabetes and found that specific sensory neurons are critical for islet immune attack in the pancreas,” said Dr. Hans Michael Dosch . . . “These nerves secrete insufficient neuropeptides which sustain normal islet function, creating a vicious circle of progressive islet stress.”

“The major discovery was that removal of sensory neurons expressing the receptor TRPV1 neurons . . . prevented islet cell inflammation and diabetes . . . Disease protection occurred despite the fact that autoimmunity continues in the animals.”

"Strikingly, injection of the neuropeptide substance P cleared islet inflammation in NOD mice within a day and independently normalized the elevated insulin resistance normally associated with the disease. The two effects synergized to reverse diabetes without severely toxic immunosuppression."

It's my understanding that "the neuropeptide substance P" is the capsaicin which was injected into these mice. This is not the same as the neuropeptide which is the second element in any eventual cure.

Whatever you do, don't try injecting capsaicin. I've done a bit of research and pure capsaicin diluted with water in the ratio of 1:100,000 is still hot enough to blister tongue and lips.

[KickStart101]

Originally Posted by Jak

"August: The important question is: Who funded the research??
KickStart101: Most of the money donated comes from the Canadians. We
are a small population but we are also spunky and Very generous.
JaysonJayhawk: Like August said, I'm sure the investors are watching this carefully. A cure would mean a loss of hundreds, if not, thousands of jobs, in the diabetes care industry for Type 1 diabetes."
This research was supported by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the Alberta Heritage Foundation, Banting & Best Diabetes Centre, the Heart & Stroke Foundation of Ontario, the Canadian Arthritis Network, the Canadian MS Society and SickKids Foundation.
The only investors per se are the governments (federal/provincial) and individuals who donated to these various causes and/or charities.

Yes, we are well aware, thanks. Among other charities we give
to 1 on that list.

I was speaking basics without getting political. The government
gets most of the money to give to researchers from us, the taxpayers.
It's the Canadians who do the fund raising and donating to make
up for the money the government keeps slashing out of hospitals,
etc. so they can put it where they want. The research is Great
but they put alot of that money where we don't want it to go.

No matter how you go around it, the government still gets most
of the money for research here, from us, the People.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by KickStart101

Yes, we are well aware, thanks. Among other charities we give
to 1 on that list.

I was speaking basics without getting political. The government
gets most of the money to give to researchers from us, the taxpayers.
It's the Canadians who do the fund raising and donating to make
up for the money the government keeps slashing out of hospitals,
etc. so they can put it where they want. The research is Great
but they put alot of that money where we don't want it to go.

No matter how you go around it, the government still gets most
of the money for research here, from us, the People.

I wasn't arguing that point per se, only adding pertinent information. If I were arguing, I would have pointed out that the taxes we pay are not paid "generously".

At any rate, the information I posted was to point out which groups had actually participated in the funding as well as mentioning that individuals contributed to those groups. The fact that the governments contributed is to their credits because, as you point out, they could have spent the money elsewhere.

I find it interesting that no charity connected with diabetes contributed. I suppose that was because the diabetes angle was discovered by accident. Hopefully that will now change.

Forgot to add:

It should be pointed out that drug companies and individuals who might have stood to financially profit from this research were not involved. The government, on the other hand, could save billions of dollars over the years if a viable cure is found, which is fine by me.

[KickStart101]

Originally Posted by Jak

I wasn't arguing that point per se, only adding pertinent information. If I were arguing, I would have pointed out that the taxes we pay are not paid "generously".

Naw, I wasn't arguing either, just making a point. Ha! That many
taxes...no. Definitely not given generously. I was talking about the
donations and fundraisers. That's done with generousity...and 10%
taxes would be fine with us also....or 8% like Alberta.

Originally Posted by Jak

I find it interesting that no charity connected with diabetes contributed. I suppose that was because the diabetes angle was discovered by accident. Hopefully that will now change.

Yes, you have a point there. You'd think one of them would be on the
list. Doesn't the JDRF help fund stem cell research though? I read too much...info gets overlaped sometimes.

Nice seeing you back Jak. Thanks again.